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Schefter just reported DJ Hayden taken to hospital
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And you're not worth a legitimate response. Ever. To add, this place would be significantly better w/ you not here.

These are the replies you deserve.


Just saw this now, funny how you steal my suggestion that this place would be better without you. I would post more if you weren't a member of this forum.

You are very simple minded. So soft.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and for the forum members worth discussing topics with:

Aso was a great a cover corner he could shut one side of the field down and was a good tackler, but our defenses were a mess and teams would throw else where and run all over the team. Woodson was also avoided by QB's created more takeaways, not with just int's, but he could force fumbles, was better in run support, and a great blitzing CB. His coverage skills were above average too and he came in his rookie year and contributed right away. 5 picks his rookie year. He had some injury concerns, but that happens.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the eight seasons Aso played here he accounted for 242 tackles, 2 sacks, 11 int's and 2 forced fumbles. He missed 6 games in his eight seasons. 62 passes defended. one recovered fumble and one TD.

Woodson played in Oakland for eight season and missed 22 games, but had over 370 tackles or so, had 5.5 sacks, forced 14 fumbles, and 17 int's. 83 passes defended. Had two defensive TD's. 5 fumble recoveries.

Both great corners, but Woodson brought much more to the team. Imagine his numbers is he didn't miss 22 games in eight seasons.
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 465
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aso's tackling skills have been greatly exaggerated. For such a big corner, he sure was prone to diving at guys' ankles. He'd lay a lick on someone every once in a while. But, on the whole, his tackling was not one of the stronger parts of his game.

He could play man press at RCB better than anyone in the league. Asking him to do anything more than that was, well, you saw what happened in Philly.

He was a one trick pony. It was a really good trick, but it was all he could do.
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daineraider


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4442
Location: Salt Lake City
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
And you're not worth a legitimate response. Ever. To add, this place would be significantly better w/ you not here.

These are the replies you deserve.


Just saw this now, funny how you steal my suggestion that this place would be better without you. I would post more if you weren't a member of this forum.

You are very simple minded. So soft.


You guys we don't need this crap in here. You have differing opinions. Agree to disagree and move on. No need to try and get each other to leave the forum. But if you keep going I'm sure you won't need any motivation to leave cuz you'll get banned with these type of posts.


On a side note DJ is a great player and I don't see his injury being a big deal down the road. He worked to hard to come all the way back to be a bust. His work ethic tells you what you need to know about the guy.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12317
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrapTakula wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
How did this turn into an aso vs woody debate ? Lol. Anyways for what it's worth I remember in 03 Minnesota came to Oakland and Woodson held a prime Randy Moss in check. 4 catches I believe always found that impressive.


LOL B/c we have nothing else to talk about Smile

Aso held numerous WRs to.... I don't even know. I just remember one year, I think he only had like 12 catches against him the entire season. I'd have to dig up the stats b/c that seems very low but I remember the number was stupid low. I think he only had like 33 targets that season also. If that isn't respect and production to match then I don't know what is.

OK so I went and looked it up to be accurate.

Here's the season recap:

Quote:
1. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 29 attempts, 4.97 YPA, 62.07 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Was this the best season every for a CB? Asomugha was only thrown at 29 times the entire season and allowed just 9 receptions. He allowed two catches (both to Tony Gonzalez) over an eight game span in the middle of the season. He allowed 144 yards receiving for the season, and 46 of those came on one play against the Chargers where he misjudged an underthrown pass to Vincent Jackson. If a CB has had a better season than this, I'd like to see the numbers.


Those numbers alone are just insane. There was no one better at the position than when he was w/ us. Period.


He certainly was awesome, but... Wasn't that the year that anyone could run on us and pass freely to the other side of the field? If I remember right no one bothered challenging Aso because they could beat us pretty easily without having to bother.


When was the last time people haven't been able to run all over us? LOL. But I do get it and that is a valid concern. My rebuttal is that we were still averaging 27 attempts per game which is still 432 attempts per season and he only saw 7% of passes all season. So, yes, while people could still run on us it's not like it was the only thing done all season. I mean, we're talking about not even allowing a catch 7/8 games in a row and the only person who could get one against him is arguably the greatest TE of all time.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:

I don't think you can play it that way if you're debating which player is better overall, which I thought we were doing. But even then, in that case I still take Woodson because he got more turnovers and was better at tackling and in run support.


If we're going by other teams, I'd take Woodson. I was strictly going by here b/c I don't feel Nnamdi was used correctly in Philly b/c he wasn't.

Again, the numbers are skewed here b/c Nnamdi had the respect of every coach in the NFL and majority of QBs and for good reason. Woodson had plenty more opportunities to make plays and I believe if Nnamdi were given those chances, he'd have more turnovers. Plus it took Nnamdi a couple years to get going while Woodson was great right off the bat. Then again, I put more emphasis on coverage b/c it is the primary job of that positon. You don't so obviously our opinions will differ and I have no problems w/ that.


Now I could be wrong, but IIRC didnt QBs shy away from Woodson quite a bit, even back in his Oakland days? I am fairly certain I remember QBs avoiding him but he still created turnovers in his limited chances. Again, could be wrong because it was forever ago.


They might have but it wasn't to the level they ignored Aso. Not even close.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Nobody wrote:
Aso's tackling skills have been greatly exaggerated. For such a big corner, he sure was prone to diving at guys' ankles. He'd lay a lick on someone every once in a while. But, on the whole, his tackling was not one of the stronger parts of his game.

He could play man press at RCB better than anyone in the league. Asking him to do anything more than that was, well, you saw what happened in Philly.

He was a one trick pony. It was a really good trick, but it was all he could do.


You're making it seem like the dude couldn't even tackle haha. Yeah, he wasn't the strongest much like all CBs but he was decent.
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles Woodson had some very ordinary years as a Raider. Not sure why people are remembering him as an elite cover guy, he really wasn't for a lot of his time here.
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Silver&Black88 wrote:
smokey1212 wrote:

Allen said he would play the hot hand, in what world is McFadden's hand hot?

He touched Dennis Allen's seat before the game.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12317
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
Charles Woodson had some very ordinary years as a Raider. Not sure why people are remembering him as an elite cover guy, he really wasn't for a lot of his time here.


I think people's schoolgirlness over him being a Raider again is really heightening his time here. You're very right though. Again, Woodson was one of my favorite players at the time but the dude wasn't exceptional majority of the time here..... if ever.

Wasn't his inability to be an "elite cover guy" part of the reason he was moved to FS?
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wasn't his inability to be an "elite cover guy" part of the reason he was moved to FS?


Or maybe his age, just like Rod Woodson. Maybe he has a lost a step or two. Look at his numbers while he was in Oakland, just an ordinary ALL-PRO.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6184
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
Wasn't his inability to be an "elite cover guy" part of the reason he was moved to FS?


Or maybe his age, just like Rod Woodson. Maybe he has a lost a step or two. Look at his numbers while he was in Oakland, just an ordinary ALL-PRO.


Weren't the Raiders discussing moving Woodson to FS near the end of his tenure in Oakland?
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
Wasn't his inability to be an "elite cover guy" part of the reason he was moved to FS?


Or maybe his age, just like Rod Woodson. Maybe he has a lost a step or two. Look at his numbers while he was in Oakland, just an ordinary ALL-PRO.


Weren't the Raiders discussing moving Woodson to FS near the end of his tenure in Oakland?


I thought I remembered that also at the old age of 29.
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
Wasn't his inability to be an "elite cover guy" part of the reason he was moved to FS?


Or maybe his age, just like Rod Woodson. Maybe he has a lost a step or two. Look at his numbers while he was in Oakland, just an ordinary ALL-PRO.


Numbers? We are talking ability to cover - that can't come out of the numbers.

So, so clueless.
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Silver&Black88 wrote:
smokey1212 wrote:

Allen said he would play the hot hand, in what world is McFadden's hand hot?

He touched Dennis Allen's seat before the game.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
Wasn't his inability to be an "elite cover guy" part of the reason he was moved to FS?


Or maybe his age, just like Rod Woodson. Maybe he has a lost a step or two. Look at his numbers while he was in Oakland, just an ordinary ALL-PRO.


Numbers? We are talking ability to cover - that can't come out of the numbers.

So, so clueless.


That's not even mentioning how Rod and Charles are still completely different situations/players. However, let's not act like Woody was some bum in coverage. He was good. Not as good as Nnamdi was (in man) but still very good. He did get a little of the Nnamdi treatment, but to a lesser degree. Regardless, he always had a knack for creating turnovers. Maybe thats why they considered moving him to FS; put him in position to make more plays and less avoidable.
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