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Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers

 
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 5279
Location: CenCal
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers Reply with quote

I thought it was time to re-evaluate this position on our team. We have brought in a plethora of young talent at this position over the last 3 seasons, and have compiled a promising group of talent there. But with so many potential players, there can only be room for so much. I wanted to get everyone's opinion and form an idea of what the core of the future at this position may look like on this team, knowing how it's becoming such a prominent bookend position in the NFL.

Players include(listed from a potential standpoint from my perspective):

1. Chandler Jones
2. Jamie Collins
3. Rob Ninkovich
4. Dont'a Hightower
5. Jake Bequette
6. Michael Buchanan
7. Jermaine Cunningham
9. Justin Francis

Which two players do you see becoming the most formidable, long-term bookends for us?

Who is the sleeper?

Which players will stick for the foreseeable future on the roster and provide depth?

How does the group look overall?
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 5279
Location: CenCal
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was sourly disappointed in how Bequette looked last season. He seemed overweight and lost at times in the preseason. But I recently went back to look at the tape, and I was again reminded of his great motor and bending ability. He had a good first step, and has surprising quickness around the edge. Looked at some interviews, and came away impressed with his character, and knack for details on the game. I thought he really reminded me of Jared Allen. And as a prospect, could/should become a premiere player on this team at his position. I think BB saw him as the next Vrabel, who Ninkovich hasn't supplanted to a sufficient level at this point, and probably never will. However, his rookie season totally threw us all off. And for some reason, has just been forgotten about after only one season. A season in which may have very well been a redshirt season. If he can show up with the game he did at Arkansas, I can really see him being a core player for us down the road. But I have been given the doubt.

Game tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dngISyxIfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGVlCJCSlqY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbp6uNblP3o

Interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLyneNVE4Jo
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Jason Vega? Also, I wouldn't put Hightower on this list. I think the edge guys will mostly be playing end in a 40 front, so it'll be Jones and Ninkovich short term and Buchanan taking over for Ninkovich long term if I had to guess, with Collins working in a hybrid role as a linebacker but rushing the edge regularly. Francis is a depth player, Cunningham is gone after this season (if not sooner), and Bequette is a big question mark at this point.
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PatriotsWin!


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 18410
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers Reply with quote

I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower


I really hope they don't waste Collins at 4-3 WILL.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower


I really hope they don't waste Collins at 4-3 WILL.

If they end up using him like a Von Miller or LT, why would that be a waste? I'd still prefer to move Hightower to the middle, have Mayo at the Will, and use Collins in a role somewhat similar to how Ninkovich was deployed before he moved to end.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower


I really hope they don't waste Collins at 4-3 WILL.

If they end up using him like a Von Miller or LT, why would that be a waste? I'd still prefer to move Hightower to the middle, have Mayo at the Will, and use Collins in a role somewhat similar to how Ninkovich was deployed before he moved to end.


Taylor was never used as a 4-3 WILL.

I don't see Belichick utilizing a player in the manner which Von Miller is used, though I guess it's possible. The way the 4-3 WILL has traditionally been used in Belichick's D is a waste of Collins' ability.
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 12496
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower


I really hope they don't waste Collins at 4-3 WILL.

If they end up using him like a Von Miller or LT, why would that be a waste? I'd still prefer to move Hightower to the middle, have Mayo at the Will, and use Collins in a role somewhat similar to how Ninkovich was deployed before he moved to end.

Isn't Miller the SOLB for Denver and Woodyard the WIL?

I'm interested in seeing Francis's growth. he was pretty mediocre in TC and looked like a way different player. i'm wondering if he's continued to improve very fast and can beat out Nink or even become a good subpackage player.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12351
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: Our Future At DE/OLB/Pass Rushers Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower


I really hope they don't waste Collins at 4-3 WILL.

If they end up using him like a Von Miller or LT, why would that be a waste? I'd still prefer to move Hightower to the middle, have Mayo at the Will, and use Collins in a role somewhat similar to how Ninkovich was deployed before he moved to end.


Taylor was never used as a 4-3 WILL.

I don't see Belichick utilizing a player in the manner which Von Miller is used, though I guess it's possible. The way the 4-3 WILL has traditionally been used in Belichick's D is a waste of Collins' ability.

Well, the original post only specified OLB. As for Taylor, he wasn't used as a 4-3 anything. He was mostly a right outside linebacker in the Giants' scheme, often acting as a de facto fourth down lineman even though he stood up most of the time. My point was more that they could use him all over the formation to create havoc, like Belichick did with Taylor and how Denver moves Miller around on passing downs. Will, Sam, who cares? It's only relevant to how the offense lines up anyway. Even in the current scheme, Mayo is largely the Will, but he does a lot more than that depending on the play. I don't think they're going to use Collins a la Derrick Brooks, if that's your fear.
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NinjaZX6R


Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 9142
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
I think our future front 7 is almost set


DE Chandler Jones
DT Not on roster (fill in Kelly)
DT Wilfork
DE Not on roster (fill in Ninkovich)

OLB Jamie Collins
MLB Jerrod Mayo (if Spikes leaves this year)
OLB Donta Hightower


I really hope they don't waste Collins at 4-3 WILL.

If they end up using him like a Von Miller or LT, why would that be a waste? I'd still prefer to move Hightower to the middle, have Mayo at the Will, and use Collins in a role somewhat similar to how Ninkovich was deployed before he moved to end.

Isn't Miller the SOLB for Denver and Woodyard the WIL?

I'm interested in seeing Francis's growth. he was pretty mediocre in TC and looked like a way different player. i'm wondering if he's continued to improve very fast and can beat out Nink or even become a good subpackage player.


Yeah. In a 4-3, he's the Sam. I've seen him play as a RDE and LDE in their 2-4-5 formations.
In their 4-3 formation, it's mostly an under set. Wolfe played a lot at the lde 5 tech spot w. Von next to him.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8611
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
What about Jason Vega?


The dude with 5 sacks in the CFL last year? I'm not sure he's the next coming of Cameron Wake.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler Jones says he's beefed up to 270 lbs, and feels great. I like it...
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