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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 46478
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAmPacman wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
What does a #1 pick play like? Laughing

An above average qb who is at least one of the top 10 qbs in the league. Bradford isn't even a top 20 qb Laughing


Bradford was a top 20 QB last year with the worst supporting cast in football.

The 10 QBs selected #1 overall prior to Bradford:
Matt Stafford
JaMarcus Russell
Alex Smith
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
David Carr
Mike Vick
Tim Couch
Peyton Manning
Drew Bledsoe

I'm going to say Bradford has played like a #1 overall pick at QB.

After hearing that line for the last couple years, you tend to get tired of it and you tend to research these things. #1 overall picks at QB don't have that strong of a track record of late...probably because they're going to the worst team in the NFL.

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning are the only two real success stories thus far.

Some of the other QBs had a couple strong years but were average or worse pretty much their entire career. And the others were just busts.

So I'd say Bradford has more than lived up to what a #1 overall QB is.
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rAmFan39


Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Posts: 956
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I normally don't post a lot. I mainly just enjoy reading everyone's opinions, but dang this guy is trolling hard. Laughing
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Ramsfan28


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAmPacman wrote:

lol just trying to make you Rams fans a little mad tbh Laughing

The Rams can have a good team if Sam Bradford actually stepped up and played like a number 1 overall pick.


I'm just making sure you don't go overboard with that, it's kinda my job Wink

jrry32 wrote:
I'm going to say Bradford has played like a #1 overall pick at QB.

After hearing that line for the last couple years, you tend to get tired of it and you tend to research these things. #1 overall picks at QB don't have that strong of a track record of late...probably because they're going to the worst team in the NFL.

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning are the only two real success stories thus far.


#1 picks have had a very strong track record as of late. However, I will say that the Mannings are the only one that have been consistently successful. I would say this track record is one that's very short lived. When guys like Luck, Newton, and Griffin come barreling out of the gate, the expectation for QB's is high. Bradford is expected to be in the same ballpark as Newton and Luck, whom both threw for over 4,000 yards, something Bradford has yet to accomplish. When you don't have much of a history, you either look very good or very average. Newton's 2nd year didn't turn out to be as good as his first, now all of the sudden people are saying Luck and Griffin are better than him despite having the best rookie season for a QB ever with only decent talent around him. Bradford won OROY with bottom tier talent, but his other seasons look very average, especially with more and more QB's throwing for 4,000+

Also, wins and losses have a lot to do with it too. People were on Alex Smith's case when the 49ers were losing. When they start winning, despite winning with either Kaep or Smith at the helm, suddenly he actually has value despite being declared a bust for the past 6 years.

Football fans are very temperamental people.
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Flatlyner


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAmPacman wrote:
Ramsfan28 wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:
The Cardinals will own the Rams next season. I find it hilarious that you guys think you match up well with them....


You are aware that the Rams went 2-0 against the Cardinals last season, right?

You are aware that the Cards have a completely different team this season, right?


You are aware the Rams also have new players and BEAT you two out of two times last year (yes, thats 100%). So, your statement that the cards will "own" the Rams next season is laughable. Maybe they will be competitive this year though... maybe.

If you think Palmer is going to be a your savior, then I just feel bad for you.
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The J.R.S.


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatlyner wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:
Ramsfan28 wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:
The Cardinals will own the Rams next season. I find it hilarious that you guys think you match up well with them....


You are aware that the Rams went 2-0 against the Cardinals last season, right?

You are aware that the Cards have a completely different team this season, right?


You are aware the Rams also have new players and BEAT you two out of two times last year (yes, thats 100%). So, your statement that the cards will "own" the Rams next season is laughable. Maybe they will be competitive this year though... maybe.

If you think Palmer is going to be a your savior, then I just feel bad for you.


The optimism in Arizona is apparently out of control. I'm counting our games against them as two easy wins on our schedule honestly.

Turnover prone QB, no running game, suspect o-line, and the worst defense in the division. I think Arizona will be drafting top 5 next March. The only thing Cardinal fans have to hang their hat on is that Bruce Arians is their head coach.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsfan28 wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:

lol just trying to make you Rams fans a little mad tbh Laughing

The Rams can have a good team if Sam Bradford actually stepped up and played like a number 1 overall pick.


I'm just making sure you don't go overboard with that, it's kinda my job Wink

jrry32 wrote:
I'm going to say Bradford has played like a #1 overall pick at QB.

After hearing that line for the last couple years, you tend to get tired of it and you tend to research these things. #1 overall picks at QB don't have that strong of a track record of late...probably because they're going to the worst team in the NFL.

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning are the only two real success stories thus far.


#1 picks have had a very strong track record as of late. However, I will say that the Mannings are the only one that have been consistently successful. I would say this track record is one that's very short lived. When guys like Luck, Newton, and Griffin come barreling out of the gate, the expectation for QB's is high. Bradford is expected to be in the same ballpark as Newton and Luck, whom both threw for over 4,000 yards, something Bradford has yet to accomplish. When you don't have much of a history, you either look very good or very average. Newton's 2nd year didn't turn out to be as good as his first, now all of the sudden people are saying Luck and Griffin are better than him despite having the best rookie season for a QB ever with only decent talent around him. Bradford won OROY with bottom tier talent, but his other seasons look very average, especially with more and more QB's throwing for 4,000+

Also, wins and losses have a lot to do with it too. People were on Alex Smith's case when the 49ers were losing. When they start winning, despite winning with either Kaep or Smith at the helm, suddenly he actually has value despite being declared a bust for the past 6 years.

Football fans are very temperamental people.


Andrew Luck had the same exact QB Rating as a rookie as Bradford did in 2010 as a rookie. Luck didn't come barreling out of the gates. ESPN spin job.

Newton did but his team hasn't had success...which, of course, people hold against him(when it's not really all that much his fault).

RGIII wasn't a #1 overall pick so he's not relevant to the discussion.

Throwing for 4000 yards is meaningless to me. If Bradford had attempted 650 passes last year, he would have thrown for 4000 yards. It's a volume stat.

Having broken down Sam's games on coach's film, he'll be just fine. We're getting talent around him and that'll make the difference. This is a team game. You want stats...you need to give your QB some help.
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StLunatic88


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always love that people forget that Sam got more wins in his rookie year than franchise had the 3 previous years combined. And in his first 3 years he has now won 15 games, while in the previous 4 years the Team only had 14.
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Ramsfan28


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Ramsfan28 wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:

lol just trying to make you Rams fans a little mad tbh Laughing

The Rams can have a good team if Sam Bradford actually stepped up and played like a number 1 overall pick.


I'm just making sure you don't go overboard with that, it's kinda my job Wink

jrry32 wrote:
I'm going to say Bradford has played like a #1 overall pick at QB.

After hearing that line for the last couple years, you tend to get tired of it and you tend to research these things. #1 overall picks at QB don't have that strong of a track record of late...probably because they're going to the worst team in the NFL.

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning are the only two real success stories thus far.


#1 picks have had a very strong track record as of late. However, I will say that the Mannings are the only one that have been consistently successful. I would say this track record is one that's very short lived. When guys like Luck, Newton, and Griffin come barreling out of the gate, the expectation for QB's is high. Bradford is expected to be in the same ballpark as Newton and Luck, whom both threw for over 4,000 yards, something Bradford has yet to accomplish. When you don't have much of a history, you either look very good or very average. Newton's 2nd year didn't turn out to be as good as his first, now all of the sudden people are saying Luck and Griffin are better than him despite having the best rookie season for a QB ever with only decent talent around him. Bradford won OROY with bottom tier talent, but his other seasons look very average, especially with more and more QB's throwing for 4,000+

Also, wins and losses have a lot to do with it too. People were on Alex Smith's case when the 49ers were losing. When they start winning, despite winning with either Kaep or Smith at the helm, suddenly he actually has value despite being declared a bust for the past 6 years.

Football fans are very temperamental people.


Andrew Luck had the same exact QB Rating as a rookie as Bradford did in 2010 as a rookie. Luck didn't come barreling out of the gates. ESPN spin job.

Newton did but his team hasn't had success...which, of course, people hold against him(when it's not really all that much his fault).

RGIII wasn't a #1 overall pick so he's not relevant to the discussion.

Throwing for 4000 yards is meaningless to me. If Bradford had attempted 650 passes last year, he would have thrown for 4000 yards. It's a volume stat.

Having broken down Sam's games on coach's film, he'll be just fine. We're getting talent around him and that'll make the difference. This is a team game. You want stats...you need to give your QB some help.


Yes, but he had better numbers, AND his team went to the playoffs the season after having the worst record in football (something Peyton and Eli didn't do). If that's not barreling out of the gate, then I don't know what is.

Just like Manning, Newton had success but his team didn't in their first year. Maybe "people" hold it against him, but the voters didn't when they voted him OROY.

Okay, Griffin was number 2, and a point I was trying to make didn't rely entirely on those selected number one, more like highly touted QB's coming out of college. Seeing as he's one of the most hyped players in the NFL and he's still new to the NFL I don't see him as entirely irrelevant.

Also, the yards per attempt was something a lot of people held against Bradford. He threw 590 times in his first year, almost as many times as Luck did. Yes, it is a volume stat, but Luck had higher numbers with that volume (though ironically both QB's had the exact same QB rating). It's not the most merit-worthy stat, but throwing for over 4000 yards isn't meaningless.

I know Bradford will be fine...he has been the least of my worries this entire offseason. For some reason, fans of other teams are more concerned about him than Rams fans, which is why I brought up this case in the first place. Fans that aren't in the know tend to look at things from a very broad point of view. We do this about players on other teams as well.
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S-jax39


Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol at the cardinals owning anyone next season. Laughing Their secondary was tore up, their line is still awful (with an even more immobile QB) and one of their best defensive players was suspended. I look forward to more Jenkins pick sixes.
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IAmPacman


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S-jax39 wrote:
lol at the cardinals owning anyone next season. Laughing Their secondary was tore up, their line is still awful (with an even more immobile QB) and one of their best defensive players was suspended. I look forward to more Jenkins pick sixes.

LMAO Our Secondary was torn up? Wtf are you talking about? We released Adrian Wilson and Rhodes saving us a ton of money. And then we lost Toler to Indy where they overpaid for him BIG TIME. Cards added Powers, Cason and traded Sherman, a FB who wil no longer use under Arians' system for Arenas who is a very solid nickel corner. Oh and we also drafted Matheiu as I think you know of. Sure our safeties are pretty weak but we're not in bad shape. I think the Cardinals have better corners this year and fell back a little with their safeties.

Also as I have stated hear already, Cards O-Line may still not be greatest but it definitely has improved. Adding Cooper was a great move since he has the potential to be an all-pro guard year after year. Levi Brown is also returning and will give the Cardinals more depth. Plus Massie and Potter stepped it up in the second half of the season and played better than decent actually.

And D Wash is our best defensive player. Losing him for 4 games was a big blow but I've been really impressed with what the Cardinals have done a nice job to fill the gap until he returns. They drafted ILB Kevin Minter and picked up Dansby who had over 100 tackles last season.

While things are far from perfect, the Cards are in better shape than you biased Rams think.
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IAmPacman


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsfan28 wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:

lol just trying to make you Rams fans a little mad tbh Laughing

The Rams can have a good team if Sam Bradford actually stepped up and played like a number 1 overall pick.


I'm just making sure you don't go overboard with that, it's kinda my job Wink

Don't worry I'm just having some fun with Rams fans. You won't have to worry about me Wink
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Flatlyner


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAmPacman wrote:
S-jax39 wrote:
lol at the cardinals owning anyone next season. Laughing Their secondary was tore up, their line is still awful (with an even more immobile QB) and one of their best defensive players was suspended. I look forward to more Jenkins pick sixes.

LMAO Our Secondary was torn up? Wtf are you talking about? We released Adrian Wilson and Rhodes saving us a ton of money. And then we lost Toler to Indy where they overpaid for him BIG TIME. Cards added Powers, Cason and traded Sherman, a FB who wil no longer use under Arians' system for Arenas who is a very solid nickel corner. Oh and we also drafted Matheiu as I think you know of. Sure our safeties are pretty weak but we're not in bad shape. I think the Cardinals have better corners this year and fell back a little with their safeties.

Also as I have stated hear already, Cards O-Line may still not be greatest but it definitely has improved. Adding Cooper was a great move since he has the potential to be an all-pro guard year after year. Levi Brown is also returning and will give the Cardinals more depth. Plus Massie and Potter stepped it up in the second half of the season and played better than decent actually.

And D Wash is our best defensive player. Losing him for 4 games was a big blow but I've been really impressed with what the Cardinals have done a nice job to fill the gap until he returns. They drafted ILB Kevin Minter and picked up Dansby who had over 100 tackles last season.

While things are far from perfect, the Cards are in better shape than you biased Rams think.


Ironic that you would call us the biased ones, coming onto our forum and proclaiming how dominating your team will be next season. Laughing
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Flatlyner


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAmPacman wrote:
Ramsfan28 wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:

lol just trying to make you Rams fans a little mad tbh Laughing

The Rams can have a good team if Sam Bradford actually stepped up and played like a number 1 overall pick.


I'm just making sure you don't go overboard with that, it's kinda my job Wink

Don't worry I'm just having some fun with Rams fans. You won't have to worry about me Wink


Or your team Laughing
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IAmPacman


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatlyner wrote:
IAmPacman wrote:
S-jax39 wrote:
lol at the cardinals owning anyone next season. Laughing Their secondary was tore up, their line is still awful (with an even more immobile QB) and one of their best defensive players was suspended. I look forward to more Jenkins pick sixes.

LMAO Our Secondary was torn up? Wtf are you talking about? We released Adrian Wilson and Rhodes saving us a ton of money. And then we lost Toler to Indy where they overpaid for him BIG TIME. Cards added Powers, Cason and traded Sherman, a FB who wil no longer use under Arians' system for Arenas who is a very solid nickel corner. Oh and we also drafted Matheiu as I think you know of. Sure our safeties are pretty weak but we're not in bad shape. I think the Cardinals have better corners this year and fell back a little with their safeties.

Also as I have stated hear already, Cards O-Line may still not be greatest but it definitely has improved. Adding Cooper was a great move since he has the potential to be an all-pro guard year after year. Levi Brown is also returning and will give the Cardinals more depth. Plus Massie and Potter stepped it up in the second half of the season and played better than decent actually.

And D Wash is our best defensive player. Losing him for 4 games was a big blow but I've been really impressed with what the Cardinals have done a nice job to fill the gap until he returns. They drafted ILB Kevin Minter and picked up Dansby who had over 100 tackles last season.

While things are far from perfect, the Cards are in better shape than you biased Rams think.


Ironic that you would call us the biased ones, coming onto our forum and proclaiming how dominating your team will be next season. Laughing

I think the Cardinals will go 9-7 next year at the best. Still better than the Rams though Wink
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsfan28 wrote:


Yes, but he had better numbers, AND his team went to the playoffs the season after having the worst record in football (something Peyton and Eli didn't do). If that's not barreling out of the gate, then I don't know what is.


His QB Rating was exactly the same as Sam's. He had more yards and TDs but also threw more ints and had a lower completion %.

As for the playoffs, we lost Week 17 of Sam's rookie year in a game that would have won the division.

Again, as rookie QBs, there wasn't that much difference between Bradford and Luck.

The 2009 Rams challenged the 2008 Lions as the worst team I've ever seen. That 2009 Rams had no talent. And Bradford still nearly took the 2010 Rams to the playoffs. Whereas the 2010 Colts was a playoff team and the 2009 Colts went to the Super Bowl.

Luck had a nice rookie year but it wasn't anything substantially better than what Bradford did. And Bradford did that with Spagnuolo at HC and an awful supporting cast.

Quote:
Just like Manning, Newton had success but his team didn't in their first year. Maybe "people" hold it against him, but the voters didn't when they voted him OROY.


OROY...interesting...I remember another QB who won the OROY. He plays for the Rams. No...not Kellen Clemens. Razz Wink

Quote:
Also, the yards per attempt was something a lot of people held against Bradford. He threw 590 times in his first year, almost as many times as Luck did. Yes, it is a volume stat, but Luck had higher numbers with that volume (though ironically both QB's had the exact same QB rating). It's not the most merit-worthy stat, but throwing for over 4000 yards isn't meaningless.


Bradford had nearly 40 less attempts. Yep, people did hold it against him...but I still blame Shurmur for that.

Quote:
I know Bradford will be fine...he has been the least of my worries this entire offseason. For some reason, fans of other teams are more concerned about him than Rams fans, which is why I brought up this case in the first place. Fans that aren't in the know tend to look at things from a very broad point of view. We do this about players on other teams as well.


Agreed. But the whole #1 pick comment still bothers me. It's like people expect Bradford to be a HOFer because he was a #1 pick when there really isn't a strong track record of success with #1 picks.
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