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This Year's Rod Streater
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 2169
Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are we really clowning our 6'3 230 RB for having no wiggle? lol some of yall are too much.. do you really want your bruiser to wiggle?lol Brandon Jacobs ring a bell? not me, i want him to hit holes and go north and south, get those tough 3-4 yards and wear down defenses...plus Murray is plenty agile to get the job done...DMC has no wiggle and he does pretty damn good(when healthy)

if Murray "wiggled" more oftern yall would say he dances around too much..i swear theres no pleasing some of you...as solid as a 6th round pick is gonna get and i see him winding up being our #2 back by seasons end...
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


from what i remember him at SC his freshmen year, is he had nice measurables and good hands and good body control, can go up and get balls..i think he can make this team over a guy like Criner...
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10112
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


from what i remember him at SC his freshmen year, is he had nice measurables and good hands and good body control, can go up and get balls..i think he can make this team over a guy like Criner...


going off what they did in college? what? Criner tripled Butlers collegiate production

So Criner doesn't tear it up his first year in the league and most of you want to give up on him? it takes most WR's 2-3 years to hit their stride, Criner, IMO, will surprise some people.
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oak42069


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 2114
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


from what i remember him at SC his freshmen year, is he had nice measurables and good hands and good body control, can go up and get balls..i think he can make this team over a guy like Criner...


going off what they did in college? what? Criner tripled Butlers collegiate production

So Criner doesn't tear it up his first year in the league and most of you want to give up on him? it takes most WR's 2-3 years to hit their stride, Criner, IMO, will surprise some people.


Laughing

guys a 5th round prospect, patience
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Yogi


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 1543
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gut feeling Brice Butler will eventually exceed expectations and become the redzone receiver we desperately need but don't have. Maybe nothing miraculous, just a solid player who will probably not get a lot a playing time at first because of his lack of blocking ability but will become a go-to guy with time. Will make us forget about DHB (for those who still remember him anyway).
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14488
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brice Butler is an athletic deep threat. Chances are he won't catch a pass this year though. For those of you thinking a player's rookie year is very telling, pencil him in as a wasted pick already.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Brice Butler is an athletic deep threat. Chances are he won't catch a pass this year though. For those of you thinking a player's rookie year is very telling, pencil him in as a wasted pick already.


+1. Many on here are overrating him. Streater saw more snaps as guys went down. With Ford healthy, Streater and Criner developing and the TE spot being more involved in the offense.

Pick reminds me of Schilens because he has the measurables and is a 7th round pick. Schilens only made the team his rookie year because there were so many injuries in camp that year.
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Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Brice Butler is an athletic deep threat. Chances are he won't catch a pass this year though. For those of you thinking a player's rookie year is very telling, pencil him in as a wasted pick already.


+1. Many on here are overrating him. Streater saw more snaps as guys went down. With Ford healthy, Streater and Criner developing and the TE spot being more involved in the offense.

Pick reminds me of Schilens because he has the measurables and is a 7th round pick. Schilens only made the team his rookie year because there were so many injuries in camp that year.


I am one of the guys in the corner of thinking of him as possibly emergent. However, I never said he's gonna be a world beater. Heck, Streater wouldn't have contributed nearly as much if we had a good WR corps last year. Think of the Green Bay model. A corps 4 to 5 deep, and the emergent players cycle through off the practice squad or bottom of the roster. 2 or 3 years into their career, not as rookies. Unless they are high round picks, and in that case they are kinda expected to be immediate contributors.


But I can't say he reminds me at all of Schilens. Schilens was one of those physical freak types Al loved, whose injury issues deeply marred his college career same as it did his pro career. Butler's non career in college is a definite question mark, but not because he is a physical prototype who can't stay healthy. My take is that the scouts saw a better player than his college production and draft slot who they hope will translate well to the pro game. I see the same thing, and we can only hope it pans out. Him showing up well in OTAs and rookie camps is not a sign of impending greatness. But it is a positive to build on. And if he builds on it consistently, every step of the way, he will eventually be emergent. It's a long road and we are at step 1 or close to it.
Now if you're angling on the "Schilens" ultra hype around this forum and then comparing it to current feelings on Butler, then you're onto something. Noone is asking for the ultra hype, but there are multiple dudes around here and all over Raider nation who just can't stop themselves..
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6495
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
I love this thread because of it's irony. We have spent this entire 2013 off-season talking up Streater like he is the second coming, just like we did Moore in 2012 and Murphy in 2009. Yet they all disappeared as quickly as the brightest shooting star appeared. None the less every off season we look to fall in love again forever only to be disappointed. Is Rod Streater the next Rod Smith? The odds say highly unlikely but here's to hoping.

I think you're reading a little too much into 'the next Rod Streater' Bagga! I didn't mean which UDFA is going to be an All Pro Laughing but it seems most years we have a suprise who shows potential and produces way above the expectations. Obviously Trevor Scott and Louis Murhpy haven't taken it any further and developed but that's not to say they couldn't a couple years ago. I think it's a good way to see how guys break down players and their skills and what people are looking for, what traits they think can be successful and so on......


I'm not referring to people who project these "out of nowhere" guys to become All-Pro. No one does that. I am referring to people who picks out this type of player EVERY year as a building block only to find themselves disappointed the following year and anoints the next "out of nowhere" guy like they are incapable of learning. (Shilens, Murphy, Moore, Ford are all examples)

Maybe I am reading into the question too much? I thought you were asking which later round draftee will exceed our expectations? However, if you asking "Which unlikely prospect will we over-project again?" in that case TE Mychal Rivera whose measureables and skill set are nearly identical to Brandon Meyers, adept receiver weak blocker who similarly will capitalize on playing in an offense with a weak WR corps that desperately needs an outlet.
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(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

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Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


What is out there on this guy, as far as stuff to watch, is very limited in a similar way to Stacy McGee. The difference I saw is that McGee looked totally average on that video. Nothing to suggest an emergent player in the NFL, not really. It's the same thing looking at McGuffie - once you get past the jukes you see a player with some serious issues translating to the pros..

Butler however, it's not so much how he looked, it was more how what he was doing and could do translated to a pro game. He looked fluid, athletic, body control, just a full host of pro athletic WR skills. It's no surprise at all to me that he showed up strong in the rookie camp, and it would not be a surprise to me to see him have a pro career with an actual ceiling with some space to it.

Other guys, it's just not as clear to me. Someone like Bass for instance, there's little way to know if he will translate because the competition he played against is so well below pro.
It seems to be easier in general with CBs and WRs, because you can see their individual skills more easily.


The thing about Brice Butler was San Diego State 65-70% running team ?

If so then maybe he reminds the Raiders brass as a Rod Streater type player because keep in mind Streater didn't put up big numbers at Temple either because they were a 65-70% running team.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod Streater Temple

2010: 30 REC - 481 - 4 TD's
2011: 19 REC - 401 - 3 TD's

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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22854
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
are we really clowning our 6'3 230 RB for having no wiggle? lol some of yall are too much.. do you really want your bruiser to wiggle?lol Brandon Jacobs ring a bell? not me, i want him to hit holes and go north and south, get those tough 3-4 yards and wear down defenses...plus Murray is plenty agile to get the job done...DMC has no wiggle and he does pretty damn good(when healthy)

if Murray "wiggled" more oftern yall would say he dances around too much..i swear theres no pleasing some of you...as solid as a 6th round pick is gonna get and i see him winding up being our #2 back by seasons end...


But Murray is not a bruiser. He doesn't finish runs with much authority. His game is speed, but he's not that elusive.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
are we really clowning our 6'3 230 RB for having no wiggle? lol some of yall are too much.. do you really want your bruiser to wiggle?lol Brandon Jacobs ring a bell? not me, i want him to hit holes and go north and south, get those tough 3-4 yards and wear down defenses...plus Murray is plenty agile to get the job done...DMC has no wiggle and he does pretty damn good(when healthy)

if Murray "wiggled" more oftern yall would say he dances around too much..i swear theres no pleasing some of you...as solid as a 6th round pick is gonna get and i see him winding up being our #2 back by seasons end...


But Murray is not a bruiser. He doesn't finish runs with much authority. His game is speed, but he's not that elusive.

+1
That doesn't mean Murray is hot garbage though. I think some of us take negative criticisms too harshly. This types of evaluations are not meant to rain on anyone's parade but taper unfounded projections and counter the poisoning effects of "kool-aid". The notion that Murray could take over for DMC in 2014 is a huge stretch to me at this moment. One HIGHLY underated factor and the number one hindrance to playing time for a young backs is pass pro. Lack of pass pro even keeps explosive backs off the field. Murray is an upgrade over Jones and that's all you can ask for from a 6th rounder. McKenzie is improving the roster slowly, through the draft, bottom up.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 2169
Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


from what i remember him at SC his freshmen year, is he had nice measurables and good hands and good body control, can go up and get balls..i think he can make this team over a guy like Criner...


going off what they did in college? what? Criner tripled Butlers collegiate production

So Criner doesn't tear it up his first year in the league and most of you want to give up on him? it takes most WR's 2-3 years to hit their stride, Criner, IMO, will surprise some people.


Streater didn't produce much in college either, and he tripled Criners numbers in their rookie years...not taking anything away from Criner, I actually like the kid, and hope we keep 6 WRs, I just wouldn't be surprised if Butler beat him out...
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
are we really clowning our 6'3 230 RB for having no wiggle? lol some of yall are too much.. do you really want your bruiser to wiggle?lol Brandon Jacobs ring a bell? not me, i want him to hit holes and go north and south, get those tough 3-4 yards and wear down defenses...plus Murray is plenty agile to get the job done...DMC has no wiggle and he does pretty damn good(when healthy)

if Murray "wiggled" more oftern yall would say he dances around too much..i swear theres no pleasing some of you...as solid as a 6th round pick is gonna get and i see him winding up being our #2 back by seasons end...


But Murray is not a bruiser. He doesn't finish runs with much authority. His game is speed, but he's not that elusive.


From what I seen, nothing live tbh...he's decisive and hits holes hard, if he can learn to run behind his pads at 230 he's going to be falling forward more often than not...
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14488
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
are we really clowning our 6'3 230 RB for having no wiggle? lol some of yall are too much.. do you really want your bruiser to wiggle?lol Brandon Jacobs ring a bell? not me, i want him to hit holes and go north and south, get those tough 3-4 yards and wear down defenses...plus Murray is plenty agile to get the job done...DMC has no wiggle and he does pretty damn good(when healthy)

if Murray "wiggled" more oftern yall would say he dances around too much..i swear theres no pleasing some of you...as solid as a 6th round pick is gonna get and i see him winding up being our #2 back by seasons end...


But Murray is not a bruiser. He doesn't finish runs with much authority. His game is speed, but he's not that elusive.


From what I seen, nothing live tbh...he's decisive and hits holes hard, if he can learn to run behind his pads at 230 he's going to be falling forward more often than not...


He's a 220+ back coming at you with 4.3 speed, the doesn't finish run with authority is just hearsay BS. I'm sure if you ask DBs who have tried to tackle him, they wouldn't agree with that. And if you watch his college tape, you can see he's not an easy take down.
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