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This Year's Rod Streater
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I don't see where you think Murray has 'swerve'. He has literally no wiggle to his game at all. Straight runner who doesn't push the pile and runs a little upright.

That said, he has the best chance to make an impact because RB is the easiest position to translate to the NFL. However, he will be the #3 back on the depth chart.

Kasa is a guy who could beat out a weak group of TEs and put some numbers up working underneath.


After watching Murray quite a bit last year i thought he had a smooth change of direction, not a juke or a sharp step like a Barry Sanders type for example, more like a Marcus Allen type glide where he moves his hips in anticipation of the defender and just does enough to get outside the defenders reach or forces an arm tackle that he can break. It's quite subtle in his running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE

@ 0:21 smooth step past LB
@ 1:15 beats S with sharp change of direction
@ 2:05 glides outside CB after standing him up
@ 4:02 great feet and smooth transition

As I say, he's not the most agile or dancing around type RB but he has got a subtle change of direction and change of pace which is enough as an arm tackle won't stop him. He's a poor mans Marcus Allen IMHO.


woah now Laughing lets not get too carried away. imo he looks like a dmac clone minus the wicked stiff arm
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I don't see where you think Murray has 'swerve'. He has literally no wiggle to his game at all. Straight runner who doesn't push the pile and runs a little upright.

That said, he has the best chance to make an impact because RB is the easiest position to translate to the NFL. However, he will be the #3 back on the depth chart.

Kasa is a guy who could beat out a weak group of TEs and put some numbers up working underneath.


After watching Murray quite a bit last year i thought he had a smooth change of direction, not a juke or a sharp step like a Barry Sanders type for example, more like a Marcus Allen type glide where he moves his hips in anticipation of the defender and just does enough to get outside the defenders reach or forces an arm tackle that he can break. It's quite subtle in his running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE

@ 0:21 smooth step past LB
@ 1:15 beats S with sharp change of direction
@ 2:05 glides outside CB after standing him up
@ 4:02 great feet and smooth transition

As I say, he's not the most agile or dancing around type RB but he has got a subtle change of direction and change of pace which is enough as an arm tackle won't stop him. He's a poor mans Marcus Allen IMHO.


woah now Laughing lets not get too carried away. imo he looks like a dmac clone minus the wicked stiff arm


Murray actually has a dece stiff arm.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I don't see where you think Murray has 'swerve'. He has literally no wiggle to his game at all. Straight runner who doesn't push the pile and runs a little upright.

That said, he has the best chance to make an impact because RB is the easiest position to translate to the NFL. However, he will be the #3 back on the depth chart.

Kasa is a guy who could beat out a weak group of TEs and put some numbers up working underneath.


After watching Murray quite a bit last year i thought he had a smooth change of direction, not a juke or a sharp step like a Barry Sanders type for example, more like a Marcus Allen type glide where he moves his hips in anticipation of the defender and just does enough to get outside the defenders reach or forces an arm tackle that he can break. It's quite subtle in his running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE

@ 0:21 smooth step past LB
@ 1:15 beats S with sharp change of direction
@ 2:05 glides outside CB after standing him up
@ 4:02 great feet and smooth transition

As I say, he's not the most agile or dancing around type RB but he has got a subtle change of direction and change of pace which is enough as an arm tackle won't stop him. He's a poor mans Marcus Allen IMHO.


woah now Laughing lets not get too carried away. imo he looks like a dmac clone minus the wicked stiff arm


Murray actually has a dece stiff arm.


decent and wicked are totally diff in my book tho Wink
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id say its better than decent. Isn't it nicknamed the "Tave Arm?"
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DarthDavis


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
Id say its better than decent. Isn't it nicknamed the "Tave Arm?"


i forget the game but i saw dmac stiff arm about 3 diff guys in one play. he has toothpicks for legs but dmac has maybe the craziest stiff arm in the nfl esp due to the length.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
However, I do have an "under the radar" guy (ie- someone drafted after the 3rd by Darbsk's criteria) that I believe actually has some sticking power, Tyler Wilson, the no nonsense transparent good ole' boy from the South. The Raiders have a horrible record of developing QBs. This will be different because Wilson comes to the Raiders as a nearly finished (as much as a rookie can be) product whose Senior was submarined by Petrino's firing. Raider Nation loves "swag", underdogs, tattoos, people with vices, the nonconformists & the unconventional. Wilson is anti-swag and continues to put in work that goes noticed. What Wilson does have is the backing of the FO that drafted him, which Pryor definitely doesn't have, and more importantly Wilson is known for toughness and moxie.

When the exhibition games start Wilson will quickly surpass Pryor if not in TC even. What will eventually win the hearts and minds of Raider Nation is Wilson's toughness, moxie and competitive nature that will be reminiscent of a poorman's Farve. Wilson will EARN everything he gets rather than be anointed. This kid knows how to stare down the barrel of a pass rush and Wilson will start a few games in 2013. However, I will make this distinction from the previous "out of no where" guys listed earlier, Wilson won't wilt away under the big lights. The only thing that may derail Wilson is a porous OL. Wilson knows how to take a ragdoll beating but he does have a history of concussions.


+1

Wilson is my favorite of all our picks and I have seriously high hopes for him.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
decent and wicked are totally diff in my book tho Wink


Can a guy you call a puss have a wicked stiff arm? Laughing


As for Wilson, he is an underdog to me. He gets a bad rep for his SR year, but he's still a solid QB to develop. The fact that half of Raider Nation doesn't have his back because he's a threat to TP adds to it too imo.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
I love this thread because of it's irony. We have spent this entire 2013 off-season talking up Streater like he is the second coming, just like we did Moore in 2012 and Murphy in 2009. Yet they all disappeared as quickly as the brightest shooting star appeared. None the less every off season we look to fall in love again forever only to be disappointed. Is Rod Streater the next Rod Smith? The odds say highly unlikely but here's to hoping.

I think you're reading a little too much into 'the next Rod Streater' Bagga! I didn't mean which UDFA is going to be an All Pro Laughing but it seems most years we have a suprise who shows potential and produces way above the expectations. Obviously Trevor Scott and Louis Murhpy haven't taken it any further and developed but that's not to say they couldn't a couple years ago. I think it's a good way to see how guys break down players and their skills and what people are looking for, what traits they think can be successful and so on......

Baggabonez wrote:
However, I do have an "under the radar" guy (ie- someone drafted after the 3rd by Darbsk's criteria) that I believe actually has some sticking power, Tyler Wilson, the no nonsense transparent good ole' boy from the South. The Raiders have a horrible record of developing QBs. This will be different because Wilson comes to the Raiders as a nearly finished (as much as a rookie can be) product whose Senior was submarined by Petrino's firing. Raider Nation loves "swag", underdogs, tattoos, people with vices, the nonconformists & the unconventional. Wilson is anti-swag and continues to put in work that goes noticed. What Wilson does have is the backing of the FO that drafted him, which Pryor definitely doesn't have, and more importantly Wilson is known for toughness and moxie.


Love that phrase Laughing , Veldheer, Wisniewski are also anti-swag IMO, no glitz or glamour but hard working 'blue collar' (I believe it used to be called) humble guys giving their all for the team. Totally agree on Tyler Wilson by the way, great value, great pick!
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I don't see where you think Murray has 'swerve'. He has literally no wiggle to his game at all. Straight runner who doesn't push the pile and runs a little upright.

That said, he has the best chance to make an impact because RB is the easiest position to translate to the NFL. However, he will be the #3 back on the depth chart.

Kasa is a guy who could beat out a weak group of TEs and put some numbers up working underneath.


After watching Murray quite a bit last year i thought he had a smooth change of direction, not a juke or a sharp step like a Barry Sanders type for example, more like a Marcus Allen type glide where he moves his hips in anticipation of the defender and just does enough to get outside the defenders reach or forces an arm tackle that he can break. It's quite subtle in his running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE

@ 0:21 smooth step past LB
@ 1:15 beats S with sharp change of direction
@ 2:05 glides outside CB after standing him up
@ 4:02 great feet and smooth transition

As I say, he's not the most agile or dancing around type RB but he has got a subtle change of direction and change of pace which is enough as an arm tackle won't stop him. He's a poor mans Marcus Allen IMHO.


woah now Laughing lets not get too carried away. imo he looks like a dmac clone minus the wicked stiff arm


That's what the 'poor mans' refers to!!! Obviously I was comparing vision, footwork and the way he beats defenders rather than the stellar career that Allen had. As other have said too, Murray does have a serious stiff arm and more power in his legs though.

This is Marcus Allen at USC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Il7yLdm40s
Noticeably similar to Murray IMO but with a lower centre of gravity which Murry will have to work on.
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ch8878


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.
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ch8878


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:


Conner "Vanilla Swag" Vernon.


If hes anything like college dude will be a huge signing.

Conner Vernon at Duke stats:

2009 - 55 REC for 746 yards and 3 TD's
2010 - 73 REC for 973 yards and 4 TD's
2011 - 70 REC for 956 yards and 5 TD's
2012 - 85 REC for 1074 yards and 8 TD's

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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I don't see where you think Murray has 'swerve'. He has literally no wiggle to his game at all. Straight runner who doesn't push the pile and runs a little upright.

That said, he has the best chance to make an impact because RB is the easiest position to translate to the NFL. However, he will be the #3 back on the depth chart.

Kasa is a guy who could beat out a weak group of TEs and put some numbers up working underneath.


After watching Murray quite a bit last year i thought he had a smooth change of direction, not a juke or a sharp step like a Barry Sanders type for example, more like a Marcus Allen type glide where he moves his hips in anticipation of the defender and just does enough to get outside the defenders reach or forces an arm tackle that he can break. It's quite subtle in his running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE

@ 0:21 smooth step past LB
@ 1:15 beats S with sharp change of direction
@ 2:05 glides outside CB after standing him up
@ 4:02 great feet and smooth transition

As I say, he's not the most agile or dancing around type RB but he has got a subtle change of direction and change of pace which is enough as an arm tackle won't stop him. He's a poor mans Marcus Allen IMHO.


woah now Laughing lets not get too carried away. imo he looks like a dmac clone minus the wicked stiff arm


That's what the 'poor mans' refers to!!! Obviously I was comparing vision, footwork and the way he beats defenders rather than the stellar career that Allen had. As other have said too, Murray does have a serious stiff arm and more power in his legs though.

This is Marcus Allen at USC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Il7yLdm40s
Noticeably similar to Murray IMO but with a lower centre of gravity which Murry will have to work on.


i know i know but allen is my fav rb of all time. dude was strait silk like gayle sayers and walter payton type silk. Murray is more corduroy imo. not to say murray cant improve. and can someone give me a link of one or 2 of murrays famous stiff arms i cant find any. btw murray does look to have a bigger legs than dmac lol which isnt very difficult.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i know i know but allen is my fav rb of all time. dude was strait silk like gayle sayers and walter payton type silk. Murray is more corduroy imo. not to say murray cant improve. and can someone give me a link of one or 2 of murrays famous stiff arms i cant find any. btw murray does look to have a bigger legs than dmac lol which isnt very difficult.


Was a huge Marcus Allen fan growing up and the first jersey I was ever given was Allen 32 in the mid 80s

A truly great multi-dimensional player, agree about the great fabrics comparison!!! Laughing Laughing
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


What is out there on this guy, as far as stuff to watch, is very limited in a similar way to Stacy McGee. The difference I saw is that McGee looked totally average on that video. Nothing to suggest an emergent player in the NFL, not really. It's the same thing looking at McGuffie - once you get past the jukes you see a player with some serious issues translating to the pros..

Butler however, it's not so much how he looked, it was more how what he was doing and could do translated to a pro game. He looked fluid, athletic, body control, just a full host of pro athletic WR skills. It's no surprise at all to me that he showed up strong in the rookie camp, and it would not be a surprise to me to see him have a pro career with an actual ceiling with some space to it.

Other guys, it's just not as clear to me. Someone like Bass for instance, there's little way to know if he will translate because the competition he played against is so well below pro.
It seems to be easier in general with CBs and WRs, because you can see their individual skills more easily.
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