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Giants WR Hakeem Nicks misses start of OTAs
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w4rrior723


Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 5103
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
w4rrior723 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
w4rrior723 wrote:
Cruz is a great player but he's simply not the #1 Nicks is. Hakeem has more reliable hands, is more physical, and is much more of a force in the redzone. Nicks is right behind Cruz in his best area which is YAC. I love both the players to death but gun to my head I'm taking Nicks. Doesn't matter what numbers you throw I've never missed a game either of them have played as a Giant and I can tell you Nicks is the better player.


I'm almost positive Cruz has more red zone TDs in the last two years than Nicks does.

Btw, I'm a Giants fan, I've seen all of their games too.


The difference is, Cruz has plays designed for him to get open whereas Nicks has plays designed for him to be in 1v1 coverage.


Shouldn't the aim be for them both to get open?


Yeah but my point is when Nicks is guarded one-on-one he is open... especially in the red-zone. That's their go to play in the corner of the endzone. Cruz has the ability to make plays on the ball when he needs to as well, but they don't design them for him because he's not as consistent at it so it takes more work for him to get open.
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?

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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16322305#16322305

This entire argument is ridiculous anyway. Regardless of how talented you feel Nicks is when healthy, he's been the most productive receiver for the Giants exactly once in his four years. And now we're asking how the Giants will replace him? Yet the receiver who broke the Giants rec. yards record and broke the record for long TD catches is just another guy? The leaps in logic here astound me.
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BEARS24


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 5051
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mich_fan20 wrote:
I'll take Nicks on the Bengals if they don't want him. Very Happy

DAT DUO!!!

My two favourite non-Bears (AJ)...

May have to be a Bengals fan from week 2-17 next year Razz
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16322305#16322305

This entire argument is ridiculous anyway. Regardless of how talented you feel Nicks is when healthy, he's been the most productive receiver for the Giants exactly once in his four years. And now we're asking how the Giants will replace him? Yet the receiver who broke the Giants rec. yards record and broke the record for long TD catches is just another guy? The leaps in logic here astound me.


There would be no leaps in logic if you actually read the posts. Who stated Cruz was "just another guy"? We have nothing but praise for Cruz and his ability. He is an amazing receiver. The fact here is we have two absolute gems and can only pay one of them. No one is downplaying Cruz or trying to take away from what he's accomplished. The fact that it's even debatable against Nicks is praise enough in of itself. So let's stop acting like any of us are in any way being derogatory to Cruz.

And again you keep heaping on this bulk stats as if they are directly comparable. A slot receiver is going to have a lot of YAC by default. It's the nature of the game. The Giants offensive scheme is geared towards getting him open in space and letting him run. Nicks is facing top CB's game in and game out. Nicks presence on the field allows Cruz to be used the way he is. Yes when Nicks went down Cruz filled in admirably. Then again so did Ramses and Randle. Our receiving corps is deep and talented. But Nicks is the only true #1 on the roster. Those other receiver can carry the load for a few games here and there but Nicks is the key. And no Randle cannot fill his role for an entire season. Not even close.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16322305#16322305

This entire argument is ridiculous anyway. Regardless of how talented you feel Nicks is when healthy, he's been the most productive receiver for the Giants exactly once in his four years. And now we're asking how the Giants will replace him? Yet the receiver who broke the Giants rec. yards record and broke the record for long TD catches is just another guy? The leaps in logic here astound me.


There would be no leaps in logic if you actually read the posts. Who stated Cruz was "just another guy"? We have nothing but praise for Cruz and his ability. He is an amazing receiver. The fact here is we have two absolute gems and can only pay one of them. No one is downplaying Cruz or trying to take away from what he's accomplished. The fact that it's even debatable against Nicks is praise enough in of itself. So let's stop acting like any of us are in any way being derogatory to Cruz.

And again you keep heaping on this bulk stats as if they are directly comparable. A slot receiver is going to have a lot of YAC by default. It's the nature of the game. The Giants offensive scheme is geared towards getting him open in space and letting him run. Nicks is facing top CB's game in and game out. Nicks presence on the field allows Cruz to be used the way he is. Yes when Nicks went down Cruz filled in admirably. Then again so did Ramses and Randle. Our receiving corps is deep and talented. But Nicks is the only true #1 on the roster. Those other receiver can carry the load for a few games here and there but Nicks is the key. And no Randle cannot fill his role for an entire season. Not even close.


And Cruz isn't?
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:

And Cruz isn't?


No. Not when he's in the slot
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NYGiantsman10


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?


Ruben Randle would have the best shot but he's not the physical, rugged playmaker Hakeem Nicks is.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

And Cruz isn't?


No. Not when he's in the slot


So when he faced Carlos Rogers in the NFC title game, that was what? An optical illusion?
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

And Cruz isn't?


No. Not when he's in the slot


So when he faced Carlos Rogers in the NFC title game, that was what? An optical illusion?


Quote:
Nicks is facing top CB's game in and game out.

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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

And Cruz isn't?


No. Not when he's in the slot


So when he faced Carlos Rogers in the NFC title game, that was what? An optical illusion?


First off, Carlos Rogers isn't a top CB.

Secondly, "week in and week out" =/= 1 game.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

And Cruz isn't?


No. Not when he's in the slot


So when he faced Carlos Rogers in the NFC title game, that was what? An optical illusion?


First off, Carlos Rogers isn't a top CB.

Secondly, "week in and week out" =/= 1 game.


name better NFC cornerbacks that year.

The point is their arguments are fallacious- Cruz was often lined up against a team's best CB over the course of last season and the season before.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:

The point is their arguments are fallacious- Cruz was often lined up against a team's best CB over the course of last season and the season before.


Sure when he lined up on the outside. Any Giants fan knows most of Cruz's catches came from the slot. Some teams may use a #1 corner to cover the slot receiver but it's rare. Still doesn't disprove that Nicks faces the top CB's game in and game out and Cruz doesn't.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

And Cruz isn't?


No. Not when he's in the slot


So when he faced Carlos Rogers in the NFC title game, that was what? An optical illusion?


First off, Carlos Rogers isn't a top CB.

Secondly, "week in and week out" =/= 1 game.


name better NFC cornerbacks that year.

The point is their arguments are fallacious- Cruz was often lined up against a team's best CB over the course of last season and the season before.


As Shockey said below, more time than not, teams don't put their #1 CBs in the slot. Cruz makes a living from his effectiveness in the slot.

Carlos Rogers had a good season -- that doesn't mean he's a top CB like you stated. As well, their arguments are not fallacious due to the statement above about Cruz in the slot. If you can find where he lined up against "top CBs" week in and week out, I'd like to see it. A few times a game? Of course. But as a big time slot WR, you don't face teams best CBs most of the time unless their #1 CB is a slot type guy as well (a Lardarius Webb type).
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GiantAl


Joined: 16 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
GiantAl wrote:
Wow, showing your ignorance here. You obviously don't know about any of their contract situations.


Seems like it's you're the one who's ignorant, if they don't deal with Nicks first like i suggested [who currently plays with 1-year left on his contract] and instead give Cruz a new deal [who also currently plays under a 1-year deal] that means that they would need to pay Nicks a lot more on his deal than what they gave Cruz because it was already stated they believe Nicks is their number 1 receiver and they view Cruz as more of a slot receiver.

Yes Cruz is actually holding out and Nicks *might* be holding out but if they reach a deal with Nicks first they won't pay Cruz more than him and Cruz knows it, it would actually help them.

From the OP of both threads:
Right now Nicks is due to make $2.725 million on the final year of his rookie contract while Cruz is due to make more [$2.879 million] under the 1-year first round tender contract he was assigned.

Pack4life7 wrote:
Side note- What's team do you root for Billy?


Pats, figured it was known.


Nicks wont get the big contract he wants right now because hes never been healthy for a full season.

Hes need to prove his worth this year.
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