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Crabtree Tears Achilles
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NINERFAN_4_LIFE


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s
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marvalus386


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crabtree will be missed but we will be ok. Q is good every year regardless of who throws the ball to him. I really like manningham when he comes back, and I believe one of our younger receivers will step up. Really like our team and backfield. Can't wait for week one.
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess we won't get to see Crabs terrorize Tramon Williams in week one..
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RamzFanz


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, that's bad news.

Looks like the Niners will be battling the Hawks for second in the NFC West.

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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RamzFanz wrote:
Man, that's bad news.

Looks like the Niners will be battling the Hawks for second in the NFC West.



Hmm... we'll be battling not to be second in the NFC West, while the Rams will still be battling the Cards.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
Guess we won't get to see Crabs terrorize Patrick Peterson this year..


FIFY Sad
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RamzFanz wrote:
Man, that's bad news.

Looks like the Niners will be battling the Hawks for second in the NFC West.


Other than trolling, is there a reason all of your posts thus far have come in the NFC West forums other than the Rams' forum?
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s


I dont see anyone discounting what Boldin brings or is capable of. Its a reality that he cannot take on the 100+ targets of Crabtree and still add what he was supposed to add to the offense. He would be taking on the role of 2 #1 WR's. He could take on Crabs targets, but then who takes on his targets? It's just not possible for him to take on 200+ targets(Boldin 112, Crabs 126) and then catch 140+ balls.(65 Boldin, 85 Crabs) It presents the same problem. Now he could be the guy to catch 85 balls no doubt. Then you have roughly 65 catches and 112 targets still needing to be accounted for. Who is in the position to do that? Noooobody!

Boldin was brought in to make the offense more potent and effective. Thats no longer the case considering the best receiving target on the team is going to miss a majority of the season

I think for all fans we hope that the guys in place will step up to produce enough to make the Crabtree vacancy not as noticeable, but the reality based on what we have seen and know is that it's unrealistic to expect that to happen.
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rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s


I dont see anyone discounting what Boldin brings or is capable of. Its a reality that he cannot take on the 100+ targets of Crabtree and still add what he was supposed to add to the offense. He would be taking on the role of 2 #1 WR's. He could take on Crabs targets, but then who takes on his targets? It's just not possible for him to take on 200+ targets(Boldin 112, Crabs 126) and then catch 140+ balls.(65 Boldin, 85 Crabs) It presents the same problem. Now he could be the guy to catch 85 balls no doubt. Then you have roughly 65 catches and 112 targets still needing to be accounted for. Who is in the position to do that? Noooobody!

Boldin was brought in to make the offense more potent and effective. Thats no longer the case considering the best receiving target on the team is going to miss a majority of the season

I think for all fans we hope that the guys in place will step up to produce enough to make the Crabtree vacancy not as noticeable, but the reality based on what we have seen and know is that it's unrealistic to expect that to happen.


+1. I don't see anyone discounting Boldin at all. I think everyone loved the pickup and everyone loves it that much more now.

But the idea that he can take Crabs' place and therefore we will not miss a beat is missing the point that we were supposed to have BOTH Crabtree and Boldin. Boldin was supposed to be that extra option for us that would make us quite a bit better. So Boldin is still Boldin, whom we had when we also had Crabtree, but we are still missing Crabtree. The starters will be Jenkins or Mario or KW or Patton and Boldin, instead of Crabtree and Boildin. It doesn't matter what else we get from our running game or our TEs. All that would just be compensating for only having one good WR instead of the two we were planning on. And it's hard to believe anyone here thinks we won't now be easier to defend than if Crabs were healthy. Admitting that doesn't take away from how happy we should all feel that we did pick up Boldin in the offseason.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s


I dont see anyone discounting what Boldin brings or is capable of. Its a reality that he cannot take on the 100+ targets of Crabtree and still add what he was supposed to add to the offense. He would be taking on the role of 2 #1 WR's. He could take on Crabs targets, but then who takes on his targets? It's just not possible for him to take on 200+ targets(Boldin 112, Crabs 126) and then catch 140+ balls.(65 Boldin, 85 Crabs) It presents the same problem. Now he could be the guy to catch 85 balls no doubt. Then you have roughly 65 catches and 112 targets still needing to be accounted for. Who is in the position to do that? Noooobody!

Boldin was brought in to make the offense more potent and effective. Thats no longer the case considering the best receiving target on the team is going to miss a majority of the season

I think for all fans we hope that the guys in place will step up to produce enough to make the Crabtree vacancy not as noticeable, but the reality based on what we have seen and know is that it's unrealistic to expect that to happen.


+1. I don't see anyone discounting Boldin at all. I think everyone loved the pickup and everyone loves it that much more now.

But the idea that he can take Crabs' place and therefore we will not miss a beat is missing the point that we were supposed to have BOTH Crabtree and Boldin. Boldin was supposed to be that extra option for us that would make us quite a bit better. So Boldin is still Boldin, whom we had when we also had Crabtree, but we are still missing Crabtree. The starters will be Jenkins or Mario or KW or Patton and Boldin, instead of Crabtree and Boildin. It doesn't matter what else we get from our running game or our TEs. All that would just be compensating for only having one good WR instead of the two we were planning on. And it's hard to believe anyone here thinks we won't now be easier to defend than if Crabs were healthy. Admitting that doesn't take away from how happy we should all feel that we did pick up Boldin in the offseason.



If we admit that Boldin can pretty much replace Crabtree's production (most of it, at least, I doubt he'd be 100% what Crabtree was for us last year), then in order to progress over what we had last year, we need to improve on Randy Moss' production. If we can get more than 28 catches for 434 yards and 3 TDs out of AJ Jenkins and Quinton Patton, and Mario and Kyle return to form and produce similarly, then we will have progressed. We won't have progressed as much as with Crabtree playing, but it's still progress.


Moss, Manningham, Williams and Jenkins totaled 80 catches for 1095 yards and 5 TDs, last year. I'm pretty confident AJJ/QP/Mario/KW can rival, if not exceed, those numbers. If Boldin can come close to matching Crabtree's numbers, we'll be fine. And when we get Crabtree back, we'll be that much better.
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s


I dont see anyone discounting what Boldin brings or is capable of. Its a reality that he cannot take on the 100+ targets of Crabtree and still add what he was supposed to add to the offense. He would be taking on the role of 2 #1 WR's. He could take on Crabs targets, but then who takes on his targets? It's just not possible for him to take on 200+ targets(Boldin 112, Crabs 126) and then catch 140+ balls.(65 Boldin, 85 Crabs) It presents the same problem. Now he could be the guy to catch 85 balls no doubt. Then you have roughly 65 catches and 112 targets still needing to be accounted for. Who is in the position to do that? Noooobody!

Boldin was brought in to make the offense more potent and effective. Thats no longer the case considering the best receiving target on the team is going to miss a majority of the season

I think for all fans we hope that the guys in place will step up to produce enough to make the Crabtree vacancy not as noticeable, but the reality based on what we have seen and know is that it's unrealistic to expect that to happen.


+1. I don't see anyone discounting Boldin at all. I think everyone loved the pickup and everyone loves it that much more now.

But the idea that he can take Crabs' place and therefore we will not miss a beat is missing the point that we were supposed to have BOTH Crabtree and Boldin. Boldin was supposed to be that extra option for us that would make us quite a bit better. So Boldin is still Boldin, whom we had when we also had Crabtree, but we are still missing Crabtree. The starters will be Jenkins or Mario or KW or Patton and Boldin, instead of Crabtree and Boildin. It doesn't matter what else we get from our running game or our TEs. All that would just be compensating for only having one good WR instead of the two we were planning on. And it's hard to believe anyone here thinks we won't now be easier to defend than if Crabs were healthy. Admitting that doesn't take away from how happy we should all feel that we did pick up Boldin in the offseason.



If we admit that Boldin can pretty much replace Crabtree's production (most of it, at least, I doubt he'd be 100% what Crabtree was for us last year), then in order to progress over what we had last year, we need to improve on Randy Moss' production. If we can get more than 28 catches for 434 yards and 3 TDs out of AJ Jenkins and Quinton Patton, and Mario and Kyle return to form and produce similarly, then we will have progressed. We won't have progressed as much as with Crabtree playing, but it's still progress.


Moss, Manningham, Williams and Jenkins totaled 80 catches for 1095 yards and 5 TDs, last year. I'm pretty confident AJJ/QP/Mario/KW can rival, if not exceed, those numbers. If Boldin can come close to matching Crabtree's numbers, we'll be fine. And when we get Crabtree back, we'll be that much better.


While I agree that statistically we need to just replace the Moss production to progress as an offense, it still isnt enough to replace what was expected with Crabtree and Boldin on the field. The Boldin pickup was to put the offense over and to take the pressure off of Crabs and VD and to have an actual red zone target. Teams are going to double VD. They will not double Boldin very often. It will make it easier for teams to take VD out of games and to gameplan for Kaep's running ability.

Crabtree being out effects all facets of the offense from the running game to third down conversions and so on and so forth. Thats what my viewpoint is. I still think this team will win the division and make a run, but I do not expect the offense or Kaep to be as effective without 15.

Unless they get significant production from the likes of Jenkins, Patton, KW,MArio.....and from what we have seen and what we know I wouldnt expect that from any of them.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s


I dont see anyone discounting what Boldin brings or is capable of. Its a reality that he cannot take on the 100+ targets of Crabtree and still add what he was supposed to add to the offense. He would be taking on the role of 2 #1 WR's. He could take on Crabs targets, but then who takes on his targets? It's just not possible for him to take on 200+ targets(Boldin 112, Crabs 126) and then catch 140+ balls.(65 Boldin, 85 Crabs) It presents the same problem. Now he could be the guy to catch 85 balls no doubt. Then you have roughly 65 catches and 112 targets still needing to be accounted for. Who is in the position to do that? Noooobody!

Boldin was brought in to make the offense more potent and effective. Thats no longer the case considering the best receiving target on the team is going to miss a majority of the season

I think for all fans we hope that the guys in place will step up to produce enough to make the Crabtree vacancy not as noticeable, but the reality based on what we have seen and know is that it's unrealistic to expect that to happen.


+1. I don't see anyone discounting Boldin at all. I think everyone loved the pickup and everyone loves it that much more now.

But the idea that he can take Crabs' place and therefore we will not miss a beat is missing the point that we were supposed to have BOTH Crabtree and Boldin. Boldin was supposed to be that extra option for us that would make us quite a bit better. So Boldin is still Boldin, whom we had when we also had Crabtree, but we are still missing Crabtree. The starters will be Jenkins or Mario or KW or Patton and Boldin, instead of Crabtree and Boildin. It doesn't matter what else we get from our running game or our TEs. All that would just be compensating for only having one good WR instead of the two we were planning on. And it's hard to believe anyone here thinks we won't now be easier to defend than if Crabs were healthy. Admitting that doesn't take away from how happy we should all feel that we did pick up Boldin in the offseason.



If we admit that Boldin can pretty much replace Crabtree's production (most of it, at least, I doubt he'd be 100% what Crabtree was for us last year), then in order to progress over what we had last year, we need to improve on Randy Moss' production. If we can get more than 28 catches for 434 yards and 3 TDs out of AJ Jenkins and Quinton Patton, and Mario and Kyle return to form and produce similarly, then we will have progressed. We won't have progressed as much as with Crabtree playing, but it's still progress.


Moss, Manningham, Williams and Jenkins totaled 80 catches for 1095 yards and 5 TDs, last year. I'm pretty confident AJJ/QP/Mario/KW can rival, if not exceed, those numbers. If Boldin can come close to matching Crabtree's numbers, we'll be fine. And when we get Crabtree back, we'll be that much better.


While I agree that statistically we need to just replace the Moss production to progress as an offense, it still isnt enough to replace what was expected with Crabtree and Boldin on the field. The Boldin pickup was to put the offense over and to take the pressure off of Crabs and VD and to have an actual red zone target. Teams are going to double VD. They will not double Boldin very often. It will make it easier for teams to take VD out of games and to gameplan for Kaep's running ability.

Crabtree being out effects all facets of the offense from the running game to third down conversions and so on and so forth. Thats what my viewpoint is. I still think this team will win the division and make a run, but I do not expect the offense or Kaep to be as effective without 15.

Unless they get significant production from the likes of Jenkins, Patton, KW,MArio.....and from what we have seen and what we know I wouldnt expect that from any of them.



But how do we even know the plan was for the offense to be more explosive through the air? Even with both Crabtree and Boldin on the field, I fully expected us to come out the same way we did the first two years under Harbaugh: heavy running for the first half of the year, with a more balanced attack over the last half and playoffs. I simply don't buy the "Boldin was supposed to take us to the next level" thing. We traded for him because he makes our roster stronger, and we frankly didn't have to pay much to get him. I don't think that the day the trade happened, Harbaugh called in all his offensive coaches and said: "Hey guys! We have Boldin, let's change the way we gameplan because we now have that guy that takes us to the next level!" See, that's what I don't buy. We would still have come out running 60% of the time over the first 10 weeks or so, Boldin or no Boldin, Crabtree or no Crabtree. Maybe you, and several others, have simply mismanaged your expectations. And it's normal. I did it last year too. After seeing VD in the playoffs, I thought he had finally gotten a solid grasp of the playbook and would be unstoppable, in Harbaugh's legendary TE-friendly offense. I even predicted he would be our leading receiver, over a 1000 yards and 10+ TDs. That's because I believed we'd continue where we had left off in the playoffs, and we'd come out throwing more. Then Harbaugh shocked me by running 60% of the time at a 160 yards per game clip. I had simply mismanaged my expectations. So, now, experience tells me I shouldn't expect the same explosiveness we had in the playoffs last year. I shouldn't expect VD to continue at the same clip he was going in the playoffs. I obviously can't expect Crabtree to do the same as well. What experience tells me I should expect is a healthy (or not, depending on the point of view) 60% of running plays. So, basically, I'm expecting more of the same, of what we've had over the last two years. Solid error-free football, with lots of running, some conservative playcalls, and the occasional sprinkling of more exotic plays (in 2011 we had some gimmicky plays to Staley and Sopoaga, in 2012 we incorporated running plays with Kap early on, and read-option when he became the starter). I don't believe the read-option will be our base offense. Not even the pistol formation as a base offense. We'll see a lot of it, but we'll also still see a lot of I-Formation, 2 TEs sets, and what we have grown accustomed to over the last two years.

Yes, the loss of Crabtree stunts the potential growth of our offense. No one can deny that. But no one can claim without a doubt that that growth was planned by our coaching staff. No one can say for sure we would have come out dropping 40 points on opponents just because we can. In fact, all the evidence from the past points at Harbaugh NOT doing that. And yes, Harbaugh did want to make the offense better by trading for Boldin to replace Moss. It still doesn't mean he wanted Boldin in order to achieve his vision of scoring 40 points week in and week out. He came cheap and was an incremental improvement on Randy Moss at this point. Somehow, an incremental improvement results in exponential expectations from fans... but really, I went through my exponential expectation phase last year, and I won't be sucked in again this year.

I still believe our offense will be better this year. Now, with the loss of Crabtree, I can't say it will be much better, but it should still be better. But I didn't expect it to be extravagantly better in the first place, so...
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

I agree with what you are saying I don't think you have a unrealistic outlook as much as you may be a bit too hopeful for the young WR on the roster, but these guys may shine when their number is called. It's all speculation for the most part.

My biggest concerns are third down and the fact as I stated above that while it's not a pass heavy offense it's a Crabtree heavy pass game. That obviously will have to change. The questions is do the guys behind him have the ability to pick up that slack.

Crabtree was 2:1 in receptions to the second highest total last season. 126 targets to 61 for VD. Also 2:1. There is going to 100ish targets to go around. The question becomes where do they go?


I think people are seriously under rating the value of Anquan Boldin. Like seriously. this guy set a record for fastest to 500 catches. He has been a probowler from the moment he was drafted. He certainly can handle over 100 targets, he has been about as steady of a WR there has been in the league in recent memory

the man played with his mouth wired shut. Says all you need to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsljtAL5_1s


I dont see anyone discounting what Boldin brings or is capable of. Its a reality that he cannot take on the 100+ targets of Crabtree and still add what he was supposed to add to the offense. He would be taking on the role of 2 #1 WR's. He could take on Crabs targets, but then who takes on his targets? It's just not possible for him to take on 200+ targets(Boldin 112, Crabs 126) and then catch 140+ balls.(65 Boldin, 85 Crabs) It presents the same problem. Now he could be the guy to catch 85 balls no doubt. Then you have roughly 65 catches and 112 targets still needing to be accounted for. Who is in the position to do that? Noooobody!

Boldin was brought in to make the offense more potent and effective. Thats no longer the case considering the best receiving target on the team is going to miss a majority of the season

I think for all fans we hope that the guys in place will step up to produce enough to make the Crabtree vacancy not as noticeable, but the reality based on what we have seen and know is that it's unrealistic to expect that to happen.


+1. I don't see anyone discounting Boldin at all. I think everyone loved the pickup and everyone loves it that much more now.

But the idea that he can take Crabs' place and therefore we will not miss a beat is missing the point that we were supposed to have BOTH Crabtree and Boldin. Boldin was supposed to be that extra option for us that would make us quite a bit better. So Boldin is still Boldin, whom we had when we also had Crabtree, but we are still missing Crabtree. The starters will be Jenkins or Mario or KW or Patton and Boldin, instead of Crabtree and Boildin. It doesn't matter what else we get from our running game or our TEs. All that would just be compensating for only having one good WR instead of the two we were planning on. And it's hard to believe anyone here thinks we won't now be easier to defend than if Crabs were healthy. Admitting that doesn't take away from how happy we should all feel that we did pick up Boldin in the offseason.



If we admit that Boldin can pretty much replace Crabtree's production (most of it, at least, I doubt he'd be 100% what Crabtree was for us last year), then in order to progress over what we had last year, we need to improve on Randy Moss' production. If we can get more than 28 catches for 434 yards and 3 TDs out of AJ Jenkins and Quinton Patton, and Mario and Kyle return to form and produce similarly, then we will have progressed. We won't have progressed as much as with Crabtree playing, but it's still progress.


Moss, Manningham, Williams and Jenkins totaled 80 catches for 1095 yards and 5 TDs, last year. I'm pretty confident AJJ/QP/Mario/KW can rival, if not exceed, those numbers. If Boldin can come close to matching Crabtree's numbers, we'll be fine. And when we get Crabtree back, we'll be that much better.


While I agree that statistically we need to just replace the Moss production to progress as an offense, it still isnt enough to replace what was expected with Crabtree and Boldin on the field. The Boldin pickup was to put the offense over and to take the pressure off of Crabs and VD and to have an actual red zone target. Teams are going to double VD. They will not double Boldin very often. It will make it easier for teams to take VD out of games and to gameplan for Kaep's running ability.

Crabtree being out effects all facets of the offense from the running game to third down conversions and so on and so forth. Thats what my viewpoint is. I still think this team will win the division and make a run, but I do not expect the offense or Kaep to be as effective without 15.

Unless they get significant production from the likes of Jenkins, Patton, KW,MArio.....and from what we have seen and what we know I wouldnt expect that from any of them.



But how do we even know the plan was for the offense to be more explosive through the air? Even with both Crabtree and Boldin on the field, I fully expected us to come out the same way we did the first two years under Harbaugh: heavy running for the first half of the year, with a more balanced attack over the last half and playoffs. I simply don't buy the "Boldin was supposed to take us to the next level" thing. We traded for him because he makes our roster stronger, and we frankly didn't have to pay much to get him. I don't think that the day the trade happened, Harbaugh called in all his offensive coaches and said: "Hey guys! We have Boldin, let's change the way we gameplan because we now have that guy that takes us to the next level!" See, that's what I don't buy. We would still have come out running 60% of the time over the first 10 weeks or so, Boldin or no Boldin, Crabtree or no Crabtree. Maybe you, and several others, have simply mismanaged your expectations. And it's normal. I did it last year too. After seeing VD in the playoffs, I thought he had finally gotten a solid grasp of the playbook and would be unstoppable, in Harbaugh's legendary TE-friendly offense. I even predicted he would be our leading receiver, over a 1000 yards and 10+ TDs. That's because I believed we'd continue where we had left off in the playoffs, and we'd come out throwing more. Then Harbaugh shocked me by running 60% of the time at a 160 yards per game clip. I had simply mismanaged my expectations. So, now, experience tells me I shouldn't expect the same explosiveness we had in the playoffs last year. I shouldn't expect VD to continue at the same clip he was going in the playoffs. I obviously can't expect Crabtree to do the same as well. What experience tells me I should expect is a healthy (or not, depending on the point of view) 60% of running plays. So, basically, I'm expecting more of the same, of what we've had over the last two years. Solid error-free football, with lots of running, some conservative playcalls, and the occasional sprinkling of more exotic plays (in 2011 we had some gimmicky plays to Staley and Sopoaga, in 2012 we incorporated running plays with Kap early on, and read-option when he became the starter). I don't believe the read-option will be our base offense. Not even the pistol formation as a base offense. We'll see a lot of it, but we'll also still see a lot of I-Formation, 2 TEs sets, and what we have grown accustomed to over the last two years.

Yes, the loss of Crabtree stunts the potential growth of our offense. No one can deny that. But no one can claim without a doubt that that growth was planned by our coaching staff. No one can say for sure we would have come out dropping 40 points on opponents just because we can. In fact, all the evidence from the past points at Harbaugh NOT doing that. And yes, Harbaugh did want to make the offense better by trading for Boldin to replace Moss. It still doesn't mean he wanted Boldin in order to achieve his vision of scoring 40 points week in and week out. He came cheap and was an incremental improvement on Randy Moss at this point. Somehow, an incremental improvement results in exponential expectations from fans... but really, I went through my exponential expectation phase last year, and I won't be sucked in again this year.

I still believe our offense will be better this year. Now, with the loss of Crabtree, I can't say it will be much better, but it should still be better. But I didn't expect it to be extravagantly better in the first place, so...


Boldin absolutely was brought to make this offense better. Sure he makes the roster stronger and no, I didnt expect the overall scheme to change, but Boldin was going to get his looks as is VD so by default those will come from somewhere and we have no reason to believe it was going to be from Crabtrees looks. I have clearly stated that before. Boldin was not brought in because he was a good option to battle it out for the 2nd WR position......he was brought in because he is a threat and he takes the pressure off of Crabtree to have to be the guy all the time. Crabs was targeted more and had more catches by an exponential amount. Boldin provides a real red zone threat who can block and play physical something that Mario Manningham, KW, Jenkins, Lockette, Ginn and now Patton are not.

It's not unrealistic to think that Boldin was brought in to have an impact. He isnt a low level move like acquiring a Ted Ginn was. He is an impact player still in his prime. You dont trade for an impact guy for them to not be an integral part of the offense.

I also dont see anyone saying the Niners are going to start putting up 40 burgers left and right now that Boldin is there. What I hear people saying is that Boldin will make the offense more efficient in areas in which they struggled. Red Zone effeciency and 3rd down effeciency.

I find it odd that you say that people expect too much with the acquisition of Boldin, yet you yourself seem to have lofty expectations for an offense who just lost their main passing weapon.

I expect this offense to take a step back early on, but I think they will develop by mid season into a solid unit. I think Kaep is that good and I think that the run game is that effective, but I would expect the pass game to take a while to catch up.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
Boldin absolutely was brought to make this offense better. Sure he makes the roster stronger and no, I didnt expect the overall scheme to change, but Boldin was going to get his looks as is VD so by default those will come from somewhere and we have no reason to believe it was going to be from Crabtrees looks. I have clearly stated that before. Boldin was not brought in because he was a good option to battle it out for the 2nd WR position......he was brought in because he is a threat and he takes the pressure off of Crabtree to have to be the guy all the time. Crabs was targeted more and had more catches by an exponential amount. Boldin provides a real red zone threat who can block and play physical something that Mario Manningham, KW, Jenkins, Lockette, Ginn and now Patton are not.

It's not unrealistic to think that Boldin was brought in to have an impact. He isnt a low level move like acquiring a Ted Ginn was. He is an impact player still in his prime. You dont trade for an impact guy for them to not be an integral part of the offense.

I also dont see anyone saying the Niners are going to start putting up 40 burgers left and right now that Boldin is there. What I hear people saying is that Boldin will make the offense more efficient in areas in which they struggled. Red Zone effeciency and 3rd down effeciency.

I find it odd that you say that people expect too much with the acquisition of Boldin, yet you yourself seem to have lofty expectations for an offense who just lost their main passing weapon.

I expect this offense to take a step back early on, but I think they will develop by mid season into a solid unit. I think Kaep is that good and I think that the run game is that effective, but I would expect the pass game to take a while to catch up.



A step back from our playoff offense, yes. But comparable to last year's week 1 offense in many ways. So in that sense, it's not exactly a step back, because even with the addition of Boldin, I think we would have reverted to that anyway. As I was saying, Boldin or no Boldin, Crabtree or no Crabtree, I only expected our offense to be marginally better early on, not because of Crabtree's injury, but by design, because of Harbaugh's approach.

I feel you and I aren't that far in what we're saying, but that's not the case of most fans, it seems. I just don't see the big step back many are seeing. The offense will be worse than many expected before Crabtree's injury. It is a step back, but not a big one in relation to last year's offense and what it was likely to be again this year.
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Boldin absolutely was brought to make this offense better. Sure he makes the roster stronger and no, I didnt expect the overall scheme to change, but Boldin was going to get his looks as is VD so by default those will come from somewhere and we have no reason to believe it was going to be from Crabtrees looks. I have clearly stated that before. Boldin was not brought in because he was a good option to battle it out for the 2nd WR position......he was brought in because he is a threat and he takes the pressure off of Crabtree to have to be the guy all the time. Crabs was targeted more and had more catches by an exponential amount. Boldin provides a real red zone threat who can block and play physical something that Mario Manningham, KW, Jenkins, Lockette, Ginn and now Patton are not.

It's not unrealistic to think that Boldin was brought in to have an impact. He isnt a low level move like acquiring a Ted Ginn was. He is an impact player still in his prime. You dont trade for an impact guy for them to not be an integral part of the offense.

I also dont see anyone saying the Niners are going to start putting up 40 burgers left and right now that Boldin is there. What I hear people saying is that Boldin will make the offense more efficient in areas in which they struggled. Red Zone effeciency and 3rd down effeciency.

I find it odd that you say that people expect too much with the acquisition of Boldin, yet you yourself seem to have lofty expectations for an offense who just lost their main passing weapon.

I expect this offense to take a step back early on, but I think they will develop by mid season into a solid unit. I think Kaep is that good and I think that the run game is that effective, but I would expect the pass game to take a while to catch up.



A step back from our playoff offense, yes. But comparable to last year's week 1 offense in many ways. So in that sense, it's not exactly a step back, because even with the addition of Boldin, I think we would have reverted to that anyway. As I was saying, Boldin or no Boldin, Crabtree or no Crabtree, I only expected our offense to be marginally better early on, not because of Crabtree's injury, but by design, because of Harbaugh's approach.

I feel you and I aren't that far in what we're saying, but that's not the case of most fans, it seems. I just don't see the big step back many are seeing. The offense will be worse than many expected before Crabtree's injury. It is a step back, but not a big one in relation to last year's offense and what it was likely to be again this year.



I think we mostly agree on that........I just think it is highly possible that this offense takes a while to get going. Maybe it looks more similar to the Alex led offense as opposed to a Kaep led offense with more time and a full offseason to gel.

The team and staff are too good for the team to fail, so they will continue to win, but its going to be a bit more of a challenge and might be a little more ugly til that chemistry is found with some other options.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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