Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

The Old Dog is learning new Tricks (Vick Ball Control)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AZ_Eaglesfan


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 5812
Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Phire wrote:
Vick's in the competition without a doubt. He's the favorite to win the job for the immediate season IMO.


Why do you think that? Foles is clearly the best fit for Chip's offense IMO. Vick can't do a few things. He can't make quick decisions. He doesn't anticipate his throws well and he is below average at reading defenses. He struggles with accuracy at times, and clearly needs to hold on to the ball in order to make plays. The only thing he brings to the table is that he can run the ball. But if Chip cared about that so much why did he use a 4th round pick on a QB like Sparkles?

Foles starter week 1. #ChampionChip


At some point you guys have to stop assuming your views are the same as Chips. If "Chip" didn't feel Vick could do all of those things in his offense he doesn't fight for Vick being part of the 2013 team. Now does that mean outright he is destined to be the starter, of course not. However Kelly had an easy out when he took over as HC and not one person would have thought twice had he not had Vick resigned/restructured and cut instead. That wasn't the case ,so it's blatantly obvious either A: He feels Vick can and will run his offense well or B: Felt he was the Coach that could fixed Mike Vick. Either way I have no doubt whatsoever Chip Kelly is the reason Vick is currently a Eagle, not management. It will ultimately be Kelly who determines whether he stays one in the future. So this idea Foles is the front runner, Foles is better at running "his" offense is nothing more then pure speculation because I have not heard Chip say one time who was or was not the front runner.


It is speculation, yes. But that is why I put IMO. I think my points are backed well though. I think Foles is a better QB and a better system fit. We will see what happens, but that is what I think.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nabbs4u


Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 23057
Location: North Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Phire wrote:
Vick's in the competition without a doubt. He's the favorite to win the job for the immediate season IMO.


Why do you think that? Foles is clearly the best fit for Chip's offense IMO. Vick can't do a few things. He can't make quick decisions. He doesn't anticipate his throws well and he is below average at reading defenses. He struggles with accuracy at times, and clearly needs to hold on to the ball in order to make plays. The only thing he brings to the table is that he can run the ball. But if Chip cared about that so much why did he use a 4th round pick on a QB like Sparkles?

Foles starter week 1. #ChampionChip


At some point you guys have to stop assuming your views are the same as Chips. If "Chip" didn't feel Vick could do all of those things in his offense he doesn't fight for Vick being part of the 2013 team. Now does that mean outright he is destined to be the starter, of course not. However Kelly had an easy out when he took over as HC and not one person would have thought twice had he not had Vick resigned/restructured and cut instead. That wasn't the case ,so it's blatantly obvious either A: He feels Vick can and will run his offense well or B: Felt he was the Coach that could fixed Mike Vick. Either way I have no doubt whatsoever Chip Kelly is the reason Vick is currently a Eagle, not management. It will ultimately be Kelly who determines whether he stays one in the future. So this idea Foles is the front runner, Foles is better at running "his" offense is nothing more then pure speculation because I have not heard Chip say one time who was or was not the front runner.


It is speculation, yes. But that is why I put IMO. I think my points are backed well though. I think Foles is a better QB and a better system fit. We will see what happens, rbut that is what I think.


I am not suggesting "your" opinion is wrong just the assumption you know what fits or doesn't fit Chip Kelly's "NFL" offense. Considering none of us truely know what that is until we see games. Saying Vick can not or would not be able to run that offense adequately and Foles could is wrong or speculation at best IMO. That's all.
_________________

Bird Watch:
Jeremy Maclin: 6 Gm/ 27 Rec/ 445 Yds/ 4 TD/ 16.5 YPC/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Phire


Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 49686
Location: #FSU #championchip #2012BirdsHoF #2012GoldStnd #YAKtoseIntolerant #Merica #TrollyRangers #Danes
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Lazor, our current QB coach, sat down with Spadaro (video available on PE.com) and while showering Vick with the utmost praise brought up that he actually worked with Vick in 2003 when they were both at Atlanta.

Did not know that personally.
_________________
theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nabbs4u


Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 23057
Location: North Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Bill Lazor, our current QB coach, sat down with Spadaro (video available on PE.com) and while showering Vick with the utmost praise brought up that he actually worked with Vick in 2003 when they were both at Atlanta.

Did not know that personally.


Laughing Literally just watched that video. Neither was I?
_________________

Bird Watch:
Jeremy Maclin: 6 Gm/ 27 Rec/ 445 Yds/ 4 TD/ 16.5 YPC/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 16419
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
At some point you guys have to stop assuming your views are the same as Chips. If "Chip" didn't feel Vick could do all of those things in his offense he doesn't fight for Vick being part of the 2013 team. Now does that mean outright he is destined to be the starter, of course not. However Kelly had an easy out when he took over as HC and not one person would have thought twice had he not had Vick resigned/restructured and cut instead. That wasn't the case ,so it's blatantly obvious either A: He feels Vick can and will run his offense well or B: Felt he was the Coach that could fixed Mike Vick. Either way I have no doubt whatsoever Chip Kelly is the reason Vick is currently a Eagle, not management. It will ultimately be Kelly who determines whether he stays one in the future. So this idea Foles is the front runner, Foles is better at running "his" offense is nothing more then pure speculation because I have not heard Chip say one time who was or was not the front runner.


How exactly did he fight for him? by voiding the last 4 years of his deal and limiting his salary from 16.5 million to 3.5 million this season in a one year contract?

There's also option C: He sees Vick as a valuable piece despite playing time. I just don't think Chip is stupid enough to throw away value and there is value in Vick's name and history on the field. Whether this value is realized to the Eagles as the Starter, a veteran back-up, or a trade piece is yet to be known.

I think Chip wanted to come in and talk to him/work with him/see what Vick could do with his own eyes before making a franchise altering decision like cutting the previous starting QB without a replacement plan in mind.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phire


Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 49686
Location: #FSU #championchip #2012BirdsHoF #2012GoldStnd #YAKtoseIntolerant #Merica #TrollyRangers #Danes
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that taking away Vick's years and money from his contract is not exactly fighting for him.
_________________
theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nlesthought


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 8416
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere that the deal was done before Chip. I might be wrong
_________________


psn: nlesthought l Peppers90 on the sig

Bird Watch '13 - Placekicker #6 - Alex 'the podiatrist' Henery.
22/27 LNG 51yds; 42 XPs; 1 KOR TD given up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phire


Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 49686
Location: #FSU #championchip #2012BirdsHoF #2012GoldStnd #YAKtoseIntolerant #Merica #TrollyRangers #Danes
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nlesthought wrote:
I read somewhere that the deal was done before Chip. I might be wrong

There were about 3 weeks of time between Kelly's hiring and Vick's contract, but I remember articles saying Howie's been working on the restructure for a long time before Chip was even hired. Certainly, Chip had a lot on his plate after being hired and he wasn't going to negotiate a NFL contract, something he has no experience in.
_________________
theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdman0069


Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6270
Location: Key West, FL
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Kelly is the quality coach we all think he is then he understands that he has no kind of idea what he has Vick until he sees him try and execute his scheme in game situations. Kelly doesn't seem like the kind of guy that is going to blindly fight for any player until he sees him execute his offense in meaningfull games.
_________________

Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.

Birdman, slowest to 10K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nabbs4u


Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 23057
Location: North Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
At some point you guys have to stop assuming your views are the same as Chips. If "Chip" didn't feel Vick could do all of those things in his offense he doesn't fight for Vick being part of the 2013 team. Now does that mean outright he is destined to be the starter, of course not. However Kelly had an easy out when he took over as HC and not one person would have thought twice had he not had Vick resigned/restructured and cut instead. That wasn't the case ,so it's blatantly obvious either A: He feels Vick can and will run his offense well or B: Felt he was the Coach that could fixed Mike Vick. Either way I have no doubt whatsoever Chip Kelly is the reason Vick is currently a Eagle, not management. It will ultimately be Kelly who determines whether he stays one in the future. So this idea Foles is the front runner, Foles is better at running "his" offense is nothing more then pure speculation because I have not heard Chip say one time who was or was not the front runner.


How exactly did he fight for him? by voiding the last 4 years of his deal and limiting his salary from 16.5 million to 3.5 million this season in a one year contract?

There's also option C: He sees Vick as a valuable piece despite playing time. I just don't think Chip is stupid enough to throw away value and there is value in Vick's name and history on the field. Whether this value is realized to the Eagles as the Starter, a veteran back-up, or a trade piece is yet to be known.

I think Chip wanted to come in and talk to him/work with him/see what Vick could do with his own eyes before making a franchise altering decision like cutting the previous starting QB without a replacement plan in mind.



So do you think the time period Chip turned down the Eagles for Oregon and Howie immediately attempting to restructure Vick is coincidence? I don't! I'm not suggesting he wanted Vick at his current contract or that he would refuse the opportunity "unless" but I do whole heartedly think in their discussions throughout his hiring Vick was a sticking point positive/negative between him and the organization. A situation where he wanted that Veteran QB to "possibly" (win the job of course) lead his team year one as he installs his system and has his ups/downs until he finds "his guy"! Do you guys honestly think if he didn't want to work with Vick , he gets that restructure? I'm not saying it is/was destined for Mike to be the starter in 13' but despite what many in this forum believe I truely think Kelly has full confidence with his coaching/system that it could be an ideal fit for his skill set and I'm not refering only to his running ability. Most NFL coaches start fresh when given the opportunity unless they inherit a Franchise QB. I mean hell look at Reid in KC. So when I say fight for Vick that is what I mean because if he didn't want him, he wouldn't be a a Eagle. I do agree about not cutting a player just because without getting your own opinion formed about a player after a sit down.
_________________

Bird Watch:
Jeremy Maclin: 6 Gm/ 27 Rec/ 445 Yds/ 4 TD/ 16.5 YPC/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 16419
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
How exactly did he fight for him? by voiding the last 4 years of his deal and limiting his salary from 16.5 million to 3.5 million this season in a one year contract?

There's also option C: He sees Vick as a valuable piece despite playing time. I just don't think Chip is stupid enough to throw away value and there is value in Vick's name and history on the field. Whether this value is realized to the Eagles as the Starter, a veteran back-up, or a trade piece is yet to be known.

I think Chip wanted to come in and talk to him/work with him/see what Vick could do with his own eyes before making a franchise altering decision like cutting the previous starting QB without a replacement plan in mind.



So do you think the time period Chip turned down the Eagles for Oregon and Howie immediately attempting to restructure Vick is coincidence? I don't! I'm not suggesting he wanted Vick at his current contract or that he would refuse the opportunity "unless" but I do whole heartedly think in their discussions throughout his hiring Vick was a sticking point positive/negative between him and the organization. A situation where he wanted that Veteran QB to "possibly" (win the job of course) lead his team year one as he installs his system and has his ups/downs until he finds "his guy"! Do you guys honestly think if he didn't want to work with Vick , he gets that restructure? I'm not saying it is/was destined for Mike to be the starter in 13' but despite what many in this forum believe I truely think Kelly has full confidence with his coaching/system that it could be an ideal fit for his skill set and I'm not refering only to his running ability. Most NFL coaches start fresh when given the opportunity unless they inherit a Franchise QB. I mean hell look at Reid in KC. So when I say fight for Vick that is what I mean because if he didn't want him, he wouldn't be a a Eagle. I do agree about not cutting a player just because without getting your own opinion formed about a player after a sit down.


Oh no, don't get me wrong i'm sure Vick was a large sticking point in the Chip Kelly to the Eagles negotiations, but thats another argument all together. It also comes back to my point about value and not having a replacement in mind. It would be a much better situation to step into the role with a veteran and a young player with a half dozen starts than to step into a situation where you only have the young player with a half a dozen starts and you're looking at a weak draft in front of you.

Chip Kelly has demonstrated thus far that he loves competition and people aren't just going to be handed a job anymore. I believe that if Vick wasnt here he would be forced to "hand" Foles the starting job pending a rookie draft pick lighting the world on fire (again in a very weak QB draft) and that isn't the way he wanted to start his tenure because if Foles wasn't able to pick up the system he'd be what I like to call SOL in his first year which is not the way you want to start, especially in Philly.

That said I think it is probably Foles' job to lose based on his skillsets and what is required of our QBs.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdman0069


Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6270
Location: Key West, FL
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By no means would I, or have I, supported Vick. That being said, what exactly has Foles proven he does better then Vick other then ball security, ie.. Vick's fumbling problem?
To say Foles is a better fit at this point is a bit ridicules since no one really knows what Foles is capable of.
A lot of people "think" Foles can be better, including me, but the truth is Foles has shown nothing that would lead anyone to believe he can be better then Vick over the course of 16 games.
I hope Foles wins the job only because Vick has consistantly fallin short of expectations over the course of his career and nothing could happen at this point in his career that would lead me to believe he could finally put it all together at his age.
_________________

Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.

Birdman, slowest to 10K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nabbs4u


Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 23057
Location: North Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
By no means would I, or have I, supported Vick. That being said, what exactly has Foles proven he does better then Vick other then ball security, ie.. Vick's fumbling problem?
To say Foles is a better fit at this point is a bit ridicules since no one really knows what Foles is capable of.
A lot of people "think" Foles can be better, including me, but the truth is Foles has shown nothing that would lead anyone to believe he can be better then Vick over the course of 16 games.
I hope Foles wins the job only because Vick has consistantly fallin short of expectations over the course of his career and nothing could happen at this point in his career that would lead me to believe he could finally put it all together at his age.


Absolutely nothing but the fact his name is not Mike Vick. I agree with everything you said with the exception of the notion Foles is any better at ball security in his limited playing time then Vick. Why people forget, dismiss, plain out ignore because he was a rookie his 5 INT and 8 FB's (like Vick not all lost) in 7 games is beyond me. I truely would love for Foles to somehow manage to become a Big Ben/Flacco type QB with his size. I'm just not of the opinion right now that is in the cards for him. If he wins the job outright I'll put full support behind him as the Starter and wait for him to earn my respect. Difference being there are those who without a doubt won't do the same "If" Vick does ,just because. Guess we'll see?
_________________

Bird Watch:
Jeremy Maclin: 6 Gm/ 27 Rec/ 445 Yds/ 4 TD/ 16.5 YPC/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Withmy89vision


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 3597
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vick is terrible. He used to make these dumb mistakes but make huge plays to make up for it. If you turn the ball over more than you score, you are a huge detriment to the team. Last year he was so ridiculously bad it was terrible to watch. Teams have figured out Vick, he hasn't figured out basic fundamentals of football. I honestly wish we would go with Foles/Dixon/Barkley as our QBs, and I don't like Dixon. Maybe someone better than Dixon gets cut. Or at least someone with more potential down the road.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25542
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Withmy89vision wrote:
Vick is terrible. He used to make these dumb mistakes but make huge plays to make up for it. If you turn the ball over more than you score, you are a huge detriment to the team. Last year he was so ridiculously bad it was terrible to watch. Teams have figured out Vick, he hasn't figured out basic fundamentals of football. I honestly wish we would go with Foles/Dixon/Barkley as our QBs, and I don't like Dixon. Maybe someone better than Dixon gets cut. Or at least someone with more potential down the road.


This says pretty much all you need to know about Philly fans and Mike Vick. Dennis Dixon is literally worse at every single component of playing QB than Mike Vick.
_________________
johndeere1707 wrote:

Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group