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The Old Dog is learning new Tricks (Vick Ball Control)
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TheRealMcCoy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnygunnz wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
STFU Vick, no one cares.


Seriously. No one else ever told him the proper way to carry a ball? I mean, Andy may not have been the best coach to ever coach the game, but I'm sure he tried to coach Vick on the proper way to run with the ball. This isn't some new technology that Chip has come up with...


its the smoothies bro, im telling you
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Jeezla


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice story Mike. Let us know when he teaches you how to read a defense.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnygunnz wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
STFU Vick, no one cares.


Seriously. No one else ever told him the proper way to carry a ball? I mean, Andy may not have been the best coach to ever coach the game, but I'm sure he tried to coach Vick on the proper way to run with the ball. This isn't some new technology that Chip has come up with...


"but he made me put my finger here doe"... like "ohhh ok Mike"... Rolling Eyes

and agreed about Andy, i am sure he drilled it in his head a 100000000000 times... Mikes to natural on the field tho, hes always going to have that school yard feel-instincts. He can practice one way practice one way, but then when the heat is on and hes under center with pressure in his face, he will be Mike Vick again, hes to old to change and doesnt have the personality to change, so outside of a miracle-lighting strike-rewiring of brain chemistry kinda intervention, it will never ever ever ever ever happen...

Kinne>>>> Vick
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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was a very interesting article on Vick vs Foles. Had some good data on why Vick is a bad fit for Chip's offense.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/5/22/4353134/philadelphia-eagles-quarterbacks-sack-responsibility-vick-foles

Quote:
According to this data, not only was Vick responsible for more sacks than Foles was in 2012, but he was also among the highest in the league in this category. It should be noted that Vick's sample size was a little larger than his counterpart, but the data seems to match the eye test here. It's clear that Vick was guilty of holding onto the ball too long and is responsible for a number of sacks he takes.


We all know that Chip HATES sacks. He also predicates his hurry up offense on the ability of the QB to quickly get the ball into the hands of his playmakers very quickly. Vick has always held onto the ball to make plays, he has never been able to make quick decisions. Why do people think that he fits Chip's offense? Only because he can still run?

The reality is that Vick is not a good fit for this offense. Foles has already played in a hurry up, quick decision offense in college so this is literally the perfect offense for him. I expect Foles to be starting week 1 for us, and hopefully Vick stays on the sideline all year.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
The reality is that Vick is not a good fit for this offense. Foles has already played in a hurry up, quick decision offense in college so this is literally the perfect offense for him. I expect Foles to be starting week 1 for us, and hopefully Vick stays on the sideline all year.


Not a bad article. I think the problem with it is that we're not looking for our QBs to excel after holding onto the ball for 4 seconds but rather make smarter and quicker decisions to get rid of the ball before then.

I think the two big attributes needed to be the starter here will be reading the defense and accuracy, we'll see who wins out but I think Vick is a little behind in those categories.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
I think the two big attributes needed to be the starter here will be reading the defense and accuracy, we'll see who wins out but I think Vick is a little behind in those categories.
The funny thing is, even the biggest Vick homers can't provide any evidence of him excelling in either of those areas. I have more faith in a 2nd year Foles to handle those responsibilities.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles_808 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
I think the two big attributes needed to be the starter here will be reading the defense and accuracy, we'll see who wins out but I think Vick is a little behind in those categories.
The funny thing is, even the biggest Vick homers can't provide any evidence of him excelling in either of those areas. I have more faith in a 2nd year Foles to handle those responsibilities.


I'm of the (maybe larger minority than I think) opinion that the starters job is actually between Foles and Barkley this season because of what is required by Chip Kelly.

I think what will happen is that Foles will be given every chance to succeed but if Barkley impresses in camp and we come out of the gate slowly Barkley will get his shot. I think Vick is kept for the "veteran back-up" on a relatively cheap contract and is extremely movable if someone on another team goes down in TC. Chip will get his "franchise QB" in the next draft.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
I think the two big attributes needed to be the starter here will be reading the defense and accuracy, we'll see who wins out but I think Vick is a little behind in those categories.
The funny thing is, even the biggest Vick homers can't provide any evidence of him excelling in either of those areas. I have more faith in a 2nd year Foles to handle those responsibilities.


I'm of the (maybe larger minority than I think) opinion that the starters job is actually between Foles and Barkley this season because of what is required by Chip Kelly.

I think what will happen is that Foles will be given every chance to succeed but if Barkley impresses in camp and we come out of the gate slowly Barkley will get his shot. I think Vick is kept for the "veteran back-up" on a relatively cheap contract and is extremely movable if someone on another team goes down in TC. Chip will get his "franchise QB" in the next draft.


If Vick is not starting week one he will be cut. They are not paying him his extra 3.5m bonus (7m total without incentives) to be the 3rd string QB you guys are dreaming. If indeed Foles somehow beats him out during the preseason ,he will he cut. Just not going to happen IMO until/if a injury occurs. Barkley won't see a single snap in the regular season unless both Foles and Vick are injured or the Eagles are up 40 and want to give him some reps.!
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
I think the two big attributes needed to be the starter here will be reading the defense and accuracy, we'll see who wins out but I think Vick is a little behind in those categories.
The funny thing is, even the biggest Vick homers can't provide any evidence of him excelling in either of those areas. I have more faith in a 2nd year Foles to handle those responsibilities.


I'm of the (maybe larger minority than I think) opinion that the starters job is actually between Foles and Barkley this season because of what is required by Chip Kelly.

I think what will happen is that Foles will be given every chance to succeed but if Barkley impresses in camp and we come out of the gate slowly Barkley will get his shot. I think Vick is kept for the "veteran back-up" on a relatively cheap contract and is extremely movable if someone on another team goes down in TC. Chip will get his "franchise QB" in the next draft.


If Vick is not starting week one he will be cut. They are not paying him his extra 3.5m bonus (7m total without incentives) to be the 3rd string QB you guys are dreaming. If indeed Foles somehow beats him out during the preseason ,he will he cut. Just not going to happen IMO until/if a injury occurs. Barkley won't see a single snap in the regular season unless both Foles and Vick are injured or the Eagles are up 40 and want to give him some reps.!


I really have a feeling they are showing him as a potential starter to keep his value high in a trade scenario.

Also I hate to bust the "salary cap" bubble but I have a feeling that Chip doesn't really care. We're currently 20 Mil under the cap (Minus a little bit for the still unsigned rookies) and I don't believe that money will be a motivating factor on what is best for the team. I think Chip would be willing to bite the bullet on that 3.5 Mil roster bonus to keep Vick on the roster "just in case".

Granted this is Kelly's first season so we don't really know what will happen but that is my best guess.
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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got to agree with Nabbs on this one, as much as I don't like Vick, it would be asinine to think he isn't in the QB competition, otherwise he wouldn't agree to a new deal.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vick's in the competition without a doubt. He's the favorite to win the job for the immediate season IMO.
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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Vick's in the competition without a doubt. He's the favorite to win the job for the immediate season IMO.


Why do you think that? Foles is clearly the best fit for Chip's offense IMO. Vick can't do a few things. He can't make quick decisions. He doesn't anticipate his throws well and he is below average at reading defenses. He struggles with accuracy at times, and clearly needs to hold on to the ball in order to make plays. The only thing he brings to the table is that he can run the ball. But if Chip cared about that so much why did he use a 4th round pick on a QB like Sparkles?

Foles starter week 1. #ChampionChip
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because Vicks going to be better than Foles in all those things with a red jersey on.

AND he's going to be one of the fastest guys on the field. Vick only needs to win the day during practice, which he can and will do.

Foles will only win if Vick severely screws up.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Phire wrote:
Vick's in the competition without a doubt. He's the favorite to win the job for the immediate season IMO.


Why do you think that? Foles is clearly the best fit for Chip's offense IMO. Vick can't do a few things. He can't make quick decisions. He doesn't anticipate his throws well and he is below average at reading defenses. He struggles with accuracy at times, and clearly needs to hold on to the ball in order to make plays. The only thing he brings to the table is that he can run the ball. But if Chip cared about that so much why did he use a 4th round pick on a QB like Sparkles?

Foles starter week 1. #ChampionChip


At some point you guys have to stop assuming your views are the same as Chips. If "Chip" didn't feel Vick could do all of those things in his offense he doesn't fight for Vick being part of the 2013 team. Now does that mean outright he is destined to be the starter, of course not. However Kelly had an easy out when he took over as HC and not one person would have thought twice had he not had Vick resigned/restructured and cut instead. That wasn't the case ,so it's blatantly obvious either A: He feels Vick can and will run his offense well or B: Felt he was the Coach that could fixed Mike Vick. Either way I have no doubt whatsoever Chip Kelly is the reason Vick is currently a Eagle, not management. It will ultimately be Kelly who determines whether he stays one in the future. So this idea Foles is the front runner, Foles is better at running "his" offense is nothing more then pure speculation because I have not heard Chip say one time who was or was not the front runner.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scratch that, I lied. Vick doesn't have to "win the day" during practice, he just needs to not screw up and he should win the job easily.

Because let's face it, Vick is going to out-run and out-throw the competition at Novacare. Let's say hypothetically Nick Foles performs just as well as Vick in practice. Now you have two guys on equal footing, who do you go to? Easy, Foles has limited NFL experience so you're going with the guy who has seen basically everything outside of a Super Bowl game and the guy that a majority of the team looks up to as the defacto 'household name' and leader of the team.
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