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He Hate Me


Joined: 02 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucstopshere wrote:
ChaoticBuc3125 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Dude you watch nothing. You say he has an above average arm? Watch some of the throws that Gruden breaks down. You see him deliver a 20 yard strike while taking a hit dead on with defender in his face.

Poorly accurate? How many drops did he have that we're in the numbers of Wrs? Listen I'm not going to say this guy will automatically become a star. However you're analysis is extremely poor and inaccurate. He does throw on anticipation. Ball is out before the wr breaks. Most of the time you see him looking throug reads. Occasionally he'll stare down a wr.


Look I'm convinced te bucs could have and would have been a playoff team if josh was consistent. He fell apart in te finall 6 games when we were at 6-4. The first 4 games were iffy. The next 6 were good but against bad defenses/teams. Then folded when needed most.

I think people want to look at stats and say how is he on the hot seat? But he doesn't do the important things right. He lived on the big play deep ball last year. When defenses mixed in more zone he couldn't beat it.


Please child. All I watch is football, the kid is not that talented and has nothing elite about him. My outlook is not just my outlook alone yet the outlook from nearly every scout and analyst in football. Sure Free had rough end and your a hater, but I guess he plays defense too. Tired of saying same stuff he was forced to try to do things when defense couldn't stop anything and not mention a patchwork OL that gave up constant pressure he was in top 3 in the NFL at facing pressure per drop back.


Lets refrain from terms like "please child", I don't want to take away from good discussion.

Listen there was a reason that Russell Wilson decided to leave NC State. To say he has above average arm strength is ridiculous too. I'm as big of a Freeman fan as there is, hopefully this is nothing more then a motivating factor to push Free to the next level.


And that reason ties into why O'Brien was fired. Russell Wilson was a senior and there were transfer rumors about the younger Glennon. If he would have started Wilson another year, he risked losing his QB for the next few years. Wilson def didn't leave because Glennon was better than him. It was a combination of Glennon transfer rumors and Wilson playing baseball.

I'll refrain from bashing him since he's a Buc now but based on what I saw from him in college, I'll be shocked if he's anything more than a career backup. Chris Simms 2.0.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure the whole issue with Wilson was he wanted to play baseball as well and left NC State to play minor league ball. When that didn't work out, He transferred to Wisconsin.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chaotic,

There is no Freeman hate on this board. This is Buc fans who have seen the same thing. Was our defense relatively great last year? No. But countless 3 and outs and TO's by Freeman didn;t help them out either.

Look, what I question about Freeman, is not physically. Look you put Freeman up against any of the top 5 QBs listed in the NFL and physically, Freeman trumps them. What seperates Freeman from that? It's all between the shoulders and up.

If Freeman could put it together mentally and be consistent, then he no doubt with his physical ability, he's a top tier QB in this league. But obviously we haven't seen the mental aspect match his physical traits.

That's why, regardless of how good of an athlete you are or how strong your arm is, it's all about the mental game. Can you throw a WR open? Freeman hasn't shown that. Throw on anticipation? Freeman hasn't shown that.

Can you look off defenders and go through progressions? Freeman doesn't show that.

Shows decisiveness and make quick decisions? No. Smart decisions? No.

People look at stats and big plays. But recognize this: Those big plays came against poor defenses and against one on one coverages that Jackson and Williams made happen and Freeman made the throws which more less risky.

Once defenses figured out our offense and shifted more zone, it confused Josh. Too many throws into double coverage, even triple coverages. Saints game for exampe: Why was he throwing deep to V-Jax with a safety over the top? No way was that getting complete.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R&P, I don't get how you become non fan of Mike Glennon to a big supporter of him in a matter of weeks... nothing has changed.

I do not see him as an improvement or an answer at QB in the future, this is not even related to my thoughts on Freeman but plain and simple I just don't think he's better. He's a good kid, he's a smart kid - most QBs are but that doesn't mean he is going to be this great QB. I'm sure he's a good backup in this league, I'm sure he'll start some or even a lot of games in this league either somewhere else or maybe even here but I don't think he's an improvement over Freeman for us or an answer for some other NFL team. He has a good arm, but his deep ball his really inconsistent with accuracy, he breaks down under pressure and forces thing, there's not a ton of energy when the ball pops out of his hands, his accuracy is inconsistent, bad athlete, he'll make some reads but don't say he's good at making reads - he gives up on plays quick, ignores the middle of the field and is quick to checkdown, seems like a total rhythm QB to me - threw SOOO many crossing patterns at NC State. Just seemed like so many of his throws were crossing patterns, deep balls, or checkdowns.

I'm just going to be straight up honest, him being Freeman's replacement shouldn't even be a conversation yet. If Free has a bad year, I'm just going to be honest and say in no way or form I think Glennon is our answer. I think he was worth a shot in the third, but I don't draft QBs in the third to be a franchise QB anyways so it's not like I'm expecting it.

I don't get why people are putting down Chaotic, a lot of the stuff he said has good points. I feel like people are hyping up Glennon because he's not Freeman and read some good articles. I've watched and re watched both extensively, the proof is in the pudding. Even if Freeman is not the answer, Glennon won't be - I think Glennon will have a solid career in the NFL, being a good backup and probably being a spot starter for some teams but I'm extremely confident Freeman is the better NFL player without a doubt.


Last edited by Soul Glo on Fri May 17, 2013 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo wrote:
R&P, I don't get how you become non fan of Mike Glennon to a big supporter of him in a matter of weeks... nothing has changed.

I do not see him as an improvement or an answer at QB in the future, this is not even related to my thoughts on Freeman but plain and simple I just don't think he's better. He's a good kid, he's a smart kid - most QBs are but that doesn't mean he is going to be this great QB. I'm sure he's a good backup in this league, I'm sure he'll start some or even a lot of games in this league either somewhere else or maybe even here but I don't think he's an improvement over Freeman for us or an answer for some other NFL team. He has a good arm, but his deep ball his really inconsistent with accuracy, he breaks down under pressure and forces thing, there's not a ton of energy when the ball pops out of his hands, his accuracy is inconsistent, bad athlete, he'll make some reads but don't say he's good at making reads - he gives up on plays quick, ignores the middle of the field and is quick to checkdown, seems like a total rhythm QB to me - threw SOOO many crossing patterns at NC State. Just seemed like so many of his throws were crossing patterns, deep balls, or checkdowns.

I'm just going to be straight up honest, him being Freeman's replacement shouldn't even be a conversation yet. If Free has a bad year, I'm just going to be honest and say in no way or form I think Glennon is our answer. I think he was worth a shot in the third, but I don't draft QBs in the third to be a franchise QB anyways so it's not like I'm expecting it.


First of all, I said I liked Glennon as QB prospect, but I saw a better pick in Tyler Wilson, in the 3rd round there and thought he was a better prospect.

I still think Glennon is a developmental prospect.

MY analysis is towards Josh Freeman. I honestly do not believe he is a franchise guy because simply, he doesn't do the things , as I mentioned above, right to be a successful starter in this league.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
R&P, I don't get how you become non fan of Mike Glennon to a big supporter of him in a matter of weeks... nothing has changed.

I do not see him as an improvement or an answer at QB in the future, this is not even related to my thoughts on Freeman but plain and simple I just don't think he's better. He's a good kid, he's a smart kid - most QBs are but that doesn't mean he is going to be this great QB. I'm sure he's a good backup in this league, I'm sure he'll start some or even a lot of games in this league either somewhere else or maybe even here but I don't think he's an improvement over Freeman for us or an answer for some other NFL team. He has a good arm, but his deep ball his really inconsistent with accuracy, he breaks down under pressure and forces thing, there's not a ton of energy when the ball pops out of his hands, his accuracy is inconsistent, bad athlete, he'll make some reads but don't say he's good at making reads - he gives up on plays quick, ignores the middle of the field and is quick to checkdown, seems like a total rhythm QB to me - threw SOOO many crossing patterns at NC State. Just seemed like so many of his throws were crossing patterns, deep balls, or checkdowns.

I'm just going to be straight up honest, him being Freeman's replacement shouldn't even be a conversation yet. If Free has a bad year, I'm just going to be honest and say in no way or form I think Glennon is our answer. I think he was worth a shot in the third, but I don't draft QBs in the third to be a franchise QB anyways so it's not like I'm expecting it.


First of all, I said I liked Glennon as QB prospect, but I saw a better pick in Tyler Wilson, in the 3rd round there and thought he was a better prospect.

I still think Glennon is a developmental prospect.

MY analysis is towards Josh Freeman. I honestly do not believe he is a franchise guy because simply, he doesn't do the things , as I mentioned above, right to be a successful starter in this league.

and Glennon does what specifically better than Freeman?

I don't want to get into Freeman debate, because I've been in one too many. But I'm willing to prove my points if need be.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
R&P, I don't get how you become non fan of Mike Glennon to a big supporter of him in a matter of weeks... nothing has changed.

I do not see him as an improvement or an answer at QB in the future, this is not even related to my thoughts on Freeman but plain and simple I just don't think he's better. He's a good kid, he's a smart kid - most QBs are but that doesn't mean he is going to be this great QB. I'm sure he's a good backup in this league, I'm sure he'll start some or even a lot of games in this league either somewhere else or maybe even here but I don't think he's an improvement over Freeman for us or an answer for some other NFL team. He has a good arm, but his deep ball his really inconsistent with accuracy, he breaks down under pressure and forces thing, there's not a ton of energy when the ball pops out of his hands, his accuracy is inconsistent, bad athlete, he'll make some reads but don't say he's good at making reads - he gives up on plays quick, ignores the middle of the field and is quick to checkdown, seems like a total rhythm QB to me - threw SOOO many crossing patterns at NC State. Just seemed like so many of his throws were crossing patterns, deep balls, or checkdowns.

I'm just going to be straight up honest, him being Freeman's replacement shouldn't even be a conversation yet. If Free has a bad year, I'm just going to be honest and say in no way or form I think Glennon is our answer. I think he was worth a shot in the third, but I don't draft QBs in the third to be a franchise QB anyways so it's not like I'm expecting it.


First of all, I said I liked Glennon as QB prospect, but I saw a better pick in Tyler Wilson, in the 3rd round there and thought he was a better prospect.

I still think Glennon is a developmental prospect.

MY analysis is towards Josh Freeman. I honestly do not believe he is a franchise guy because simply, he doesn't do the things , as I mentioned above, right to be a successful starter in this league.

and Glennon does what specifically better than Freeman?

I don't want to get into Freeman debate, because I've been in one too many. But I'm willing to prove my points if need be.


If Glennon comes in and picks up the playbook rather quickly, then it's not crazy to think he could push or even compete for the job. Then again. its smething that needs to be monitored over the course of OTAs and Training camp.

If I'm comparing them as prospects, I see that Glennon is more accurate. He does struggle with consistency and needs to do a better job with footwork, but he does a better job of looking defenders off and throwing guys open.

It's pretty bad that a lot of Freeman's mistakes are rookie mistakes.

EDIT: Look, right now, sure Freeman is better than Glennon due to experience. But to be fair, we havent seen Glennon come in and rip it either. He's got a high IQ, seems like a very smart guy (2 degrees in 4 years? sheesh).

The upside for Glennon is pretty good, so there isn't any reason to not think he can't start in this league and be good. However, I just see us having a new QB in 2014. Whether it's Glennon or someone else.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
R&P, I don't get how you become non fan of Mike Glennon to a big supporter of him in a matter of weeks... nothing has changed.

I do not see him as an improvement or an answer at QB in the future, this is not even related to my thoughts on Freeman but plain and simple I just don't think he's better. He's a good kid, he's a smart kid - most QBs are but that doesn't mean he is going to be this great QB. I'm sure he's a good backup in this league, I'm sure he'll start some or even a lot of games in this league either somewhere else or maybe even here but I don't think he's an improvement over Freeman for us or an answer for some other NFL team. He has a good arm, but his deep ball his really inconsistent with accuracy, he breaks down under pressure and forces thing, there's not a ton of energy when the ball pops out of his hands, his accuracy is inconsistent, bad athlete, he'll make some reads but don't say he's good at making reads - he gives up on plays quick, ignores the middle of the field and is quick to checkdown, seems like a total rhythm QB to me - threw SOOO many crossing patterns at NC State. Just seemed like so many of his throws were crossing patterns, deep balls, or checkdowns.

I'm just going to be straight up honest, him being Freeman's replacement shouldn't even be a conversation yet. If Free has a bad year, I'm just going to be honest and say in no way or form I think Glennon is our answer. I think he was worth a shot in the third, but I don't draft QBs in the third to be a franchise QB anyways so it's not like I'm expecting it.


First of all, I said I liked Glennon as QB prospect, but I saw a better pick in Tyler Wilson, in the 3rd round there and thought he was a better prospect.

I still think Glennon is a developmental prospect.

MY analysis is towards Josh Freeman. I honestly do not believe he is a franchise guy because simply, he doesn't do the things , as I mentioned above, right to be a successful starter in this league.

and Glennon does what specifically better than Freeman?

I don't want to get into Freeman debate, because I've been in one too many. But I'm willing to prove my points if need be.


If Glennon comes in and picks up the playbook rather quickly, then it's not crazy to think he could push or even compete for the job. Then again. its smething that needs to be monitored over the course of OTAs and Training camp.

If I'm comparing them as prospects, I see that Glennon is more accurate. He does struggle with consistency and needs to do a better job with footwork, but he does a better job of looking defenders off and throwing guys open.

It's pretty bad that a lot of Freeman's mistakes are rookie mistakes.

I don't see more accuracy at all, at best you could say they split. And I have know idea where this read or anticipation stuff is, he's super quick to check down, ignores middle of the field a lot. I don't see that at all - not saying he couldn't improve there. A lot of people have complained how Glennon impresses in practice, and looks as if a totally different player in the SB because he struggles with pressure and checks down so quickly. I don't know what this looking off defenders stuff is, that is definitely not the most developed part of his game.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the senior bowl is the worst way to evaluate a QB. Learning a new playbook then trying to get chemistry with guys in in a few days before the game? Go back and watch film of actual game tape.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/17/glennon-doesnt-plan-to-take-a-back-seat-with-the-bucs/

Quote:
"I just want to be a good teammate,Ē Glennon recently told SiriusXM NFL Radio, via JoeBucsFan.com. ďIím going to be a good teammate to all the guys, to the quarterbacks, to the line, to everybody. And earn the respect that way and kinda take everything in and listen to what they have to say. But at the same time, I donít know if taking a backseat would be the right term because Iím a competitor and Iím going to do whatever I can to compete. So at the same time, though, I understand Iím a rookie and itís a process, and Iím just going to worry about getting better each and every day and let things play out that way.Ē

While it can be helpful to the starter if the backup adds a ďcompetitive spiritĒ to the quarterback room (Colts quarterback Matthew Hasselbeck explained that mindset last month on Pro Football Talk), the circumstances ultimately can prevent the starter from having the kind of confidence he needs to play the position without looking over his shoulder.

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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is lunacy to say whether Glennon will or will not make it right now. He hasn't played in a real training camp practice, much less a preseason game snap.

A quick look at the starting QBs in the Super Bowl who were drafted after the third round starting with the Bucs Super Bowl victory:

-Brad Johnson
-Rich Gannon
-Kurt Warner
-Tom Brady
-Jake Delhomme

Glennon could turn out to be one of those guys, or more likely from an odds perspective be more like Chris Simms or Bruce Gradkowski. However, to simply state right now, he can't play in the pros, I'm just not going there and I'm a Freeman guy.

Here's what I know, the organization doesn't believe Orlovsky is a viable option to be the #2 QB. They were linked to FA QBs in the offseason, and drafted a QB in the third round. Also, they cut Orlovsky to show him he had no market value to sign him to a less costly contract. I'm pretty confident they have no faith in Orlovsky.

Unless Glennon totally bombs in training camp and the preseason, he will at worse be the #2 QB.
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mfw096


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you guys be more happy if we drafted Barkley? I wanted Barkley especially after he dropped, but I won't lie I see potential in Glennon and have faith in Glennon as well.
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leadkills


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mfw096 wrote:
Would you guys be more happy if we drafted Barkley? I wanted Barkley especially after he dropped, but I won't lie I see potential in Glennon and have faith in Glennon as well.

No he doesn't fit our offense at all. We need a strong armed qb to throw vertical routes to the tall wrs we have.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think the senior bowl is the worst way to evaluate a QB. Learning a new playbook then trying to get chemistry with guys in in a few days before the game? Go back and watch film of actual game tape.

I've watched the majority games of his games.... you're making no sense.
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BFFL5678


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone on here will agree that you canít believe what the commentators say and here is my reason why. Half of them say he is a very good quarterback while the other half talk about issues he has accuracy being one of them. I donít believe any judgment should be made until we see him on the field. Now that being said I think itís funny the same arguments that are being said about him now are pretty much the same ones people were having about Freeman. If you look at both there college stats their qb rating almost mirror each other. The big difference is the rushing yardage which I donít think matter much because Freeman has stop trying to run the ball in the first place even when it is a better option. The point being letís not come to judgment about the guy until we see him take the field as a pro. We all pretty much know he is not going to start this is Freeman years to either break out or pack his bags. Then I think we can worry about what we have in Glennon when next year comes around.
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