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Handicapping the Texans LB "Race"
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PAtexansFAN99


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
I think once OTAs hit and we see that the rookies will need time to adjust and moving Reed over isn't an option we will sign someone to play ILB. Honestly I think BRAMAN should be our ILB. The guy is relentless like Cushing and would do great there IMO. Especially if he only plays 50% of the time anyway. When we do rush packages he can come out and allow others to come in. I think he is our best option.


I agree. At the least he should be given an opportunity to compete at SILB and SOLB. Between he, Williams, and Montgomery, we should be able to move Reed inside full time. He and Cush would be the best pair of pass rushing ILBs in football. I'd love to see Braman starting out there on D.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I think once OTAs hit and we see that the rookies will need time to adjust and moving Reed over isn't an option we will sign someone to play ILB. Honestly I think BRAMAN should be our ILB. The guy is relentless like Cushing and would do great there IMO. Especially if he only plays 50% of the time anyway. When we do rush packages he can come out and allow others to come in. I think he is our best option.


I agree. At the least he should be given an opportunity to compete at SILB and SOLB. Between he, Williams, and Montgomery, we should be able to move Reed inside full time. He and Cush would be the best pair of pass rushing ILBs in football. I'd love to see Braman starting out there on D.


Did you ever watch our STs last year and think to yourself, "How could they be any worse?" Well, not having Braman is a good way to make sure that happens.

I love Braman and want him to be a decade-long player for Houston (I may even get a Braman jersey), but he is widely considered the best special teams player in the league. If our special teams are consistently this bad with the best special teamer in the league, they will be much worse without him if he is removed to start on the defense.

Now, while I agree that filling a potential need on defense is more important than filling one on special teams, but we've seen this team function at an extremely high level with no one at SILB. We've also seen our special teams contribute very heavily to a loss (@ Colts last year).

So we better be damned sure that we've got our coverage woes worked out before we consider moving Braman.
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
We really messed up in not addressing the ILB spot this off season and unless we stay perfectly healthy, it will come back to bite us in the butt.

I dont think the Swearinger pick was ever intended to take over for Ed Reed, in fact i think he will be our #3 guy which plays a ton of snaps, and hopefully we get 2 more seasons out of Reed and Manning and then we will get rid of both of them and be with Swearinger and some other guys, maybe even Brandon Harris

Manning will be 31 when the season starts and is set to make some serious money the next few years, and the point where Swearinger becomes the better option at SS, Manning will be released. We are only 2 seasons away from JJ Watt signing the largest contract in history or something like that. Its going to take some doing. If Cushing comes back strong, we might have to release Manning next off season and use his 6 million cap hit to throw towards Cushing

Looking ahead to locking up Watt long term is probably what caused us to draft 2 DE/OLB this season. There most likely wont be any way that Brooks Reed is a Texan after his rookie deal runs out.

2015 is shaping up to be another house cleaning year for us. We will have loads of money tied up in Arian Foster, Matt Schuab, Andre Johnson, JJoe, Myers and Brown....not counting what Cushing will be making by then.

I suspect we see a lot more picks in the 2-4 rounds in future drafts that are used to replace good players that we simply cant pay.

This is actually a good problem as it means we are a stable playoff team...if not, we start releasing and restructuring like crazy


Let's stop assuming failing corners will become adequate safeties. Quin had the body and skillset of a safety and probably would have never played corner for a team other than one coached by Richard Smith / Frank Bush or Vance Joseph. Brandon Harris is the antithesis of a safety. He's too small at 5' 10" 188, has poor recognition skills, and doesn't have long speed or catchup speed. Harris was taken to be a nickel as he showed some decent coverage skills and was quick enough at the line to hang with smallish slot receivers, but he has failed to advance in his ability to not bite on fakes by receivers and may be the only player I've seen in a decade that will bite on a pump fake by a QB.

Additionally, I think the future cap fears are overstated. Cushing will get a nice raise, but it's not like he's going from nothing to to a fortune as Foster did as he counts $3.2 million now and won't go over $5-$6 million in a properly constructed deal. OD is a pretty easy cut next year which frees up $6 million. Likewise, Watt is going to command a tidy sum no doubt, but even a Mario type deal means $8-$12 million the first few seasons, which is what Antonio is costing this year. As big a fan as I am of the Ninja, he's not going to be brought back at that $9.5 million figure so he and JJ's contracts align pretty well to avoid committing too much to a single position. Unlike most teams, we have practically no dead space so we can absorb more higher paid vets than most.

Now I do agree somewhat about 2015 being a bit of change over, although I've placed the next "pinch point" at 2016. Without question, our window of opportunity to peak before age and cap catches up with us began in earnest last year and I think that partially explains some "win now" picks like a #3 safety to pair with Ed Reed vs. developing the long-term FS and experiencing growing pains. I don't expect a massive deviation from the build through the draft model, but we most certainly need to be more active than usual in bringing in guys on short-term deals for the next few years vs. all the longview approaches. Personally, I think we still need to add a veteran corner if Carmichael and Harris don't show vast improvement in camp and I tend to agree that a vet ILB is likely in the cards once it's clear Sharpton can't contribute. I wouldn't rule out a vet slot receiver if there are some preseason casualties like Santana Moss or bringing Devery Henderson in.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league


Well if you haven't heard it then I MUST be wrong.
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Blaze


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu). I like Braman and what he brings to the team in attitude and work ethic, but as we saw last year (and in the David Nixon debacle when Demeco went down), there just isn't room for the Nading, Braman, Keo special teams roster filler types if you can't play your position when called upon. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a member of our coverage teams that should be secure in their position after the unit's abysmal performance last year. Braman is going to have to show something as an LB this offseason or he's going to get caught up in a numbers game. Running around tackling without a helmet was a nice highlight play, but a plain old tackle on ordinary returners like Deji Karim or Joe McKnight with his helmet on was what was needed last year.
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Blaze


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu). I like Braman and what he brings to the team in attitude and work ethic, but as we saw last year (and in the David Nixon debacle when Demeco went down), there just isn't room for the Nading, Braman, Keo special teams roster filler types if you can't play your position when called upon. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a member of our coverage teams that should be secure in their position after the unit's abysmal performance last year. Braman is going to have to show something as an LB this offseason or he's going to get caught up in a numbers game. Running around tackling without a helmet was a nice highlight play, but a plain old tackle on ordinary returners like Deji Karim or Joe McKnight with his helmet on was what was needed last year.
2 things. 1. I blame alot of thet units problems on Marciano who has been given more chances than catwoman. He gets players drafted specifically for ST and his unit still drops the ball every time. I dont get it. 2. I do believe Braman could play a few snaps on defense. I do worry his wreckless style would have to limit the amount of snaps he gets though.
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treece300e


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaze wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu). I like Braman and what he brings to the team in attitude and work ethic, but as we saw last year (and in the David Nixon debacle when Demeco went down), there just isn't room for the Nading, Braman, Keo special teams roster filler types if you can't play your position when called upon. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a member of our coverage teams that should be secure in their position after the unit's abysmal performance last year. Braman is going to have to show something as an LB this offseason or he's going to get caught up in a numbers game. Running around tackling without a helmet was a nice highlight play, but a plain old tackle on ordinary returners like Deji Karim or Joe McKnight with his helmet on was what was needed last year.
2 things. 1. I blame alot of thet units problems on Marciano who has been given more chances than catwoman. He gets players drafted specifically for ST and his unit still drops the ball every time. I dont get it. 2. I do believe Braman could play a few snaps on defense. I do worry his wreckless style would have to limit the amount of snaps he gets though.


As much as I love Braman's attitude, work ethic, and motor when he's in the game, he had a tremendous opportunity last year to get more snaps when our ILB situation was in shambles, and Reed was hurt on the outside. I was hoping Braman would get some snaps, but that fact that he didn't would lead one to believe that he may not be ready. That could be different this year, but the fact that we drafted two more OLBs is a strong indicator to the contrary. Braman is one of my favorite Texans, but his longevity on this team is far from solidified if he can't contribute on more than ST.
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu).


Are you honestly suggesting Braman was elected Pro Bowl alternate based on name recognition?

Even if you aren't, merely comparing his inclusion to Saturdays is ludicrous.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu).


Are you honestly suggesting Braman was elected Pro Bowl alternate based on name recognition?

Even if you aren't, merely comparing his inclusion to Saturdays is ludicrous.


No, merely pointing out that inclusion in the Pro Bowl is a poor barometer of player value. The system of picking players at positions beyond skill positions that get all the pub is a complete joke as witnessed by Saturday's inclusion last year. Extending that to positions like "Special Teams Contributor" is practically meaningless as even the most dialed in folks on this site probably couldn't name the "gunner" on 3 NFL teams, better yet evaluate if they are any good or not. Extend that down the list to "alternates" and it's about as meaningful as the guy they get to be long snapper.

Generally inclusion is simply a matter of being near the top of the "Special Teams Tackles" chart which tells you nothing about coverage quality and is skewed by the total number of kickoffs and punts returned which the Texans led the league with since we couldn't buy a touchback on a kickoff. Alan Ball had 1 less ST tackle than Braman last year and having his name and Pro Bowl together is laughable. Jesse Nading had 4 less. Our ST "Captain" Shiloh Keo had a whopping 11 ST tackles. Raise your hand if you've ever heard of Johnson Bademosi who was 2nd to "Pro Bowler" Matthew Slater in ST tackles.

Not saying Braman isn't a good ST player, just encouraging you to use a better metric than being a pro bowl alternate. Again, the Texans coverage units were amongst the worst in the NFL (2nd worst in yards, 6th worst in average, 2nd worst in tds) and while it's an 11 man unit, Braman and Keo were the leaders of a failed unit that has to improve.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu).


Are you honestly suggesting Braman was elected Pro Bowl alternate based on name recognition?

Even if you aren't, merely comparing his inclusion to Saturdays is ludicrous.


No, merely pointing out that inclusion in the Pro Bowl is a poor barometer of player value. The system of picking players at positions beyond skill positions that get all the pub is a complete joke as witnessed by Saturday's inclusion last year. Extending that to positions like "Special Teams Contributor" is practically meaningless as even the most dialed in folks on this site probably couldn't name the "gunner" on 3 NFL teams, better yet evaluate if they are any good or not. Extend that down the list to "alternates" and it's about as meaningful as the guy they get to be long snapper.

Generally inclusion is simply a matter of being near the top of the "Special Teams Tackles" chart which tells you nothing about coverage quality and is skewed by the total number of kickoffs and punts returned which the Texans led the league with since we couldn't buy a touchback on a kickoff. Alan Ball had 1 less ST tackle than Braman last year and having his name and Pro Bowl together is laughable. Jesse Nading had 4 less. Our ST "Captain" Shiloh Keo had a whopping 11 ST tackles. Raise your hand if you've ever heard of Johnson Bademosi who was 2nd to "Pro Bowler" Matthew Slater in ST tackles.

Not saying Braman isn't a good ST player, just encouraging you to use a better metric than being a pro bowl alternate. Again, the Texans coverage units were amongst the worst in the NFL (2nd worst in yards, 6th worst in average, 2nd worst in tds) and while it's an 11 man unit, Braman and Keo were the leaders of a failed unit that has to improve.


Sorry Apollo but if youre eyes don't tell you that braman is a beast on ST I dont know what to say. He is a man among boys out there and down grading him because the other 10 guys suck is garbage. thats the same school of thought Marciano used while making his decision on Holiday and that was a terrible decision too. Dont lump our best special teamer in with the other scrubs because the unit as a whole is terrible.
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Jacobys Homey


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu).


Are you honestly suggesting Braman was elected Pro Bowl alternate based on name recognition?

Even if you aren't, merely comparing his inclusion to Saturdays is ludicrous.


No, merely pointing out that inclusion in the Pro Bowl is a poor barometer of player value. The system of picking players at positions beyond skill positions that get all the pub is a complete joke as witnessed by Saturday's inclusion last year. Extending that to positions like "Special Teams Contributor" is practically meaningless as even the most dialed in folks on this site probably couldn't name the "gunner" on 3 NFL teams, better yet evaluate if they are any good or not. Extend that down the list to "alternates" and it's about as meaningful as the guy they get to be long snapper.

Generally inclusion is simply a matter of being near the top of the "Special Teams Tackles" chart which tells you nothing about coverage quality and is skewed by the total number of kickoffs and punts returned which the Texans led the league with since we couldn't buy a touchback on a kickoff. Alan Ball had 1 less ST tackle than Braman last year and having his name and Pro Bowl together is laughable. Jesse Nading had 4 less. Our ST "Captain" Shiloh Keo had a whopping 11 ST tackles. Raise your hand if you've ever heard of Johnson Bademosi who was 2nd to "Pro Bowler" Matthew Slater in ST tackles.

Not saying Braman isn't a good ST player, just encouraging you to use a better metric than being a pro bowl alternate. Again, the Texans coverage units were amongst the worst in the NFL (2nd worst in yards, 6th worst in average, 2nd worst in tds) and while it's an 11 man unit, Braman and Keo were the leaders of a failed unit that has to improve.


Sorry Apollo but if youre eyes don't tell you that braman is a beast on ST I dont know what to say. He is a man among boys out there and down grading him because the other 10 guys suck is garbage. thats the same school of thought Marciano used while making his decision on Holiday and that was a terrible decision too. Dont lump our best special teamer in with the other scrubs because the unit as a whole is terrible.


Read over his last paragraph again.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacobys Homey wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
Braman plays hard and is a good ST guy but I've never heard anyone call him the best in the league
He was a pro bowl alternate. That at the least makes him one of the best.


Oh yes, like Jeff Saturday who wasn't good enough to start on his own team anymore, but was good enough for the Pro Bowl. "Pro Bowl Alternate" will forever be stained by Will Demps inclusion in my book, but then again since nobody actually tackles in the Pro Bowl, I guess he was a good choice (I'm sure he worked in plenty of photo shoots for himself in a speedo in Honolulu).


Are you honestly suggesting Braman was elected Pro Bowl alternate based on name recognition?

Even if you aren't, merely comparing his inclusion to Saturdays is ludicrous.


No, merely pointing out that inclusion in the Pro Bowl is a poor barometer of player value. The system of picking players at positions beyond skill positions that get all the pub is a complete joke as witnessed by Saturday's inclusion last year. Extending that to positions like "Special Teams Contributor" is practically meaningless as even the most dialed in folks on this site probably couldn't name the "gunner" on 3 NFL teams, better yet evaluate if they are any good or not. Extend that down the list to "alternates" and it's about as meaningful as the guy they get to be long snapper.

Generally inclusion is simply a matter of being near the top of the "Special Teams Tackles" chart which tells you nothing about coverage quality and is skewed by the total number of kickoffs and punts returned which the Texans led the league with since we couldn't buy a touchback on a kickoff. Alan Ball had 1 less ST tackle than Braman last year and having his name and Pro Bowl together is laughable. Jesse Nading had 4 less. Our ST "Captain" Shiloh Keo had a whopping 11 ST tackles. Raise your hand if you've ever heard of Johnson Bademosi who was 2nd to "Pro Bowler" Matthew Slater in ST tackles.

Not saying Braman isn't a good ST player, just encouraging you to use a better metric than being a pro bowl alternate. Again, the Texans coverage units were amongst the worst in the NFL (2nd worst in yards, 6th worst in average, 2nd worst in tds) and while it's an 11 man unit, Braman and Keo were the leaders of a failed unit that has to improve.


Sorry Apollo but if youre eyes don't tell you that braman is a beast on ST I dont know what to say. He is a man among boys out there and down grading him because the other 10 guys suck is garbage. thats the same school of thought Marciano used while making his decision on Holiday and that was a terrible decision too. Dont lump our best special teamer in with the other scrubs because the unit as a whole is terrible.


Read over his last paragraph again.


read? pft, I just skim over Wink
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/05/wade-phillips-brooks-reed-had-offseason-surgery-darryl-sharpton-still-recovering-from-hip-injury/?cmpid=sportshcat

Houston, we MAY have a problem

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