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Pats sign former Titans WR Lavelle Hawkins to a 2-year deal
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PatriotsWin!


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChazStandard wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
He'll probably be cut before the regular season.


Why do you think that? He'll be competing with Donald Jones and Mike Jenkins for a spot. Every chance of beating out those two.


Exactly. Other than Amendola and the two rookies WRs we just drafted, every WR spot is wide open. Hawkins has a great chance of making it.
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NS922


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year they set out to get all the tight ends, now they want all the receivers
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has had one season ever with more than 7 receptions Laughing

He has one season with more than 200 yards receiving (being generous as his second highest was 110) and 1 career touchdown. Laughing

There's a reason he was cut.

Amendola, Boyce, Dobson are all essentially locks

Slater is a ST lock

I can't imagine Edelman not making the team. He's not that great either, but he's versatile and has still done more than Hawkins has.

Strong chance that Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, or T.J. Moe beat him out. None of them are good, but they're probably better than Hawkins especially if they're in there as the #3-#5 area (ie: secondary targets) - especially Jenkins. As mediocre as he is, he's a dependable depth guy. Moe has the measurables ideal for a slot WR so the Patriots could look to add and develop him as well.

What does Hawkins have? Why should he make the roster when he spent the past half-decade proving how ineffective he could be in Tennessee?
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PatriotsWin!


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
He has had one season ever with more than 7 receptions Laughing

He has one season with more than 200 yards receiving (being generous as his second highest was 110) and 1 career touchdown. Laughing

There's a reason he was cut.

Amendola, Boyce, Dobson are all essentially locks

Slater is a ST lock

I can't imagine Edelman not making the team. He's not that great either, but he's versatile and has still done more than Hawkins has.

Strong chance that Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, or T.J. Moe beat him out. None of them are good, but they're probably better than Hawkins especially if they're in there as the #3-#5 area (ie: secondary targets) - especially Jenkins. As mediocre as he is, he's a dependable depth guy. Moe has the measurables ideal for a slot WR so the Patriots could look to add and develop him as well.

What does Hawkins have? Why should he make the roster when he spent the past half-decade proving how ineffective he could be in Tennessee?


Ah yes, Edelman is a virtual lock as well. Slater is strictly a special teamer tho, he really doesn't count. Jenkins and Jones are bad tho, I would much rather have Hawkins over those two guys.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
He has had one season ever with more than 7 receptions Laughing

He has one season with more than 200 yards receiving (being generous as his second highest was 110) and 1 career touchdown. Laughing

There's a reason he was cut.

Amendola, Boyce, Dobson are all essentially locks

Slater is a ST lock

I can't imagine Edelman not making the team. He's not that great either, but he's versatile and has still done more than Hawkins has.

Strong chance that Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, or T.J. Moe beat him out. None of them are good, but they're probably better than Hawkins especially if they're in there as the #3-#5 area (ie: secondary targets) - especially Jenkins. As mediocre as he is, he's a dependable depth guy. Moe has the measurables ideal for a slot WR so the Patriots could look to add and develop him as well.

What does Hawkins have? Why should he make the roster when he spent the past half-decade proving how ineffective he could be in Tennessee?


Ah yes, Edelman is a virtual lock as well. Slater is strictly a special teamer tho, he really doesn't count. Jenkins and Jones are bad tho, I would much rather have Hawkins over those two guys.


Why would you rather have Hawkins over Jenkins and Jones? Jenkins has proven to be a good option as a depth guy/secondary receiving option which is what I imagine he would be in New England. I imagine Jones should be able to beat out Hawkins as well.

I included Slater because that still takes up a roster spot. You can look at it as me saying 5 WRs make the roster and Hawkins doesn't, if you would prefer, but the point I'm making remains.

I think the 5 will be (not necessarily in this order on the DC): Amendola, Dobbins, Boyce, Edelman, and Jenkins.

edit: Keep in mind, this isn't counting injuries. If any of the guys ahead of him get hurt then clearly he'd have a better shot at making the roster.
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PatriotsWin!


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
He has had one season ever with more than 7 receptions Laughing

He has one season with more than 200 yards receiving (being generous as his second highest was 110) and 1 career touchdown. Laughing

There's a reason he was cut.

Amendola, Boyce, Dobson are all essentially locks

Slater is a ST lock

I can't imagine Edelman not making the team. He's not that great either, but he's versatile and has still done more than Hawkins has.

Strong chance that Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, or T.J. Moe beat him out. None of them are good, but they're probably better than Hawkins especially if they're in there as the #3-#5 area (ie: secondary targets) - especially Jenkins. As mediocre as he is, he's a dependable depth guy. Moe has the measurables ideal for a slot WR so the Patriots could look to add and develop him as well.

What does Hawkins have? Why should he make the roster when he spent the past half-decade proving how ineffective he could be in Tennessee?


Ah yes, Edelman is a virtual lock as well. Slater is strictly a special teamer tho, he really doesn't count. Jenkins and Jones are bad tho, I would much rather have Hawkins over those two guys.


Why would you rather have Hawkins over Jenkins and Jones? Jenkins has proven to be a good option as a depth guy/secondary receiving option which is what I imagine he would be in New England. I imagine Jones should be able to beat out Hawkins as well.

I included Slater because that still takes up a roster spot. You can look at it as me saying 5 WRs make the roster and Hawkins doesn't, if you would prefer, but the point I'm making remains.

I think the 5 will be (not necessarily in this order on the DC): Amendola, Dobbins, Boyce, Edelman, and Jenkins.

edit: Keep in mind, this isn't counting injuries. If any of the guys ahead of him get hurt then clearly he'd have a better shot at making the roster.


Slater's spot is reserved, his position is irrelevant. We still need 5 Wrs NOT including Slater. As to why I don't like Jenkins... he's probably the slowest WR in the league. And I don't' get why you're saying Jones should be able to beat Hawkins. Why are you so sure? What makes you think Jones is anything but a camp body?
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
He has had one season ever with more than 7 receptions Laughing

He has one season with more than 200 yards receiving (being generous as his second highest was 110) and 1 career touchdown. Laughing

There's a reason he was cut.

Amendola, Boyce, Dobson are all essentially locks

Slater is a ST lock

I can't imagine Edelman not making the team. He's not that great either, but he's versatile and has still done more than Hawkins has.

Strong chance that Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, or T.J. Moe beat him out. None of them are good, but they're probably better than Hawkins especially if they're in there as the #3-#5 area (ie: secondary targets) - especially Jenkins. As mediocre as he is, he's a dependable depth guy. Moe has the measurables ideal for a slot WR so the Patriots could look to add and develop him as well.

What does Hawkins have? Why should he make the roster when he spent the past half-decade proving how ineffective he could be in Tennessee?


Ah yes, Edelman is a virtual lock as well. Slater is strictly a special teamer tho, he really doesn't count. Jenkins and Jones are bad tho, I would much rather have Hawkins over those two guys.


Why would you rather have Hawkins over Jenkins and Jones? Jenkins has proven to be a good option as a depth guy/secondary receiving option which is what I imagine he would be in New England. I imagine Jones should be able to beat out Hawkins as well.

I included Slater because that still takes up a roster spot. You can look at it as me saying 5 WRs make the roster and Hawkins doesn't, if you would prefer, but the point I'm making remains.

I think the 5 will be (not necessarily in this order on the DC): Amendola, Dobbins, Boyce, Edelman, and Jenkins.

edit: Keep in mind, this isn't counting injuries. If any of the guys ahead of him get hurt then clearly he'd have a better shot at making the roster.


Slater's spot is reserved, his position is irrelevant. We still need 5 Wrs NOT including Slater. As to why I don't like Jenkins... he's probably the slowest WR in the league. And I don't' get why you're saying Jones should be able to beat Hawkins. Why are you so sure? What makes you think Jones is anything but a camp body?


"I included Slater because that still takes up a roster spot. You can look at it as me saying 5 WRs make the roster and Hawkins doesn't, if you would prefer, but the point I'm making remains." Wink

Calling Jenkins the slowest WR in the league is a clear exaggeration. Even if he were, he has proven to be an adequate depth guy. I know it's not flashy and there isn't a ton to look forward to with him, but there's a spot in the league for that type of guy.

I'm not 100% sure, but I can say that I do expect Jones to beat out Hawkins. Why? He's the better player and should do better in an offense with more receiving options around him and Tom Brady throwing him the football. He still sucks and probably shouldn't be on the roster longer than 2014, if not 2013, but that's more of a testament to how bad Hawkins is.

It's rare that a player gets five years to constantly prove how ineffective he is. Numerous QBs & numerous chances and what does Hawkins have to show for it? Nothing. He's not good. 5 seasons, 52 games, 4 starts... he has 71 receptions, 771 yards, and 1 TD. That includes his 2011 which saw 47-470-1. Besides that, here's how his career looks:

2008: 7-68-0
2009: 7-110-0
2010: 5-61-0
2012: 5-62-0

Why am I supposed to believe that Hawkins is going to do anything? Maybe he outperforms Jones... but I don't see him getting the nod over Jenkins. Amendola, Dobbins, Boyce, Edelman, Jenkins.
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WesWelker


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
He has had one season ever with more than 7 receptions Laughing

He has one season with more than 200 yards receiving (being generous as his second highest was 110) and 1 career touchdown. Laughing

There's a reason he was cut.

Amendola, Boyce, Dobson are all essentially locks

Slater is a ST lock

I can't imagine Edelman not making the team. He's not that great either, but he's versatile and has still done more than Hawkins has.

Strong chance that Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, or T.J. Moe beat him out. None of them are good, but they're probably better than Hawkins especially if they're in there as the #3-#5 area (ie: secondary targets) - especially Jenkins. As mediocre as he is, he's a dependable depth guy. Moe has the measurables ideal for a slot WR so the Patriots could look to add and develop him as well.

What does Hawkins have? Why should he make the roster when he spent the past half-decade proving how ineffective he could be in Tennessee?


Ah yes, Edelman is a virtual lock as well. Slater is strictly a special teamer tho, he really doesn't count. Jenkins and Jones are bad tho, I would much rather have Hawkins over those two guys.


Why would you rather have Hawkins over Jenkins and Jones? Jenkins has proven to be a good option as a depth guy/secondary receiving option which is what I imagine he would be in New England. I imagine Jones should be able to beat out Hawkins as well.

I included Slater because that still takes up a roster spot. You can look at it as me saying 5 WRs make the roster and Hawkins doesn't, if you would prefer, but the point I'm making remains.

I think the 5 will be (not necessarily in this order on the DC): Amendola, Dobbins, Boyce, Edelman, and Jenkins.

edit: Keep in mind, this isn't counting injuries. If any of the guys ahead of him get hurt then clearly he'd have a better shot at making the roster.


Slater's spot is reserved, his position is irrelevant. We still need 5 Wrs NOT including Slater. As to why I don't like Jenkins... he's probably the slowest WR in the league. And I don't' get why you're saying Jones should be able to beat Hawkins. Why are you so sure? What makes you think Jones is anything but a camp body?


"I included Slater because that still takes up a roster spot. You can look at it as me saying 5 WRs make the roster and Hawkins doesn't, if you would prefer, but the point I'm making remains." Wink

Calling Jenkins the slowest WR in the league is a clear exaggeration. Even if he were, he has proven to be an adequate depth guy. I know it's not flashy and there isn't a ton to look forward to with him, but there's a spot in the league for that type of guy.

I'm not 100% sure, but I can say that I do expect Jones to beat out Hawkins. Why? He's the better player and should do better in an offense with more receiving options around him and Tom Brady throwing him the football. He still sucks and probably shouldn't be on the roster longer than 2014, if not 2013, but that's more of a testament to how bad Hawkins is.

It's rare that a player gets five years to constantly prove how ineffective he is. Numerous QBs & numerous chances and what does Hawkins have to show for it? Nothing. He's not good. 5 seasons, 52 games, 4 starts... he has 71 receptions, 771 yards, and 1 TD. That includes his 2011 which saw 47-470-1. Besides that, here's how his career looks:

2008: 7-68-0
2009: 7-110-0
2010: 5-61-0
2012: 5-62-0

Why am I supposed to believe that Hawkins is going to do anything? Maybe he outperforms Jones... but I don't see him getting the nod over Jenkins. Amendola, Dobbins, Boyce, Edelman, Jenkins.


But he is....he's a good blocker and fine under ten yards, but he is the slowest receiver in the league. It's closer to undeniable fact than it is "exaggeration" at this point.

The kid was solid in 2011, let's give him an actual QB and an offensive system that will use him properly before we call him trash.

And it's Dobson, not Dobbins
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WesWelker wrote:
The kid was solid in 2011, let's give him an actual QB and an offensive system that will use him properly before we call him trash.

To further expand on your point......that's essentially what every receiver needs. The difference in skill between receivers up and down the depth chart isn't really all that much and how they produce is mostly reliant upon the quarterback and the system they play within and whether or not it accentuates their skill set.

You can't ever truly judge a wide receiver until he's either succeeded/failed in the right situation......this is the right situation for Hawkins and we'll see what he is.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been a long week.

"You can't ever truly judge a wide receiver until he's either succeeded/failed in the right situation......this is the right situation for Hawkins and we'll see what he is."

Laughing

What makes WR different from any other position?

Hawkins has had a half-decade to prove that he is an ineffective receiver. He has been given a multitude of opportunities. I'm honestly flabbergasted that we're having this conversation. I'm not sure how out of ~3,000 players, this is the guy people are randomly giving the BotD.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
It has been a long week.

"You can't ever truly judge a wide receiver until he's either succeeded/failed in the right situation......this is the right situation for Hawkins and we'll see what he is."

Laughing

What makes WR different from any other position?

Hawkins has had a half-decade to prove that he is an ineffective receiver. He has been given a multitude of opportunities. I'm honestly flabbergasted that we're having this conversation. I'm not sure how out of ~3,000 players, this is the guy people are randomly giving the BotD.


Because a wide receivers production is directly reliant upon a quarterbacks ability to get him the ball. It's the most frustrating position to play on a football field.

Defensive players create their production by attacking the ball. Quarterbacks have it directly snapped to them, running backs have it handed to them, offensive linemen have their assignment coming at them on every play. As a receiver, if your quarterback is unable to get the ball to you with some frequency, you're basically just running 20-25 sprints and calling it a day.
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Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Titans are one of the handful of other teams in the league that use the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system that the Pats run. It should definitely make absorbing the playbook easier for him. I'd have certainly preferred the Pats sign Nate Washington, but Hawkins does have some upside to him.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
It has been a long week.

"You can't ever truly judge a wide receiver until he's either succeeded/failed in the right situation......this is the right situation for Hawkins and we'll see what he is."

Laughing

What makes WR different from any other position?

Hawkins has had a half-decade to prove that he is an ineffective receiver. He has been given a multitude of opportunities. I'm honestly flabbergasted that we're having this conversation. I'm not sure how out of ~3,000 players, this is the guy people are randomly giving the BotD.


Because a wide receivers production is directly reliant upon a quarterbacks ability to get him the ball. It's the most frustrating position to play on a football field.

Defensive players create their production by attacking the ball. Quarterbacks have it directly snapped to them, running backs have it handed to them, offensive linemen have their assignment coming at them on every play. As a receiver, if your quarterback is unable to get the ball to you with some frequency, you're basically just running 20-25 sprints and calling it a day.


So it's just a coincidence he couldn't produce with multiple QBs? Even though other receivers produced on the same teams?
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
The Titans are one of the handful of other teams in the league that use the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system that the Pats run. It should definitely make absorbing the playbook easier for him. I'd have certainly preferred the Pats sign Nate Washington, but Hawkins does have some upside to him.


Uh what? Confused

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8849439/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots

in short, Erhardt-Perkins is one of the three main offensive systems that were adopted on a wide scale by NFL offenses in the 1980s, the other two being West Coast and Air Coryell. The Patriots have been the team with the most success using Erhardt-Perkins, but other teams including the Titans, Giants and Bills also employ its terminology. In the past, it's this terminology that's been the main hurdle that receivers and other offensive skill players have had to clear before assimilating into the Pats' offense.
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
It has been a long week.

"You can't ever truly judge a wide receiver until he's either succeeded/failed in the right situation......this is the right situation for Hawkins and we'll see what he is."

Laughing

What makes WR different from any other position?

Hawkins has had a half-decade to prove that he is an ineffective receiver. He has been given a multitude of opportunities. I'm honestly flabbergasted that we're having this conversation. I'm not sure how out of ~3,000 players, this is the guy people are randomly giving the BotD.


Because a wide receivers production is directly reliant upon a quarterbacks ability to get him the ball. It's the most frustrating position to play on a football field.

Defensive players create their production by attacking the ball. Quarterbacks have it directly snapped to them, running backs have it handed to them, offensive linemen have their assignment coming at them on every play. As a receiver, if your quarterback is unable to get the ball to you with some frequency, you're basically just running 20-25 sprints and calling it a day.


So it's just a coincidence he couldn't produce with multiple QBs? Even though other receivers produced on the same teams?

Yeah....many receivers have produced in New England and gone onto other teams and done nothing. Not saying Hawkins WILL, but until it's proven he can't/won't.....we'll just have to see
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