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Marquess Wilson = Denarius Moore?
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7861
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonanzaHawk wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
G08 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
I really have to define tougher for you? Gimme a break.
 

I said quantify. You probably don't know what that means. Let me help you:

quantify - express as a number or measure or quantity; "Can you quantify your results?"

I'm asking how you determine one player to be tougher than another, ESPECIALLY since Earl has missed numerous games in his career due to injury.

Sugashane wrote:
you have proven yourself inept and I will exit this thread, because you're too dumb and smug to realize you're clueless. Yet everyone else has. Laughing


Laughing yeah, I think I'm done "arguing" here as well.

I'll leave you with this little nugget from the Daily Herald's review of day 2 at minicamp:

Quote:
Bears rookie wide receiver Marquess Wilson doesn’t look like a lowly seventh-round pick.

Nothing against seventh-round picks, but Wilson is tall, fast and fluid, exhibits soft hands, excellent agility and the timing and leaping ability to win jump balls
.
Fine I'll quantify it for you; grit, will, determination. Toughness is going back into a game after suffering a life threatening injury. Toughness is going out on that field and giving 100% of whatever you have. Toughness is the mental and physical fortitude to overcome adversity (like having your job taken away through no fault of your own) That's toughness, Earl has displayed it in spades, Wilson clearly demonstrated he lacks it. Now insult my intelligence some more, b/c that clearly demonstrates how superior you are.

Sup, that's still not a quantification. And also, Wilson has actually never "clearly demonstrated" that he lacks toughness. His problems stem primarily from a divide between him and his coaching staff, which he eventually accused of abuse. Oddly enough, his head coach has a history of questionable coaching techniques. At this point, it's obvious you just have some sort of bias against Wilson; that, or you just really want to be right in this debate. Either way, it's going to come down to one thing.

The quote in red, provided by G08, is the first of many reports we'll hear about Wilson's talent. It's undeniable, and apparently he's already putting it on display. I trust Trestman and his system, so as long as we can trust our line to protect Jay and Jay to find the right guy, Marquess will be utilized and become a consistent contributor to this offense sometime near the middle of the season.

Prediction: Marquess Wilson will have more receptions than Earl Bennett in weeks 9-17.
If he catches one pass it will be more than Earl caught his rookie year. Wilson is a very interesting case and will stick with the Bears either on the 53 or the PC. He will be one of the most watched at training camp and in the pre-season. Should he catch a td he will be our next folk hero.

But I expect nothing significant from a rookie WR so don't be disappointed if Wilson fulfills that expectation should he be on the 53.

Bennett I have always liked but he is no lock to make this team. He has been a disappointment but the Bears stupid handling of him did him no favors.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7861
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Earl Bennett leading the league in that catch % stat proves that stat means absolutely nothing.
It's not catch % (which actually means nothing b/c its greatly affected by QB accuracy) but drop % (which only deals with how many balls dropped out of targets thrown). And its a wide known fact that Earl has one of the best sets of hands in the NFL. That's not speaking out of school. Just like its a known fact that he's an excellent route runner (which also plays a factor in how good his hands are, b/c he's always exactly where he's supposed to be). Its funny how you claim that stat means nothing yet the #2 guy on that list is considered en masse as having the best hands in football (Larry Fitzgerald) the guys at the bottom of the list are widely known to have bad hands.

IOW just b/c you disagree w/ what a stat says, doesn't make the stat any less valid or meaningful. If you believe its flawed, state your case. If you just don't like it, deal w/ it.
He and the incredible Jordan Shipley right.

"One of the best sets of hands in the NFL" and Earl Bennetts skill set lead to mediocre production.
Well I've already demonstrated that its not mediocre production, even w/ the injuries based on his role on the team.
It is mediocre. When you're lining up against the teams worst CB and you cant score TDs and cant get open you hurt the team. Then factor it his injuries.

When Earl Bennett is the best in a category then obviously that category doesnt mean you're a good receiver.
No it wasn't, or do I have to show AGAIN how his production was just below that of Jacoby Jones (you know, the guy who, unjustly admittedly, was named a top 100 NFL player) And again that's even w/ the injuries. Yes having the best drop rate doesn't make you the best WR, what it does mean, is that you are very sure handed, and catch the ball. Guess what the opposite means.
He is so sure handed they don't throw to him much.
Because he can't separate.
Bennett has shown a lot of talent in flashes. Maybe he will stay healthy this year and show more.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5418
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
DaMike wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Earl Bennett leading the league in that catch % stat proves that stat means absolutely nothing.
It's not catch % (which actually means nothing b/c its greatly affected by QB accuracy) but drop % (which only deals with how many balls dropped out of targets thrown). And its a wide known fact that Earl has one of the best sets of hands in the NFL. That's not speaking out of school. Just like its a known fact that he's an excellent route runner (which also plays a factor in how good his hands are, b/c he's always exactly where he's supposed to be). Its funny how you claim that stat means nothing yet the #2 guy on that list is considered en masse as having the best hands in football (Larry Fitzgerald) the guys at the bottom of the list are widely known to have bad hands.

IOW just b/c you disagree w/ what a stat says, doesn't make the stat any less valid or meaningful. If you believe its flawed, state your case. If you just don't like it, deal w/ it.
He and the incredible Jordan Shipley right.

"One of the best sets of hands in the NFL" and Earl Bennetts skill set lead to mediocre production.
Well I've already demonstrated that its not mediocre production, even w/ the injuries based on his role on the team.
It is mediocre. When you're lining up against the teams worst CB and you cant score TDs and cant get open you hurt the team. Then factor it his injuries.

When Earl Bennett is the best in a category then obviously that category doesnt mean you're a good receiver.
No it wasn't, or do I have to show AGAIN how his production was just below that of Jacoby Jones (you know, the guy who, unjustly admittedly, was named a top 100 NFL player) And again that's even w/ the injuries. Yes having the best drop rate doesn't make you the best WR, what it does mean, is that you are very sure handed, and catch the ball. Guess what the opposite means.
He is so sure handed they don't throw to him much.
Because he can't separate.
Bennett has shown a lot of talent in flashes. Maybe he will stay healthy this year and show more.
We all hope that year after year and it never comes.
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AZBearsFan


Moderator
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 10766
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
BonanzaHawk wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
G08 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
I really have to define tougher for you? Gimme a break.
 

I said quantify. You probably don't know what that means. Let me help you:

quantify - express as a number or measure or quantity; "Can you quantify your results?"

I'm asking how you determine one player to be tougher than another, ESPECIALLY since Earl has missed numerous games in his career due to injury.

Sugashane wrote:
you have proven yourself inept and I will exit this thread, because you're too dumb and smug to realize you're clueless. Yet everyone else has. Laughing


Laughing yeah, I think I'm done "arguing" here as well.

I'll leave you with this little nugget from the Daily Herald's review of day 2 at minicamp:

Quote:
Bears rookie wide receiver Marquess Wilson doesn’t look like a lowly seventh-round pick.

Nothing against seventh-round picks, but Wilson is tall, fast and fluid, exhibits soft hands, excellent agility and the timing and leaping ability to win jump balls
.
Fine I'll quantify it for you; grit, will, determination. Toughness is going back into a game after suffering a life threatening injury. Toughness is going out on that field and giving 100% of whatever you have. Toughness is the mental and physical fortitude to overcome adversity (like having your job taken away through no fault of your own) That's toughness, Earl has displayed it in spades, Wilson clearly demonstrated he lacks it. Now insult my intelligence some more, b/c that clearly demonstrates how superior you are.

Sup, that's still not a quantification. And also, Wilson has actually never "clearly demonstrated" that he lacks toughness. His problems stem primarily from a divide between him and his coaching staff, which he eventually accused of abuse. Oddly enough, his head coach has a history of questionable coaching techniques. At this point, it's obvious you just have some sort of bias against Wilson; that, or you just really want to be right in this debate. Either way, it's going to come down to one thing.

The quote in red, provided by G08, is the first of many reports we'll hear about Wilson's talent. It's undeniable, and apparently he's already putting it on display. I trust Trestman and his system, so as long as we can trust our line to protect Jay and Jay to find the right guy, Marquess will be utilized and become a consistent contributor to this offense sometime near the middle of the season.

Prediction: Marquess Wilson will have more receptions than Earl Bennett in weeks 9-17.
If he catches one pass it will be more than Earl caught his rookie year. Wilson is a very interesting case and will stick with the Bears either on the 53 or the PC. He will be one of the most watched at training camp and in the pre-season. Should he catch a td he will be our next folk hero.

But I expect nothing significant from a rookie WR so don't be disappointed if Wilson fulfills that expectation should he be on the 53.

Bennett I have always liked but he is no lock to make this team. He has been a disappointment but the Bears stupid handling of him did him no favors.

I don't see any way he doesn't make the team this year. Even if he gets passed by Wilson (which I don't expect this year) he's good depth with a reasonable contract and who will play ST.
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I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 919
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
BonanzaHawk wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
G08 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
I really have to define tougher for you? Gimme a break.
 

I said quantify. You probably don't know what that means. Let me help you:

quantify - express as a number or measure or quantity; "Can you quantify your results?"

I'm asking how you determine one player to be tougher than another, ESPECIALLY since Earl has missed numerous games in his career due to injury.

Sugashane wrote:
you have proven yourself inept and I will exit this thread, because you're too dumb and smug to realize you're clueless. Yet everyone else has. Laughing


Laughing yeah, I think I'm done "arguing" here as well.

I'll leave you with this little nugget from the Daily Herald's review of day 2 at minicamp:

Quote:
Bears rookie wide receiver Marquess Wilson doesn’t look like a lowly seventh-round pick.

Nothing against seventh-round picks, but Wilson is tall, fast and fluid, exhibits soft hands, excellent agility and the timing and leaping ability to win jump balls
.
Fine I'll quantify it for you; grit, will, determination. Toughness is going back into a game after suffering a life threatening injury. Toughness is going out on that field and giving 100% of whatever you have. Toughness is the mental and physical fortitude to overcome adversity (like having your job taken away through no fault of your own) That's toughness, Earl has displayed it in spades, Wilson clearly demonstrated he lacks it. Now insult my intelligence some more, b/c that clearly demonstrates how superior you are.

Sup, that's still not a quantification. And also, Wilson has actually never "clearly demonstrated" that he lacks toughness. His problems stem primarily from a divide between him and his coaching staff, which he eventually accused of abuse. Oddly enough, his head coach has a history of questionable coaching techniques. At this point, it's obvious you just have some sort of bias against Wilson; that, or you just really want to be right in this debate. Either way, it's going to come down to one thing.

The quote in red, provided by G08, is the first of many reports we'll hear about Wilson's talent. It's undeniable, and apparently he's already putting it on display. I trust Trestman and his system, so as long as we can trust our line to protect Jay and Jay to find the right guy, Marquess will be utilized and become a consistent contributor to this offense sometime near the middle of the season.

Prediction: Marquess Wilson will have more receptions than Earl Bennett in weeks 9-17.
If he catches one pass it will be more than Earl caught his rookie year. Wilson is a very interesting case and will stick with the Bears either on the 53 or the PC. He will be one of the most watched at training camp and in the pre-season. Should he catch a td he will be our next folk hero.

But I expect nothing significant from a rookie WR so don't be disappointed if Wilson fulfills that expectation should he be on the 53.

Bennett I have always liked but he is no lock to make this team. He has been a disappointment but the Bears stupid handling of him did him no favors.

I don't see any way he doesn't make the team this year. Even if he gets passed by Wilson (which I don't expect this year) he's good depth with a reasonable contract and who will play ST.


Does Earl play special teams?

He's not going anywhere; I'd be shocked if Earl doesn't make the team. He's a solid #3.
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WindyCity wrote:
McClellin is simply not very good. He is not big enough or strong enough to play at the NFL level. The Bears should move on.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 919
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:

For starters I think the comparison between Wilson & Denarius Moore is a pretty poor one…I don't think you can base a comparison on testing alone...Moore IMO is more explosive in his play on the field…he gets up to top speed quicker than Wilson does and is able to sink his hips and get out of his breaks quicker than Wilson…also doesn’t round off his routes as much as Wilson does…Wilson on the other hand is smoother in his movement but not as explosive…Wilson is a long strider which Moore isn’t…I would also say Wilson has better hands than Moore coming out of college and more savvy…


All I said was the following: If you look solely at the measurables (aside from height), you have a comparable athlete.

I then went on to very briefly describe how they are different football players.
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WindyCity wrote:
McClellin is simply not very good. He is not big enough or strong enough to play at the NFL level. The Bears should move on.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22525
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:

For starters I think the comparison between Wilson & Denarius Moore is a pretty poor one…I don't think you can base a comparison on testing alone...Moore IMO is more explosive in his play on the field…he gets up to top speed quicker than Wilson does and is able to sink his hips and get out of his breaks quicker than Wilson…also doesn’t round off his routes as much as Wilson does…Wilson on the other hand is smoother in his movement but not as explosive…Wilson is a long strider which Moore isn’t…I would also say Wilson has better hands than Moore coming out of college and more savvy…


All I said was the following: If you look solely at the measurables (aside from height), you have a [b]comparable athlete.[/b]

I then went on to very briefly describe how they are different football players.


But being comparable athletes isn’t a basis for making a player comparison…two guys having the same athletic ability doesn’t even mean they have the same potential…and as I said as much as they are similar in tests their style of play on the field is very different.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7861
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:

For starters I think the comparison between Wilson & Denarius Moore is a pretty poor one…I don't think you can base a comparison on testing alone...Moore IMO is more explosive in his play on the field…he gets up to top speed quicker than Wilson does and is able to sink his hips and get out of his breaks quicker than Wilson…also doesn’t round off his routes as much as Wilson does…Wilson on the other hand is smoother in his movement but not as explosive…Wilson is a long strider which Moore isn’t…I would also say Wilson has better hands than Moore coming out of college and more savvy…


All I said was the following: If you look solely at the measurables (aside from height), you have a [b]comparable athlete.[/b]

I then went on to very briefly describe how they are different football players.


But being comparable athletes isn’t a basis for making a player comparison…two guys having the same athletic ability doesn’t even mean they have the same potential…and as I said as much as they are similar in tests their style of play on the field is very different.
We don't know how Wilson will play in the NFL. Dennis McKinnon had problems with the Fla. St. coaches and played little so he was not drafted. He turned out to be an excellent pro. Wilson could do the same.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:

For starters I think the comparison between Wilson & Denarius Moore is a pretty poor one…I don't think you can base a comparison on testing alone...Moore IMO is more explosive in his play on the field…he gets up to top speed quicker than Wilson does and is able to sink his hips and get out of his breaks quicker than Wilson…also doesn’t round off his routes as much as Wilson does…Wilson on the other hand is smoother in his movement but not as explosive…Wilson is a long strider which Moore isn’t…I would also say Wilson has better hands than Moore coming out of college and more savvy…


All I said was the following: If you look solely at the measurables (aside from height), you have a [b]comparable athlete.[/b]

I then went on to very briefly describe how they are different football players.


But being comparable athletes isn’t a basis for making a player comparison…two guys having the same athletic ability doesn’t even mean they have the same potential…and as I said as much as they are similar in tests their style of play on the field is very different.


............................................I know. That's why I went on to describe how they are different football players Laughing

All those numbers give you is an idea of athleticism, it puts a quantifiable metric on traits like burst, cutting ability, burst etc etc etc.
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WindyCity wrote:
McClellin is simply not very good. He is not big enough or strong enough to play at the NFL level. The Bears should move on.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22525
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:

For starters I think the comparison between Wilson & Denarius Moore is a pretty poor one…I don't think you can base a comparison on testing alone...Moore IMO is more explosive in his play on the field…he gets up to top speed quicker than Wilson does and is able to sink his hips and get out of his breaks quicker than Wilson…also doesn’t round off his routes as much as Wilson does…Wilson on the other hand is smoother in his movement but not as explosive…Wilson is a long strider which Moore isn’t…I would also say Wilson has better hands than Moore coming out of college and more savvy…


All I said was the following: If you look solely at the measurables (aside from height), you have a [b]comparable athlete.[/b]

I then went on to very briefly describe how they are different football players.


But being comparable athletes isn’t a basis for making a player comparison…two guys having the same athletic ability doesn’t even mean they have the same potential…and as I said as much as they are similar in tests their style of play on the field is very different.


............................................I know. That's why I went on to describe how they are different football players Laughing

All those numbers give you is an idea[/b] of athleticism, it puts a quantifiable metric on traits like burst, cutting ability, burst etc etc etc.


All things that tape says they don't do similarly lol.
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G08


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil Emery on Sirius Radio:

"Extremely excited about Marquess Wilson. He's a vertical player. Doesn't run what I would call an outstanding 40 time but he plays very fast. He's an unusual guy in that he's a long-strider but he can really come to balance, he can really bend-and-break in and out of his cuts very well for a person that has the kind of length that he has. He's a high-point catcher with a lot of catch range."
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WindyCity wrote:
McClellin is simply not very good. He is not big enough or strong enough to play at the NFL level. The Bears should move on.
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Roadrunner


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Phil Emery on Sirius Radio:

"Extremely excited about Marquess Wilson. He's a vertical player. Doesn't run what I would call an outstanding 40 time but he plays very fast. He's an unusual guy in that he's a long-strider but he can really come to balance, he can really bend-and-break in and out of his cuts very well for a person that has the kind of length that he has. He's a high-point catcher with a lot of catch range."


Sure sounds as though Wilson is currently in their plans to help stretch the field and make opponents defend the entire field. He does not have to be a world class receiver to be part of their plans to keep defenses honest.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the best answer: lets see what happens on Bourbonnais.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
Here's the best answer: lets see what happens on Bourbonnais.
Thank You!
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Phil Emery on Sirius Radio:

"Extremely excited about Marquess Wilson. He's a vertical player. Doesn't run what I would call an outstanding 40 time but he plays very fast. He's an unusual guy in that he's a long-strider but he can really come to balance, he can really bend-and-break in and out of his cuts very well for a person that has the kind of length that he has. He's a high-point catcher with a lot of catch range."
You realize that Phil is going to talk nicely about every player on the roster right? You think he is going to disparage his 7th round draft pick? Hell I'm pretty sure there was nice blurb about Austin Signor when he was signed, and unless Robbie Gould's leg falls off I can't see Signor making the team either.
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