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Why is John Carlson still a Viking?
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
Who cares this year.

Who cares period? Carlson deserves another shot to redeem himself. What has Carlson done to get in tsk's craw? Did he spit in his cereal? There's nothing gained by cutting him now. He's not taking any time away from anyone either.

it's always funny when mods become regular members. and their posting style changes.

Laughing
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eman9416


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
Yes, Carlson had a tough year last year.. But only because he struggled with injuries.


Give him a chance this year, hopefully can replicate what he did in SEA. He's a great player IMO, and he's a homegrown talent as well.


Well he has been injury prone for awhile now and he didn't produce even when he was healthy. I say give him this year to prove himself and if he doesn't improve, cut him.
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Duff Man


Joined: 05 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eman9416 wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
Yes, Carlson had a tough year last year.. But only because he struggled with injuries.


Give him a chance this year, hopefully can replicate what he did in SEA. He's a great player IMO, and he's a homegrown talent as well.


Well he has been injury prone for awhile now and he didn't produce even when he was healthy. I say give him this year to prove himself and if he doesn't improve, cut him.


"injury prone for a while now" ? "didn't produce even when he was healthy"?

2008: 16 GP, 9 GS -- 55 receptions for 627 yards
2009: 16 GP, 16 GS -- 51 receptions for 571 yards
2010: 15 GP, 13 GS -- 31 receptions for 318 yards
2011/2012: his two injury ridden years


By no means is he putting up earth-shattering numbers, but he was a reliable target as a TE his first 3 years. And yes, his last two years have been tough with the injuries.. but all I'm saying is to not count him out yet, like so many pessimistic vikings fans are doing right now Confused
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those numbers are awful for what he is getting paid. Just an awful signing for that price. Terrible. and we knew it when it happened.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
and we knew it when it happened.

however, we don't know what the next year will be.

we really don't. anyone who says they do is just guessing.
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Bermuda Viking


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
and we knew it when it happened.

however, we don't know what the next year will be.

we really don't. anyone who says they do is just guessing.


After reading this whole thread VD just about sums it up.

The thread started because we are upset about giving this guy a big deal and getting nothing. I am very disappointed in Carlson. It has proved to be a poor signing. Even if he is awesome this year it will be likely he is cut for the offense has taken a new shape with Jennings and Patterson and our up and comers.

I just want the team to win more games as we all do. Carlson is a marked man, and simply insurance for Rudolph as far as I am concerned and he better produce for himself.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
and we knew it when it happened.

however, we don't know what the next year will be.

we really don't. anyone who says they do is just guessing.


we don't know if I could play TE either, but we ought to use past results to predict the likelihood of an outcome.

Look at those stats, and tell me a: would ou even sign him; b: what would you pay him.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting that something we might have considered a typical Spielman strategy last year -- signing a FA coming off an injury and hoping he bounces back (Carlson, Schwartz, Simpson all fit that pattern) -- didn't happen at all this year*. Schwartz has already moved on and it looks like Carlson and maybe Simpson will be gone by this time next year. Unsuccessful experiment, so far.

*unless you think Jennings's injury last year led to a FA discount, which I don't think so, not after what he did to us in the week 17 game.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
and we knew it when it happened.

however, we don't know what the next year will be.

we really don't. anyone who says they do is just guessing.


we don't know if I could play TE either, but we ought to use past results to predict the likelihood of an outcome.

Look at those stats, and tell me a: would ou even sign him; b: what would you pay him.

i think Krauser answered your question in the next post - that signing Carlson was a decent enough strategy at the time (Carlson, Schwartz, Simpson), albeit a risky one that did not/will not/has not yet paid off, and Spielman has since developed better strategies.

so we can concentrate on the mistake of the past, or the improvement of the present.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
It's interesting that something we might have considered a typical Spielman strategy last year -- signing a FA coming off an injury and hoping he bounces back (Carlson, Schwartz, Simpson all fit that pattern) -- didn't happen at all this year*. Schwartz has already moved on and it looks like Carlson and maybe Simpson will be gone by this time next year. Unsuccessful experiment, so far.

*unless you think Jennings's injury last year led to a FA discount, which I don't think so, not after what he did to us in the week 17 game.


The FA G signed from Indy, Seth Olsen, who is also a former Viking, was injured last year.

Mauti is coming off an injury.

The experiment continues. Some success is likely, eventually.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mauti wasn't a free agent, and probably won't be expected to do anything more this year than play special teams.

Olsen isn't expected to start, he's signed for depth.

Last year we projected those 3 FAs to play significant roles in the offense (and offered decent money). Didn't happen. Doesn't mean it was a bad idea, but it didn't work.

The fact that Spielman hasn't taken the same approach this year may have more to do with the improvement of the team (fewer holes) than an intention to change strategies.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
Mauti wasn't a free agent, and probably won't be expected to do anything more this year than play special teams.

Olsen isn't expected to start, he's signed for depth.

Last year we projected those 3 FAs to play significant roles in the offense (and offered decent money). Didn't happen. Doesn't mean it was a bad idea, but it didn't work.

The fact that Spielman hasn't taken the same approach this year may have more to do with the improvement of the team (fewer holes) than an intention to change strategies.


Carlson and Schwartz weren't signed to start either.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
Carlson and Schwartz weren't signed to start either.


Most people expected Schwartz would be given the chance to start over Fusco. Schwartz certainly did, or he wouldn't have signed here (which is one reason he didn't want to re-sign this year).

Here's a typical article from the signing projecting Schwartz as a starter in 2012: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/vikings-agree-to-deal-with-guard-geoff-schwartz/

Carlson was supposed to be on the field a lot and a major contributor in 2 TE sets, which were supposed to be the cornerstone of Musgrave's offense. That's why he got $25 million for 5 years.

Meanwhile Olsen signed for barely more than the vet minimum, only $20K guaranteed, and no one's projecting him as the starter. Doubt he'll make the team.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
Mauti wasn't a free agent, and probably won't be expected to do anything more this year than play special teams.

Olsen isn't expected to start, he's signed for depth.

Last year we projected those 3 FAs to play significant roles in the offense (and offered decent money). Didn't happen. Doesn't mean it was a bad idea, but it didn't work.

The fact that Spielman hasn't taken the same approach this year may have more to do with the improvement of the team (fewer holes) than an intention to change strategies.


Agree.

The larger number of holes and fewer resources to fill them with meant there needed to be some risk-taking on injured players to try to fill all those holes last year.

Looking forward, it seems there will be less risk-taking by Spielman in terms of injured players and players with character concerns.

It seems like this is the inflection point in the rebuilding process, where fewer, high quality players are needed to replace retiring players, and none or very few are needed to fill 'glaring holes of talent deficiency'.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why was he signed ?

Argument can be made Rick didnt know how effective AP would be after the injury or if he would be on PUP. Likely didnt know that Felton was going to deserve all that playing time as well, let alone Rhet Ellison.

Still didn't like the signing but i can see a bit why it was done at the time.
He still likely wont have a role this year under ideal circumstance.
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