Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Pick your starters
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5424
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Raidin wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Been trying to think of who Sio Moore reminds me off. Not quite Von Miller. Finally it hit me. Duh. Clay Matthews. Except Sio had better college production and performed better in every combine drill as far as I know.

Clay has an inch or two in height but other than that they are the same player coming out except Sio is a little better in coverage imo.





Only in the Vert and broad. Clay was better in the 3 cone and shuttle. Moores numbers in the 3 cone were actually pretty terrible. He got 7.49(Clay got 6.91).

Your are right about the 3 cone and shuttle. However Moore's numbers were better in the 40, bench press, broad jump and vert. Which are the explosion drills. Also lets not forgot Moore packed on 20+ pounds right before the combine. Maybe helped in bench but would have hurt him if anything in the others.

But beyond the numbers just the type of player and skill set are very similar.




The bench isn't an explosion drill. Also I think there 40 times were the same with clay's 10 yard split being far better which is a good sign of their explosiveness. The most important measure for a rusher would be 3 cone, shuttle and 10 yard split. Matthews is miles ahead of Moore is all three unfortunately.
_________________
raidr4life wrote:
Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33650
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Raidin wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Been trying to think of who Sio Moore reminds me off. Not quite Von Miller. Finally it hit me. Duh. Clay Matthews. Except Sio had better college production and performed better in every combine drill as far as I know.

Clay has an inch or two in height but other than that they are the same player coming out except Sio is a little better in coverage imo.





Only in the Vert and broad. Clay was better in the 3 cone and shuttle. Moores numbers in the 3 cone were actually pretty terrible. He got 7.49(Clay got 6.91).

Your are right about the 3 cone and shuttle. However Moore's numbers were better in the 40, bench press, broad jump and vert. Which are the explosion drills. Also lets not forgot Moore packed on 20+ pounds right before the combine. Maybe helped in bench but would have hurt him if anything in the others.

But beyond the numbers just the type of player and skill set are very similar.




The bench isn't an explosion drill. Also I think there 40 times were the same with clay's 10 yard split being far better which is a good sign of their explosiveness. The most important measure for a rusher would be 3 cone, shuttle and 10 yard split. Matthews is miles ahead of Moore is all three unfortunately.


I agree. Moore can rush the passer, but I feel like he's more of a balanced linebacker than CMIII. Which is fine; he's just not a dominant pass rusher. I'll take on-field impact from him any way I can get it.
_________________

Professor Oak wrote:
Don't listen to the naysayers, S&B88.

SoS is in fact French. I've frenched his toast a couple of times. I think I would know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33650
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Wow, you are really biased against Ausberry. All you've ever done is rip on the guy for as long as I can remember. You always jump on his back for his good plays as few as they are.


I wouldn't say it's bias. He's simply done nothing notable for me to say he has a chance at being a TE for the Raiders.

A lot of people here want him to start and I don't get it. He doesn't show anything in practice, so why should he get a look to start.

Make or break this year IMO. Year 3 is when Reece started to mold into a decent option at FB. Ausberry needs to show out, or he's done here.


What has any other TE on the roster done to say they have a chance at being a TE for the Raiders? What was Ausberry going to do last year with Myers getting production? His niche is as a receiver and STer. He had no chance to contribute other than special teams.

I agree he needs to show something this year to stay but you're making him out to be some piece of crap oaf with no reason for being around.
_________________

Professor Oak wrote:
Don't listen to the naysayers, S&B88.

SoS is in fact French. I've frenched his toast a couple of times. I think I would know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22669
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Wow, you are really biased against Ausberry. All you've ever done is rip on the guy for as long as I can remember. You always jump on his back for his good plays as few as they are.


I wouldn't say it's bias. He's simply done nothing notable for me to say he has a chance at being a TE for the Raiders.

A lot of people here want him to start and I don't get it. He doesn't show anything in practice, so why should he get a look to start.

Make or break this year IMO. Year 3 is when Reece started to mold into a decent option at FB. Ausberry needs to show out, or he's done here.


What has any other TE on the roster done to say they have a chance at being a TE for the Raiders? What was Ausberry going to do last year with Myers getting production? His niche is as a receiver and STer. He had no chance to contribute other than special teams.

I agree he needs to show something this year to stay but you're making him out to be some piece of crap oaf with no reason for being around.


The positions is wide open first off, so he has another chance. But, he had a chance last year in a TE friendly offense and not only did he not get much run. Then, they draft 2 TEs this year.

To me, that says he's not really showing improvement in practice to be used in games or factor as an option going forward.

He had a chance to contribute. He didn't win reps in practice. Myers did and Gordon was also higher on the depth chart.

I don't buy into blaming Knapp/Allen. IMO, the best players were on the field and Ausberry wasn't one of them. And honestly, what did he ever do? 1 play in the Miami game and some preseason highlights? I just don't get how people became so enamored with him.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22669
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10096
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Wow, you are really biased against Ausberry. All you've ever done is rip on the guy for as long as I can remember. You always jump on his back for his good plays as few as they are.


I wouldn't say it's bias. He's simply done nothing notable for me to say he has a chance at being a TE for the Raiders.

A lot of people here want him to start and I don't get it. He doesn't show anything in practice, so why should he get a look to start.

Make or break this year IMO. Year 3 is when Reece started to mold into a decent option at FB. Ausberry needs to show out, or he's done here.


What has any other TE on the roster done to say they have a chance at being a TE for the Raiders? What was Ausberry going to do last year with Myers getting production? His niche is as a receiver and STer. He had no chance to contribute other than special teams.

I agree he needs to show something this year to stay but you're making him out to be some piece of crap oaf with no reason for being around.


The positions is wide open first off, so he has another chance. But, he had a chance last year in a TE friendly offense and not only did he not get much run. Then, they draft 2 TEs this year.

To me, that says he's not really showing improvement in practice to be used in games or factor as an option going forward.

He had a chance to contribute. He didn't win reps in practice. Myers did and Gordon was also higher on the depth chart.

I don't buy into blaming Knapp/Allen. IMO, the best players were on the field and Ausberry wasn't one of them. And honestly, what did he ever do? 1 play in the Miami game and some preseason highlights? I just don't get how people became so enamored with him.


Not saying I'm enamored with him, because I'm not, at all. But it's actually pretty easy to see, especially from a casual fans perspective. He has the measurables to be a mismatch nightmare, and a big play receiving threat. The way the league is going with these hybrid WR type Tight Ends, and being that Ausberry is a converted WR, he sure looked the part and it's quite obvious why people were hoping he would pan out and live up to that potential.
_________________
O A K L A N D R A I D E R S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33650
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


See, this would be fine logic but it really doesn't apply to last year. Do you not recall that Reece had to wait for McFadden and Goodson getting hurt before he got a role on offense? Myers was actually producing so if its no broke, why fix it? I already said Ausberry's niche is as a receiver and STer, With Myers playing well as a receiver and Gordon's blocking ability I don't see what's so hard to understand. There wasn't room for him last year other than to force him in 'just because'. Which I agree, would be idiotic.

I don't know who is so enamored with Ausberry, but if you don't see whats to like about him then: LOL.
_________________

Professor Oak wrote:
Don't listen to the naysayers, S&B88.

SoS is in fact French. I've frenched his toast a couple of times. I think I would know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10096
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


Agreed, but the guy was a 7th round draft pick who had to learn a new position and put on a good amount of weight. Year three is the normal breakout year, so I'd at least give the guy a shot before using the "he wasn't up to speed in practice" excuse. Some guys just take longer to get it, see DMC and even Heyward Bey to an extent.

Again, I'm not an Ausberry homer, but the reason to defend him is there. Seems like you are so quick to write him off, but the truth is he was very raw at the position coming in and obviously needed some time.

Now, if he shows nothing this TC, with the added competition then I agree with you that he could very well be cut, but I don't see any kind of bias against him, If he comes out and tears it up, he will make the team.
_________________
O A K L A N D R A I D E R S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22669
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


See, this would be fine logic but it really doesn't apply to last year. Do you not recall that Reece had to wait for McFadden and Goodson getting hurt before he got a role on offense? Myers was actually producing so if its no broke, why fix it? I already said Ausberry's niche is as a receiver and STer, With Myers playing well as a receiver and Gordon's blocking ability I don't see what's so hard to understand. There wasn't room for him last year other than to force him in 'just because'. Which I agree, would be idiotic.

I don't know who is so enamored with Ausberry, but if you don't see whats to like about him then: LOL.


But he's not even a good ST player? Gordon is, but Ausberry? What's he done on STs?

I can see why some find potential in him as a converted WR, but he's certainly shown very little and again the fact the staff drafted 2 TEs whatever they are seeing in practice must not be enough either.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22669
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


Agreed, but the guy was a 7th round draft pick who had to learn a new position and put on a good amount of weight. Year three is the normal breakout year, so I'd at least give the guy a shot before using the "he wasn't up to speed in practice" excuse. Some guys just take longer to get it, see DMC and even Heyward Bey to an extent.

Again, I'm not an Ausberry homer, but the reason to defend him is there. Seems like you are so quick to write him off, but the truth is he was very raw at the position coming in and obviously needed some time.

Now, if he shows nothing this TC, with the added competition then I agree with you that he could very well be cut, but I don't see any kind of bias against him, If he comes out and tears it up, he will make the team.


I agree, which is why I said it's make or break time for him as a converted WR.

And I hope he does get it and burst onto the scene.

My argument was more to the fact that he's done nothing to date but some were saying he should start and get chances, etc. But what's he done to earn them?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21678
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


Agreed, but the guy was a 7th round draft pick who had to learn a new position and put on a good amount of weight. Year three is the normal breakout year, so I'd at least give the guy a shot before using the "he wasn't up to speed in practice" excuse. Some guys just take longer to get it, see DMC and even Heyward Bey to an extent.

Again, I'm not an Ausberry homer, but the reason to defend him is there. Seems like you are so quick to write him off, but the truth is he was very raw at the position coming in and obviously needed some time.

Now, if he shows nothing this TC, with the added competition then I agree with you that he could very well be cut, but I don't see any kind of bias against him, If he comes out and tears it up, he will make the team.


I agree, which is why I said it's make or break time for him as a converted WR.

And I hope he does get it and burst onto the scene.

My argument was more to the fact that he's done nothing to date but some were saying he should start and get chances, etc. But what's he done to earn them?


Last year in a losing season if you on the roster you should have got a chance to play. Just like Pryor and some others did. Im no ausberry fan but the logic you have to perform in practice before you play is silly to me in cases like last year. Give him a shot on the field and see what he can do. With that said Ausberry wont be on the team much longer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14318
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


That notion was on full dispaly last year. Can you explain to me why Goodson didn't get more playing time last year? Pryor didn't get just a package to get use of his skill set in our struggling redzone offense? Bergstrom couldn't get on the field when our Gs where underperforming? Taiwan Jones didn't get a carry because he fumbled on a kick return?
I listened to Knapp's PC every week and what was clear to me is he was trying to save his arse so he wasn't going to go with any of those less experienced guys.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5370
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:

The positions is wide open first off, so he has another chance. But, he had a chance last year in a TE friendly offense and not only did he not get much run. Then, they draft 2 TEs this year.


Thats the biggest sign that they dont see him as a starting TE, IMO. I know Reggie likes BPA but I dont see him taking two of them if he felt anywhere close to comfortable with Ausberry. I see the appeal, he has the size and speed to cause problems for a defense, but the staff must have seen something (or have not seen something) in practice to cause them to not give him PT and to bring in two more TEs via the draft.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22669
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


That notion was on full dispaly last year. Can you explain to me why Goodson didn't get more playing time last year? Pryor didn't get just a package to get use of his skill set in our struggling redzone offense? Bergstrom couldn't get on the field when our Gs where underperforming? Taiwan Jones didn't get a carry because he fumbled on a kick return?
I listened to Knapp's PC every week and what was clear to me is he was trying to save his arse so he wasn't going to go with any of those less experienced guys.


In order:

-Goodson was injured the same week as McFadden.
-You don't take your vet QB off the field. 'Packages' are for teams without a valid QB.
-Bergstrom was the #95 pick in the draft and needed to develop. Did he earn playing time in practice?
-Jones was passed up by Stewart and Reece on the depth chart.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14318
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Further, this notion that a player isn't getting a chance or seeing playing time, etc. as if there isn't a reason is mind boggling to me.

Reps, postions, "chances" are earned in practice. If you are playing well, you see the field.

This notion that a player should play 'just because' is something else.


That notion was on full dispaly last year. Can you explain to me why Goodson didn't get more playing time last year? Pryor didn't get just a package to get use of his skill set in our struggling redzone offense? Bergstrom couldn't get on the field when our Gs where underperforming? Taiwan Jones didn't get a carry because he fumbled on a kick return?
I listened to Knapp's PC every week and what was clear to me is he was trying to save his arse so he wasn't going to go with any of those less experienced guys.


In order:

-Goodson was injured the same week as McFadden.
-You don't take your vet QB off the field. 'Packages' are for teams without a valid QB.
-Bergstrom was the #95 pick in the draft and needed to develop. Did he earn playing time in practice?
-Jones was passed up by Stewart and Reece on the depth chart.


When Goodson was still healthy, he was a lot more productive than McFadden. He was rarely used. It's obvious he's a better zone fit.

When you can't score TDs in the redzone, i don't see any reason not to try something else. That's not about Palmer or Pryor, it's about getting creative to try to improve the results.

I can't comment on Bergstrom's play in practice. He's just another younger guy who didn't get a shot.

Jones was quickly phased out of the offense because once again Knapp was too scared of what might go wrong.

When it comes to play calling and personnel management, it's my opinion Knapp was as conservative as they come.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group