Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Winston Justice visiting
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Laimbrane


Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3917
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
ManeLine


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 5010
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
Quote:
Besides Winston Justice, Lions also tried out Antoine Caldwell this week.


Justin Rogers ‏@Justin_Rogers
Quote:
Caldwell is a bigger center (310-315 pounds). He started six games for the Texans in 2012.


Quote:
Free agent OG Antoine Caldwell worked out for the Lions.

Caldwell, 27, started the first six games of the season at right guard for the Texans last season before being relegated to a reserve role. He has started 19 games over his career, and he has the ability to play all three interior positions. Caldwell would be solid veteran depth in Detroit.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5324/antoine-caldwell
_________________

Smack

Adopt A Lion - Ryan Broyles
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Focus seems to be on the OL. Depth is good, but quality is better.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
theuntouchable


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 9374
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.


I can understand Ansah to Avril being a stretch somewhat. Its hard to say what we have in ziggy but we know hes faster, quickwr, stronger and more explosive than Avril. We also know that he fares better against the run and is stronger at the POA than Avril. Hand use is about a wash but we'll have to see if hes adept at making the strip sack. That was about the only thing I saw Avril do really well with and even that was wildly inconsistent.

KVB should not have played last year at all. Even in rotation.
_________________

MathMan wrote:
anyone around?

I feel..so cold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.


I can understand Ansah to Avril being a stretch somewhat. Its hard to say what we have in ziggy but we know hes faster, quickwr, stronger and more explosive than Avril. We also know that he fares better against the run and is stronger at the POA than Avril. Hand use is about a wash but we'll have to see if hes adept at making the strip sack. That was about the only thing I saw Avril do really well with and even that was wildly inconsistent.

KVB should not have played last year at all. Even in rotation.
We don't know that Ansah can play the run better from the wide 9, or in a 4-3, from the DE position. He did it either standing, or on the interior in a box. Totally different from holding the edge and having to contain inside/out.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
theuntouchable


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 9374
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.


I can understand Ansah to Avril being a stretch somewhat. Its hard to say what we have in ziggy but we know hes faster, quickwr, stronger and more explosive than Avril. We also know that he fares better against the run and is stronger at the POA than Avril. Hand use is about a wash but we'll have to see if hes adept at making the strip sack. That was about the only thing I saw Avril do really well with and even that was wildly inconsistent.

KVB should not have played last year at all. Even in rotation.
We don't know that Ansah can play the run better from the wide 9, or in a 4-3, from the DE position. He did it either standing, or on the interior in a box. Totally different from holding the edge and having to contain inside/out.


Its a testament to how poor Avril was against the run.
_________________

MathMan wrote:
anyone around?

I feel..so cold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.


I can understand Ansah to Avril being a stretch somewhat. Its hard to say what we have in ziggy but we know hes faster, quickwr, stronger and more explosive than Avril. We also know that he fares better against the run and is stronger at the POA than Avril. Hand use is about a wash but we'll have to see if hes adept at making the strip sack. That was about the only thing I saw Avril do really well with and even that was wildly inconsistent.

KVB should not have played last year at all. Even in rotation.
We don't know that Ansah can play the run better from the wide 9, or in a 4-3, from the DE position. He did it either standing, or on the interior in a box. Totally different from holding the edge and having to contain inside/out.


Its a testament to how poor Avril was against the run.
In the case of Avril vs. Jones in run support, we're talking about the shiniest turd- he's been graded negatively every year of his career vs. the run.

At least Avril has 39.5 sacks and 16 FFs. Jones has 18.5 sacks and 7 FFs during that same time span. Avril also has 32 more tackles, they were both drafted in 2008.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
theuntouchable


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 9374
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.


I can understand Ansah to Avril being a stretch somewhat. Its hard to say what we have in ziggy but we know hes faster, quickwr, stronger and more explosive than Avril. We also know that he fares better against the run and is stronger at the POA than Avril. Hand use is about a wash but we'll have to see if hes adept at making the strip sack. That was about the only thing I saw Avril do really well with and even that was wildly inconsistent.

KVB should not have played last year at all. Even in rotation.
We don't know that Ansah can play the run better from the wide 9, or in a 4-3, from the DE position. He did it either standing, or on the interior in a box. Totally different from holding the edge and having to contain inside/out.


Its a testament to how poor Avril was against the run.
In the case of Avril vs. Jones in run support, we're talking about the shiniest turd- he's been graded negatively every year of his career vs. the run.

At least Avril 39.5 sacks and 16 FFs. Jones has 18.5 sacks and 7 FFs during that same time span. Avril also has 32 more tackles, they were both drafted in 2008.


I wasnt comparing Avril to Jones nor did I even come close to that. Hell I didnt even bring Jones into the argument.

Avril got a good chunk of his sacks from whatever joke the vikings and bears put at RT. Outside of those games, avril was nothing to write home about. You can cite pff or any stats you like, theres a reason the organization didnt work that hard to keep him. Unless Ansah is terrible, it will be an improvement over Avril. Avril was good at stripping the ball (on occasion) but that is the only trait he possessed that stood out. That and the intensity in which he punches his chest after getting a sack.
_________________

MathMan wrote:
anyone around?

I feel..so cold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
theuntouchable wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Laimbrane wrote:
I don't think you can understate how much of an upgrade simply not having KVB will be for the line. He played alongside two of the best DTs in the game, and still managed to be regularly terrible. Avril, on the other hand, benefited from Suh and Fairley in the exact way you would expect, but he was really nothing special, either.

Jones > KVB
Ansah ~= Avril (right now)

I think the position is already better than it was last year.
Yeah, both of those admissions are stretches. Jones has never shown to be more than an adequate backup- not even as good as Lo-Jack in that role. I truly find it ridiculous that anyone would claim that Ansah is already a wash with Avril.


I can understand Ansah to Avril being a stretch somewhat. Its hard to say what we have in ziggy but we know hes faster, quickwr, stronger and more explosive than Avril. We also know that he fares better against the run and is stronger at the POA than Avril. Hand use is about a wash but we'll have to see if hes adept at making the strip sack. That was about the only thing I saw Avril do really well with and even that was wildly inconsistent.

KVB should not have played last year at all. Even in rotation.
We don't know that Ansah can play the run better from the wide 9, or in a 4-3, from the DE position. He did it either standing, or on the interior in a box. Totally different from holding the edge and having to contain inside/out.


Its a testament to how poor Avril was against the run.
In the case of Avril vs. Jones in run support, we're talking about the shiniest turd- he's been graded negatively every year of his career vs. the run.

At least Avril 39.5 sacks and 16 FFs. Jones has 18.5 sacks and 7 FFs during that same time span. Avril also has 32 more tackles, they were both drafted in 2008.


I wasnt comparing Avril to Jones nor did I even come close to that. Hell I didnt even bring Jones into the argument.

Avril got a good chunk of his sacks from whatever joke the vikings and bears put at RT. Outside of those games, avril was nothing to write home about. You can cite pff or any stats you like, theres a reason the organization didnt work that hard to keep him. Unless Ansah is terrible, it will be an improvement over Avril. Avril was good at stripping the ball (on occasion) but that is the only trait he possessed that stood out. That and the intensity in which he punches his chest after getting a sack.
You're right, I got off track- blame in on the Guinness Wink

Maybe Ansah comes in and plays the run well, and at the same time does nothing from a pass rushing standpoint. That's what I'm saying, we don't know, he's a raw unfinished product. Avril is a proven player who completely outperformed his draft position. A player of his caliber would've been expected to easily go 1st round if you could've predicted he'd a produced the way that he did.

A great many of prospects came into the league with potential and completely busted. Until I see Ansah produce on the field, I see it as a complete stretch to consider him a wash with a guy who's been franchised already in his career.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
theuntouchable


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 9374
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as I said in my original post, I understand that position. I disagree but I understand. My stance is that, sure, he "outplayed" his 3rd round draft choice because he was able to accumulate sexy stats against poor competition. However, im not sad to see him go because if he was up against above average or better starters, he did almost nothing.

Avril racked up a good chunk of his sexy stats against bad players. Im not enamored by that and I dont see it as a huge loss. Sure, Ansah could bust but I think the possibility of him performing adequately and better than Avril are very high.
_________________

MathMan wrote:
anyone around?

I feel..so cold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tippitover


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 543
Location: 313
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont we have enough ansah threads to argue in? do we have to turn every thread into an ansah one? I enjoy the conversation but it just irks me when I go to a thread about winston justice though I dont really expect much and see its all about ansah.... god we need some football to start soon so we can have more to talk about.
_________________

Thanks to Smack for the sig!

Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tippitover wrote:
dont we have enough ansah threads to argue in? do we have to turn every thread into an ansah one? I enjoy the conversation but it just irks me when I go to a thread about winston justice though I dont really expect much and see its all about ansah.... god we need some football to start soon so we can have more to talk about.
Lol. Think it went from, "who cares about Justice", "go after Freeney".

Then someone made the point that our OT's are in worst shape than our DE's. Then rabble rabble rabble Fox/Hilliard sucks. Rabble rabble rabble Jason Jones a backup and Ansah's raw and hasn't proven anything.

Oh well, such is the Lion's Den.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
IDOG_det


Moderator
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 27648
Location: #JDI
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tippitover wrote:
dont we have enough ansah threads to argue in? do we have to turn every thread into an ansah one? I enjoy the conversation but it just irks me when I go to a thread about winston justice though I dont really expect much and see its all about ansah.... god we need some football to start soon so we can have more to talk about.
You can never have enough of Ansah
_________________
2014 Adopt-A-Lion #1: Eric Ebron
2014 Adopt-A-Lion #2: Martin Mayhew



R.I.P. Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theuntouchable


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 9374
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
tippitover wrote:
dont we have enough ansah threads to argue in? do we have to turn every thread into an ansah one? I enjoy the conversation but it just irks me when I go to a thread about winston justice though I dont really expect much and see its all about ansah.... god we need some football to start soon so we can have more to talk about.
Lol. Think it went from, "who cares about Justice", "go after Freeney".

Then someone made the point that our OT's are in worst shape than our DE's. Then rabble rabble rabble Fox/Hilliard sucks. Rabble rabble rabble Jason Jones a backup and Ansah's raw and hasn't proven anything.

Oh well, such is the Lion's Den.


Lmao its what happens. To be fair I think this is the only real ansah argument ive taken part of in a while.
_________________

MathMan wrote:
anyone around?

I feel..so cold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group