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2014 College Prospects Thread
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 12230
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
roar2014 wrote:
Is anyone else really intrigued by Ra'shade Hageman and Timmy Jernigan! I think they both have potential to be very good players in this league


Once i get my big board finished up i'll post it, but i have Hageman rated as a top 10 prospect and the top DT/34DE in the draft. He needs some work, but his physical gifts are exceptional to the point that i don't consider him a huge risk as he'll be a solid player just based on his talent alone.



Will be putting my board up once it's completed, which will hopefully be tonight but at very least the weekend.


Hagemann is my number 2 behind Aaron Donald
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Victor Cruz Pun wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 9240
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
germ-x wrote:
roar2014 wrote:
Is anyone else really intrigued by Ra'shade Hageman and Timmy Jernigan! I think they both have potential to be very good players in this league


Once i get my big board finished up i'll post it, but i have Hageman rated as a top 10 prospect and the top DT/34DE in the draft. He needs some work, but his physical gifts are exceptional to the point that i don't consider him a huge risk as he'll be a solid player just based on his talent alone.



Will be putting my board up once it's completed, which will hopefully be tonight but at very least the weekend.


Hagemann is my number 2 behind Aaron Donald


I like Donald too, but he scares me a little bit physically. I could see him having a Geno Atkins type impact along the interior and i could also see him as not much more than a situational player and a liability on more snaps than not in the NFL.

I have the same opinion on Donald as i did on Melvin Ingram in 2012. I really like both players and will be rooting for them, but if i were the GM of a team i would have a tough time pulling the trigger on them in the 1st round because of physical limitations.
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 9240
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, i was listening to a few Greg Cosell podcasts on the draft and here were a few prospects he pointed out.

- CJ Mosley appeared to be one of his favorite prospects in this draft. He stated that Mosley was arguably the most complete player he had evaluated. He said he's a 3 down player in any scheme and at both WLB and MLB in the 4/3.

- He liked Darqueze Dennard the best of all the CB's. He said while Dennard may not have lit up the combine, his on field movement skills and understanding of the game are ahead of everyone else.

- Cosell was also high on Kyle Fuller and said he saw him as a slight notch below Dennard. Like Dennard, he believes Fuller can play any coverage technique, move into the slot, and be a good run support CB.

- Cosell seemed to definitely see the hype surrounding Justin Gilbert, but didn't appear nearly as high on him as a lot of other draftniks. He seemed to believe there is a lot of work that still needs to be done with Gilbert and that his on field movement skills/instincts aren't on par with Dennard's or Fuller's.

- Of all the CB's he believes physically Bradley Roby is the most talented. He didn't really get into his issues, just merely pointed out he had lapses, but that from a size/speed/fluidity standpoint Roby was the best and very intriguing because of it.

- Cosell didn't get much into Jason Verrett either, but he really likes him, saying multiple times, "He's arguably the best CB in this draft." He still believes that Verrett is a likely nickel CB and stated NFL teams would prefer not to put smaller DB's on the outside.

- Finally, Cosell shared very similar thoughts on Ryan Shazier as others. An exceptional talent who on tape he believes is a tick slow recognizing and reacting to the play in front of him. He also said that 4.3 speed between the tackles won't make up for that tick late in the NFL. He also didn't specifically mention Shazier as a 4/3 MLB, but he said he hasn't seen Shazier ever shy away from filling a hole or taking on a block.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19487
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
Will be putting my board up once it's completed, which will hopefully be tonight but at very least the weekend.

We will all be waiting with bated breath. Smile
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big_palooka:

bhslinebacker wrote:
AAA is right, as he usually is.
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bobdevine


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 3025
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
- Of all the CB's he believes physically Bradley Roby is the most talented. He didn't really get into his issues, just merely pointed out he had lapses, but that from a size/speed/fluidity standpoint Roby was the best and very intriguing because of it..


Roby might drop on some draft boards if this story gets bigger. Police charged him with OVI when he was found passed out in a car. While the cops smelled alcohol and he failed a sobriety test, Roby's blood test did not show that he was intoxicated.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2014/04/24/columbus-bradley-roby-ovi-charge.html

This is probably a non-story, but in the two weeks before the draft, even the hint of a problem might scare some teams.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 12230
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
Will be putting my board up once it's completed, which will hopefully be tonight but at very least the weekend.

We will all be waiting with bated breath. Smile


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uhCfAfreDPIWqdPeK_lMK2QIqp6a1XQMFquQB9BT0A0/edit?usp=sharing


And here she is.


I ran my draft grades through a formula and then "weighted" it towards the Broncos by giving the edge to players with equal grades to Denver need positions.


I wanted Mosley to be higher than he is but his safety rating is low because of his medical red flags.
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Victor Cruz Pun wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


Fify.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19487
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty good overall, Paul.

But no way is Manziel the #1 QB, he has not just bust but spectacular bust written all over him. I foresee an epic, Vince Young-like fall from grace from "Johnny Football."
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big_palooka:

bhslinebacker wrote:
AAA is right, as he usually is.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Pretty good overall, Paul.

But no way is Manziel the #1 QB, he has not just bust but spectacular bust written all over him. I foresee an epic, Vince Young-like fall from grace from "Johnny Football."


I think if you can kinda look past the ego stuff, he's more Cam Newton than Vince Young. Not as a player I mean, the player comparison would be more Michael Vick/Russell Wilson, but in terms of he's a great college QB, with a massive ego, and that could cause him to be a huge bust, but look at what people on here said about Cam Newton, there was a crazy amount of character assassination and it was almost a universal opinion that he would be a bust.


Know this, if Manziel ends up busting, it will be because of the character/ego stuff, because I've watched a lot of his games, a lot of his tape courtesy of draftbreakdown.com, and he is one hell of a QB.

Typically when I evaluate QB's there are three traits I look for that make a QB "safe", and then once they achieve this I start looking at the physical tools etc

They are

1. Accuracy
2. Decision making
3. Pocket presence

Manziel is one of the most accurate QB's I've seen in college football. His pocket presence isn't great, but he gets a pass because his mobility means he doesn't need to be so polished in the pocket. I don't have much of a problem with his decision making.


So then I looked at the physsies, his arm is strong and I think he's a leader. He directs the ball well. He's the only guy in this draft that I think is going to be a surefire franchise QB
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Victor Cruz Pun wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


Fify.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I commend you in taking the riskier move of making Manziel your #1 QB. I have him ranked #3, but my gut wanted him #1. I think that he has at least a Doug Flutie like career, the type with roller coaster seasons where he throws up QB ratings in the mid/high 80's one season and low 70's the next. On the other hand, he has the talents to be a top 10 QB as well.

Disagree with Tyler Gaffney at #4 on your RB chart. Definatley plays slower than his timed speed. Falls into a day 3 category with James White, Marion Grice, Kapri Bibbs, etc. IMO.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 8861
Location: New Jersey... Props to Joe_Is_The_Best on the sig
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing Johnny Manziel has going against him is his size (which is also an injury problem), everything in terms of playing the quarterback position, he is elite. He has just as good an arm as everyone else, excellent pocket awareness, good touch and accuracy, and most importantly he has guts. I think once he can play inside the pocket, he'll be Brett Favre 2.0.
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roar2014


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 980
Location: Broncos Country
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you feel about Jason Verett in the first if all Denvers top targets are gone. I know he is small but he is physical and explosive speed

Our defense would not have to worry about the slot because we would have two players to cover if one were to go down.

Aqib Talib on the #1
Chris Harris on the #2
Verett in the slot and if Harris or Talib gets injured Webster slides too the #2 reciever and the other gets the #1
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 13063
Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
The only thing Johnny Manziel has going against him is his size (which is also an injury problem), everything in terms of playing the quarterback position, he is elite. He has just as good an arm as everyone else, excellent pocket awareness, good touch and accuracy, and most importantly he has guts. I think once he can play inside the pocket, he'll be Brett Favre 2.0.

I agree. I think (and hope) he does well in the NFL. Think he'll be a great leader too. Dude has that Tebow passion...accompanied with talent.
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree with a lot of what has been posted on Manziel and I really don't find anything he does to be elite for the position.

Manziel's arm as a whole (strength, touch, accuracy) is only above average. As an NFL QB his arm will by no means be anything special.

His pocket awareness is also incredibly poor. People get his running around and improvisation confused with good QB play. Manziel creates many of those plays for no reason because he has no sense of playing within the structure of the offense and often times begins running around before there is any breakdown in protection, he misses open WR'S because of this quite often.

IMO, Manziel needs a big makeover in his playing style in order to become a successful QB in the NFL. I do not agree with the Favre (and I've also read Rodgers) comparisons at all. I think they get thrown around because both Favre and Rodgers use their feet and improvise to make plays on occasion. Manziel doesn't have the elite arm strength that both Favre and Rodgers possessed. As much as their legs helped, you could argue their arms were even more beneficial. Allowing them to make more difficult throws and fit balls into windows most QB'S cant.

Manziel's upside, IMO, is more of a Jake Plummer. Solid player, nothing special.
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KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roar2014 wrote:
How do you feel about Jason Verett in the first if all Denvers top targets are gone. I know he is small but he is physical and explosive speed

Our defense would not have to worry about the slot because we would have two players to cover if one were to go down.

Aqib Talib on the #1
Chris Harris on the #2
Verett in the slot and if Harris or Talib gets injured Webster slides too the #2 reciever and the other gets the #1


He is scrappy something out secondary lacked but with Ward Talib and is we added Verett that would be a tough scrappy group of DB's
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Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want Verrett because I see him as a strictly nickel corner, same as Chris Harris.


I love Gilbert and Fuller but I'd be all over Roby is he slides to 31.


Honestly I'd rather have SJB in the second or Watkins in the third than Verrett
_________________
Victor Cruz Pun wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


Fify.
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