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LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 5688
Location: Nebraska
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, you can't tell me that the additions of Brinkley, Okafor, and Minter wouldnt have greatly improved this linebacking core if it wasn't for Washington being an idiot. And I know how you feel about the secondary and I disagree with. Gay was terrible, we add Cason who is better to take his spot. And I think Powers is as good if not better than Toler. Rhodes and Horton are the only big losses and Bowles hasn't been able to really show anything as a defensive coordinator in Philly, so I think he's a flip of the coin. Plus the depth we added in Armstrong, shaughnessy, etc, I think the talent is better than last year on D.

Call me an optimist but I have no clue what is coming for us this year either. We could be terrible we could be improved. I choose to beleive that we have improved.
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Last edited by LuckyNumber11 on Wed May 08, 2013 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EdgeoftheNest


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
See, I don't see the real talent on this defense. I think a lot of our deficiencies were masked by scheme and play calling.

Most of those weaknesses remain unaddressed, thing like; The inability of any of our OLB's to create pressure off the edge. The tendency of Darnell Dockett to freelance to try and make a play and ending up in the wrong spot. The lack of consistent tackling ability in our LB corps. The poor run discipline of our OLB's. Really if you actually look at the talent on this defense, it is not really outstanding;

Along the DL you have one truly exceptional player in Calais Campbell. He can do it all as a 5 tech, he still loses leverage more than you would want, but that happens when you are 6-8 playing an interior defensive line position. Dan Williams is a good clogger and is an old school Nose Guard who anchors well, but he struggles to get push when needed, he also only sees ~40% of the snaps. Then we get to the problem child Darnell Dockett. He makes splash plays, he will make plays behind the LOS, he will blow up the odd screen, he will get a sack or two and get pressure on the QB, he puts together a very good highlight tape, but the lack of discipline on run fits has to drive every defensive coach this team has had insane. He runs himself out of plays, he gets upfield when he should be playing a gap, he roams out of his gap far too often. He is also now at the stage of his career where the bad plays are outweighing the good ones and it is hurting this defense.

In short - One superstar, One good young player who does not see the field enough because of the changes in the game and one aging vet who hurts the team more often than he helps them.

Onto Linebacker where this team, frankly, outside of Daryl Washington, and we know he plays at most 12 games this year. Sucks, or is unproven.

We drafted Kevin Minter, I love the kid, but outside of that? Sam Acho; cannot get pressure unless he goes 1 v 1 vs a back or is unblocked. Lacks backside contain on run fits. Goes backwards on plays run at that side of the LOS too often, liability in coverage. Jasper Brinkley. Downhill LB who will be good in run fits, but not much else. O'Brien Schofield - Needs to stay healthy. Can rush the passer and turn the corner when he is healthy, but also lacks discipline in the running game and lacks the power to set the edge. Reggie Walker is a ST'er. Lorenzo Alexander is a ST'er. Zach Nash is a 2nd year guy as an UDFA. We lost our best pass rushing LB (Groves). We drafted Okafor too, but I am not a huge fan of his either.

Seriously, this is a bottom third unit in the NFL with Daryl Washington starting. Take him away...

You all know how I feel about the secondary too so I am not going to rehash it here again.

I apologise if this is just a teeny bit negative, but I really don't see the top talent on our defense. Outside of Peterson/Campbell/Washington we have more liabilities than we do good complimentary players. More players who will hurt the team than help them with a big play or even just doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Defense is a game of schematics. Scheme rules on defense, and especially when you have a defensive team that lacks talent (Like we did even last season) you better have a good defensive scheme that helps make up for it.

I have serious doubts about what Todd Bowles can do as a defensive coordinator and playcaller.


So you agree with me that we need to bring in Dansby? As of right now, I would say we have studs in Calais, Washington, and Peterson. That is a stud on every level of the defense. I agree we need to try to find an outside linebacker. It is a need on this defense. From what I have read on these free agent pickups, we have improved our depth by a quite a bit. I have a hard time not believing that. Losing Rhodes absolutely stinks. He is still a free agent. Maybe we could throw a contract past him and see if he comes back. I highly doubt it, but it would absolutely be worth investigating.

I agree with the scheme outweighing the talent on defense. I will give Bowles the benifit here. However, if we are 20 or lower in defense by the end of this year, I will be calling for his head. I beleive we have enough talent on the defense to win. Plus, we invested in offensive line with high draft picks. This has me excited because I believe you said talent on offense outweighs scheme. We got better here. Maybe we will be a middle of the road defense, but our offense has to be a middle of the road offense simply by drafting Cooper and bringing in Carson. I am excited to see what Arians will do with this offense. We could very well have a game or two where our quarterback throws for over 300 yards. I am going to have to invest in some depends simply because I have no idea what I will do with myself when we score a touchdown on a pass play.

I am optimistic about our offense. I am pessimistic about our defense. Maybe our offense will be good enough to boost our defense a bit. It cannot be worse than last year. Last year was one of the most brutal offensive displays I have ever seen. Fewer plays for the defense could really benefit that unit. We have a lot of questions no doubt, but we also have some pieces on both sides of the ball to be successful.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really doesn't matter who was/will still be brought in to play on the defensive side of the ball. As Khodder stated, scheme & playcalling matter more than the individual talent. You cannot lose Horton, who was the equivalent of a world class chess player, and not take a step backwards. And no one is ever going to convince me that Bowles is even 75% the defensive mastermind that Horton is. Horton's D was the real reason the Cards won as many games as they did last season. Losing Horton has really hurt this team more than any stupid decision Washington may have made, for example. As much as I believe the offense will be better, I am hard pressed to believe this team could get 8 wins, especially in this division and I'll put that on Bowles shoulders.

Should there be any perceived improvement in overall defensive stats this coming season, it will be the result of what appears will be an improved offense. Their ability to convert more 3rd downs should help keep the D fresher and, in theory, more effective. The one thing that will blow that theory up (and I guarantee it will) is lack of discipline, which, again as Khodder pointed out, is a very real problem. Dockett, OBS, and Acho all hurt the effectiveness of Horton's D. Think about that. If they had played their roles as instructed, that D would have been even better! It is not logical to expect them to suddenly become dependable with an unproven defensive scheme when they couldn't maintain their responsibilities under Horton's already proven D.

Ultimately, I'd like to see Horton come back, but I know that will never happen. We'll have to move on and I don't believe Bowles is the long term solution. Frankly, after Horton set the bar so high, I don't know who I could see as a respectable replacement. The only up and coming defensive mind from the college ranks that I was excited about was Dan Quinn and the Seahawks already brought him back. Besides, he's a 4-3 guy and I prefer to see 4 LB's on the field.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few notes on the last few posts;

1 - I am still not sure on Dansby. Loved the guy we missed out on those years ago, but with history, cost and dip in play is it worth adding him now? I would not mind if we did, not going to push for it either.

2 - If we rank lowly on defense this year, I am not going after Bowles. Defenses take time to bed in, they take time to be fully implemented and really start working.

If BA and company think that Bowles is the right guy for the job, he deserves more than one year to prove them right or wrong.

3 - Brinkley/Okafor/Minter - Relying on two rookies, one of which has never played linebacker and a cheap, one dimensional downhill linebacker to "greatly improve" our LB corps just shows how poor this unit was last year.

1 - We have no idea if Brinkley is going to be any better than Stewart Bradley.

2 - Okafor is going to have to go through a big transition to play OLB here.

3 - I really like Minter. I think he is a tangible upgrade on Lenon the second he steps on the field. Still does not mean I think the LB corps is that good.

4 - DL and Depth - We had some effective and efficient depth last year too, both Eason and Holiday provided good snaps and veteran leadership on the defensive line; they were quality depth.

What we are relying on for depth this year is guys who have never played in a 3-4 defense. Rucker snd Shaughnessy, neither has played in a 3-4 defense before, we still don't know what role Shaughnessy will be used in (Was standing up at OLB in the first installation camps) I assume you mean Alexander when you say Armstrong; and he is a special teamer, I don't see a lot of defensive impact from him.

5 - Talent is better on D; I don't see how that can be said, if you look at additions and subtractions; the guys that left we clearly better players than those that were bought in.

Rhodes out - Bell In (Rhodes is far better)
Toler/Gay out - Cason/Powers In (I think Toler/Gay is far better, but could be a push)
Holiday/Eason out - Shaughnessy/Rucker in (I prefers the veteran guys with the experience and the proven on field play)
Groves out Alexander in (Groves is far better)

Even if overall the talent added is a smigden better, which would be its best point, we have lost the guy that made it all work over the past two years on a team that in all truth lacked real quality outside of the three star players.

6 - Discipline on D. The reason Dockett was so vocal in support of Bowles and the new scheme is because it suits him. It allows him to play undisciplined and puts a safety net in place via scheme. Essentially you have Dockett one gapping and a LB two gapping behind him to cover for any mistakes Darnell makes. Similar to how Gerald Hayes used to play behind Darnell.
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EdgeoftheNest


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tell you one thing, I would not like to be Todd Bowles this year. What Ray Horton did with our defense over the past two years was remarkable. If I remember correctly, Ray's defense didn't really to come into its own until about 8 weeks into the season. This was on a lockout year. I will use that as my measuring stick. If Bowles' defense does not show significant improvement between weeks 8-16. I will calmly tell my brothers on the phone that he needs to go. Ray left a template for Bowles to follow, but I thought Horton did an amazing job of mixing it up. As soon as teams felt they had a beat on the defense, Horton would throw something different out there. He was the best defensive coordinator I have ever seen coach for the Cardinals. I do not know if Bowles has a good track record for being able to adjust in games to keep offenses guessing. I need to do some research on Bowles and see what his strengths are as a coordinator. Initially, he does not come across as a disciplinarian and this scares me. If any defense in the NFL plays undisciplined football, they will be exposed.

As for the "I would not like to be Todd Bowles this year" comment, who am I kidding? He gets paid to coach my favorite sport.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Los is in the building according to MJ. Our picks will run about 6m so a 1 year deal around 3-4m would work for me.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a bit overkill imo but I wouldn't mind too much

The problem is there would be a logjam. D-Wash, Dansby, Minter, and Brinkley fight over two spots. Plus Alexander better prove his worth ($3 million) as an OLB because he's not breaking into that ILB rotation. I wouldn't mind a 1 year deal.
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EdgeoftheNest


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Washington is able to come back and play this year, could we bump Dansby outside when Schofield goes on the IR? He was good at getting to the qb. He might not be big enough.[/quote]
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EdgeoftheNest


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Washington is able to come back and play this year, could we bump Dansby outside when Schofield goes on the IR? He was good at getting to the qb. He might not be big enough.[/quote]
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shawn


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Schofield goes to the IR I think that is when Okafor is forced into a starting role, whether he is ready or not.
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love2theOLINE


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what this means for Washington, this year, and going forward. Kiem and the boys must have some inside info from Washington and Goddell.
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mtdowner


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Dansby Reply with quote

EdgeoftheNest wrote:
I have put some thought into this. In order for the Cards to succeed, we need to sign Dansby. We do not have a linebacker who can cover. Brinkley and Minter are thumpers. Maybe Walker? I do not know where our cap is, but Keim has got to make this happen. I do not want to see tight ends running around like Bo Jackson on Tecmo Bowl. Who is with me?


According to Mike Jurecki Karlos Dansby is meeting with the Cardinals today. But apparently he wants a multi-year deal...
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EdgeoftheNest


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Multiple years does not interest me at all. I want a one year deal. He is not an answer, but a stop-gap. It probably does not matter anyways because the way it sounds our defense will be playing with reckless abandonment. This means I will be screaming at my tv while watching opposing offenses score at will.

Dockett is an idiot. He did not like the only scheme that ever worked in Arizona. The new scheme sounds terrible. Signing Dansby would be a good move, but what's the point if our front is going to be busy hunting. Offensive lineman will be destroying our linebackers. Instead of letting the dogs hunt, why don't we let them find.
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't want Dansby period. He is not as good as he was when he left here and he wants a multiple year contract? Ya no, if he wants to sign a 1 year contract for a relatively small amount of money, I'm still not 100% in.
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shawn


Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, I still like Dansby. And his play has not fallen off as much as people seem to be suggesting. He didn't have a good year, but In 2011 he will still being listed as one of the top ILB's in the game.
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