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2013 Offseason Threadô [Vol. V]
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WhackyPlague


Joined: 25 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
WhackyPlague wrote:
Phire wrote:
Because of the way Jackson's contract is structured, it would seem both our starting WRs are in contract seasons.

So what does 2014 look like? What are the chances both are on the roster? What are the chances neither are?


I'd put it about 50% both are still here, 25% one of them is here, 25% both are gone.

A lot of it depends on how much Momah/Benn/Cooper show. If any one of them has a particularly good year, that definitely increases the chances of Jackson or Maclin leaving. If none of the backups show much, and both Jackson and Maclin have good seasons, I think they'll both be back.


At this point, today, I would be more inclined to sign Maclin and let DeSean go. Maclin has a more well rounded game. Jackson's game is based on pure speed. His hands are never going to get better then they at this point and he is only going to slow down a bit as he gets older.
All that being said..... I would love to see us upgrade from both players. At absolute best, they are both a number 2 receivers that have allergic reactions to the middle of the field.


Yeah, agreed. Maclin is much more well rounded. His routes are beautiful and he can make really difficult catches. Hopefully Kelly can push him and get him to play with more toughness.

Plus, I trust Maclin more off the field. Not that Jackson is a criminal or a bad person or anything, but all that late-night clubbing and drinking carries some risk. Maclin doesn't seem to be nearly as much into all of that (and if he is, he doesn't post it all over his Twitter like Jackson does).
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a serious concern about Jackson's future going forward. Aside from the 'tude problems, how does a little guy built on speed fare as he ages? Once he slows down, how effective will he be?

There are guys just as fast and just as talented, but even younger and perhaps faster as Jackson ages coming out in every draft, that can be acquired in almost any round.
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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
I think there is a serious concern about Jackson's future going forward. Aside from the 'tude problems, how does a little guy built on speed fare as he ages? Once he slows down, how effective will he be?

There are guys just as fast and just as talented, but even younger and perhaps faster as Jackson ages coming out in every draft, that can be acquired in almost any round.


The problem here is that your comments are several years too late. All of what you said was relevant after Jackson's first NFL season. But most people, including the Eagles franchise, chose to drink the Kool Aid and pretend that Jackson was totally special. I wanted to trade the guy rather than extend him. It's too late to have these concerns because the full investment has been made in him. People wanted to pretend that Desean would be a 3 big contract #1 receiver over his career, when he always was, and has proven to be a 2 at most big contract #2 receiver. His first big contract opportunity being ruined by falling out of the first round.

Now it's time to turn to Maclin, another guy that isn't worth an extension for all of the reasons you detailed here:
Phire wrote:


There are guys just as fast and just as talented, but even younger and perhaps faster as Jackson ages coming out in every draft, that can be acquired in almost any round.


So let's fire up the Jeremy Maclin isn't worth the investment bandwagon! Instead of beating the Desean Jackson dead horse. Desean already has his money...
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Phire wrote:
I think there is a serious concern about Jackson's future going forward. Aside from the 'tude problems, how does a little guy built on speed fare as he ages? Once he slows down, how effective will he be?

There are guys just as fast and just as talented, but even younger and perhaps faster as Jackson ages coming out in every draft, that can be acquired in almost any round.


The problem here is that your comments are several years too late. All of what you said was relevant after Jackson's first NFL season. But most people, including the Eagles franchise, chose to drink the Kool Aid and pretend that Jackson was totally special. I wanted to trade the guy rather than extend him. It's too late to have these concerns because the full investment has been made in him. People wanted to pretend that Desean would be a 3 big contract #1 receiver over his career, when he always was, and has proven to be a 2 at most big contract #2 receiver. His first big contract opportunity being ruined by falling out of the first round.

Now it's time to turn to Maclin, another guy that isn't worth an extension for all of the reasons you detailed here:
Phire wrote:


There are guys just as fast and just as talented, but even younger and perhaps faster as Jackson ages coming out in every draft, that can be acquired in almost any round.


So let's fire up the Jeremy Maclin isn't worth the investment bandwagon! Instead of beating the Desean Jackson dead horse. Desean already has his money...


I don't think Jackson has already started to decline. The perfect time to trade him wasn't a few years ago when he was a youngster who still had room to grow. I'd say the window to get something in exchange for him would be between now and 2 years from now. And his contract is very, very front office friendly.

Some clown team will trade for him if we shopped him.
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:


I don't think Jackson has already started to decline. The perfect time to trade him wasn't a few years ago when he was a youngster who still had room to grow. I'd say the window to get something in exchange for him would be between now and 2 years from now. And his contract is very, very front office friendly.

Some clown team will trade for him if we shopped him.


That's the Kool Aid. Potential to do what? Potential to be what? He has regressed after getting concussed. He has regressed after being more concerned about his health and extension than making the tough play on the field. This is all old. Jeremy Maclin is the next Desean, however he goes about it with less criticism. He is another soft scared receiver that is in line to get paid in a fashion that denotes that he isn't easily replaced when in reality he would be...
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Phire wrote:


I don't think Jackson has already started to decline. The perfect time to trade him wasn't a few years ago when he was a youngster who still had room to grow. I'd say the window to get something in exchange for him would be between now and 2 years from now. And his contract is very, very front office friendly.

Some clown team will trade for him if we shopped him.


That's the Kool Aid. Potential to do what? Potential to be what? He has regressed after getting concussed. He has regressed after being more concerned about his health and extension than making the tough play on the field. This is all old. Jeremy Maclin is the next Desean, however he goes about it with less criticism. He is another soft scared receiver that is in line to get paid in a fashion that denotes that he isn't easily replaced when in reality he would be...

Dude we drafted him in 2008 and had no receiver depth. Move him and have what, your buddy Jason Avant as a starter? Come on now, there is a proper time and place to make moves. Now that we've finally got a coach who will probably add adequate talent at WR, it makes Jackson more expendable.

We weren't trading Jackson on a cheap rookie deal with nobody on the roster to replace him. Who could he become? Who knows, at the time you take your chances and give him the chance to develop. Maybe he would toughen up. Maybe he would mature. Neither has happened but that doesn't mean his value is any less today than it was when he had his concussion.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'm not going to keep replying to whatever response you'll offer. Let's keep in mind Jackson has outperformed everyone from his draft class.
Quote:
Of the 35 wide receivers selected, Jackson owns the most receptions, most yards and most total touchdowns in the class. In fact, the only players that sniff Jackson's productivity, are Green Bay's Jordy Nelson, Buffalo's Stevie Johnson and Washington's Pierre Garcon. Even with those three players, the California alum still has 1,500 more receiving yards than Nelson, nine more touchdowns than Johnson and 42 more receptions than Garcon.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/SBNation_20130529_Desean_Jackson_has_outperformed_the_entire_2008_WR_draft_class.html#IX1F5MxWtcZp6LFR.99
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theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.

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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
And I'm not going to keep replying to whatever response you'll offer. Let's keep in mind Jackson has outperformed everyone from his draft class.
Quote:
Of the 35 wide receivers selected, Jackson owns the most receptions, most yards and most total touchdowns in the class. In fact, the only players that sniff Jackson's productivity, are Green Bay's Jordy Nelson, Buffalo's Stevie Johnson and Washington's Pierre Garcon. Even with those three players, the California alum still has 1,500 more receiving yards than Nelson, nine more touchdowns than Johnson and 42 more receptions than Garcon.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/SBNation_20130529_Desean_Jackson_has_outperformed_the_entire_2008_WR_draft_class.html#IX1F5MxWtcZp6LFR.99


But if that draft were done over again, knowing everything that we now know about all of them as human beings, there are several receivers from that year that would be selected before Desean.
Stevie Johnson, Jordy Nelson, Pierre Garcon.

This is a team game, Desean has played the majority of his career with Pro Bowl level quarterbacking. Desean isn't just to be compared to his draft class but to the rest of the league.
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WhackyPlague


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
So let's fire up the Jeremy Maclin isn't worth the investment bandwagon! Instead of beating the Desean Jackson dead horse. Desean already has his money...


Depends on how much he's asking for. If we can sign him to something team-friendly, then I don't mind an extension at all. He's not great, but we also don't have anyone better at the moment. Assuming Jackson and Maclin both have career-average years: Re-sign Maclin, trade Jackson, and draft a WR fairly early.
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stevec0008


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind the potential of resigning Maclin either, but I would not want his deal to be close to Jacksons, which is most likely what he is looking for.

I also don't mind the idea of unloading Jackson if we can replace him in the draft with less of a headcase, but (obviously) can not wait to see what Chip has up his sleeve. We all do think Chip is going to run an up tempo, run heavy-ish offence, but if Jackson helps the offense move and click, we all may have a different outlook on this, around this time next year.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Phire wrote:
And I'm not going to keep replying to whatever response you'll offer. Let's keep in mind Jackson has outperformed everyone from his draft class.
Quote:
Of the 35 wide receivers selected, Jackson owns the most receptions, most yards and most total touchdowns in the class. In fact, the only players that sniff Jackson's productivity, are Green Bay's Jordy Nelson, Buffalo's Stevie Johnson and Washington's Pierre Garcon. Even with those three players, the California alum still has 1,500 more receiving yards than Nelson, nine more touchdowns than Johnson and 42 more receptions than Garcon.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/SBNation_20130529_Desean_Jackson_has_outperformed_the_entire_2008_WR_draft_class.html#IX1F5MxWtcZp6LFR.99


But if that draft were done over again, knowing everything that we now know about all of them as human beings, there are several receivers from that year that would be selected before Desean.
Stevie Johnson, Jordy Nelson, Pierre Garcon.

This is a team game, Desean has played the majority of his career with Pro Bowl level quarterbacking. Desean isn't just to be compared to his draft class but to the rest of the league.


I truly love this. With the benefit of hindsight..............blah, blah, blah.
Jackson wasn't a bad pick considering the state of our WRing core at the time. He was an upgrade and well worth the pick. The problem is, although he was fine then, an upgrade is needed going forward.
Not you, nor anyone else, could have forecasted Jackson's inability to go over the middle or his inability to become a polished route runner.
He was fine then and did as well as he could. That doesn't mean it was a bad pick.
Clearly an upgrade is needed at this point but not because DeSean was a bad pick, but because the needs of our team have changed.
Jackson can still be a very successful WR in the right system. I just don't think he can succeed in our system.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7421/matt-barkley
Quote:
Fourth-round pick Matt Barkley was reportedly "fairly impressive" at OTAs and "could loom as a key piece" of the Eagles' long-term plans.
Quote:
Despite his draft-day slide, "some evaluators" reportedly still believe Barkley could develop into the top quarterback from the '13 class. The National Football Post's Len Pasquarelli concedes Barkley is unlikely to figure into the Michael Vick-Nick Foles training camp battle, but it's reasonable to think Barkley could see late-year playing time if the Eagles' season goes south.

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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barkley will start a game this season.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Philly wrote:
Barkley will start a game this season.
And my jorts will be soiled, no doubt about it.
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Broadway Joe


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles_808 wrote:
Dr. Philly wrote:
Barkley will start a game this season.
And my jorts will be soiled, no doubt about it.


I already ruined a pair when we made our 4th round selection.
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