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A thread full of semi-realistic optimism
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9787
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:

They mentioned at the draft that he intentionally lost some weight in an effort to improve his 40 time. It didn't work.


Le'Veon Bell - 230 lbs, 4.56

2012 Top 10 RBs (over 215 lbs):

Adrian Peterson - 217 lbs, 4.40
Alfred Morris - 219 lbs, 4.63
Marshawn Lynch - 215 lbs, 4.46
Arian Foster - 226 lbs, 4.69
Stevan Ridley - 225 lbs, 4.65
BFGE - 219 lbs, 4.60
Matt Forte - 217 lbs, 4.44
Shonn Greene - 227 lbs, 4.62
Steven Jackson - 231 lbs, 4.55 (Pro Day)
Trent Richarson - 228 lbs, 4.48 (Pro Day)


So I went by the top 10 RBs over 215 lbs in rushing yardage last year. Bell's speed is not going to be a problem.

Chieferific wrote:
If I remember correctly, the vert, 3 cone and shuttle are key components in the KEI (which measures explosiveness. Though their traits are awfully similliar, the differences between the 40 and 3 cone may have a significant impact on measured explosiveness (FWTW)


nope. KEI = bench + broad jump + vert

Forte - 23 + 9.9 + 33 = 65.9
Bell - 24 + 9.9 + 31.5 = 65.4
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3160
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Chieferific wrote:

They mentioned at the draft that he intentionally lost some weight in an effort to improve his 40 time. It didn't work.


Le'Veon Bell - 230 lbs, 4.56

2012 Top 10 RBs (over 215 lbs):

Adrian Peterson - 217 lbs, 4.40
Alfred Morris - 219 lbs, 4.63
Marshawn Lynch - 215 lbs, 4.46
Arian Foster - 226 lbs, 4.69
Stevan Ridley - 225 lbs, 4.65
BFGE - 219 lbs, 4.60
Matt Forte - 217 lbs, 4.44
Shonn Greene - 227 lbs, 4.62
Steven Jackson - 231 lbs, 4.55 (Pro Day)
Trent Richarson - 228 lbs, 4.48 (Pro Day)


So I went by the top 10 RBs over 215 lbs in rushing yardage last year. Bell's speed is not going to be a problem.

Chieferific wrote:
If I remember correctly, the vert, 3 cone and shuttle are key components in the KEI (which measures explosiveness. Though their traits are awfully similliar, the differences between the 40 and 3 cone may have a significant impact on measured explosiveness (FWTW)


nope. KEI = bench + broad jump + vert

Forte - 23 + 9.9 + 33 = 65.9
Bell - 24 + 9.9 + 31.5 = 65.4

I wasn't trying to insinuate any concern about the 40 time. It was a response to a poster suggesting he lose weight to improve his time. Of course I wouldn't mind him breaking 4.5, but I understand it's not the end all be all. I'm suprised bench press is included in the KEI for RB. Not sure how that would translate. The 3 cone would seem to measure a RBs ability to cut. The broad jump portion makes sense. However, the simillarities between him and Forte in the KEI are comforting.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2224
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMashMouthMike wrote:
good posts and great offseason topic. Out of curiosity, does anyone else see some flashes of Arian Foster in Bell's running style? Might just be hopeful dreams for him combined with a vision of a competent zone blocking oline.


Exactly what I thought, but never posted it. Now l;ets see if we have the same outcome, or maybe even more productive? I doubt it, but lets see.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2224
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WorldBFree wrote:
I don't get the optimism at all (at least for next season). This team lost its best running back, best LT, best NT, best pass rusher, fastest WR, and their 2nd best corner. How can a team be better after that?

I don't think the Steelers are close to being a playoff team. I think this roster is as weak as any in recent memory.


Your observation can be interpreted as below:
LT - starks was good at pass pro, mediocre at run blocking. Adams has the ability to surpass starks, but will he (this year)?
NT - this is a loss, but running games aren't what they used to be. I still think the team is going to struggle without hampton, I agree with you, but not a severe as it would have been a long time ago.
Harrison - This is the worst, but maybe woodley will rebound to make up a difference and the depth Jones adds means there should be no drop off at all unless 2 starters are out at the same time.
Wallace - they replaced his speed and also got a player that can catch. wallace sucked last year.
Lewis was a loss, but Allen will be as good according to many. Too bad they never kept Lewis, what a trio of CB's to shut down the pass.
Miller is a loss that needs to be accounted for.

Optimism
New OL coach
DD healthy (knee last year)
Adams healthy (last year had ankle)
Real RB and OL blocking
Depth at OLB

I think coaching is going to be a big part of the success/failure. They can't afford to sit players that should start and that is for LeBeaus DL and CB's. I can't see how 22 should make the team, nor can I see how Heyward sits the bench. 90 playing NT in this scheme makes no sense either . If (when?) Woodley /Worilds get injured, JOnes better start but maybe Carter has made strides. If he has then there is nice depth at OLB.
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2894
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Colbert is on record saying Bell will play right around 240.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9787
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Chieferific wrote:

They mentioned at the draft that he intentionally lost some weight in an effort to improve his 40 time. It didn't work.


Le'Veon Bell - 230 lbs, 4.56

2012 Top 10 RBs (over 215 lbs):

Adrian Peterson - 217 lbs, 4.40
Alfred Morris - 219 lbs, 4.63
Marshawn Lynch - 215 lbs, 4.46
Arian Foster - 226 lbs, 4.69
Stevan Ridley - 225 lbs, 4.65
BFGE - 219 lbs, 4.60
Matt Forte - 217 lbs, 4.44
Shonn Greene - 227 lbs, 4.62
Steven Jackson - 231 lbs, 4.55 (Pro Day)
Trent Richarson - 228 lbs, 4.48 (Pro Day)


So I went by the top 10 RBs over 215 lbs in rushing yardage last year. Bell's speed is not going to be a problem.

Chieferific wrote:
If I remember correctly, the vert, 3 cone and shuttle are key components in the KEI (which measures explosiveness. Though their traits are awfully similliar, the differences between the 40 and 3 cone may have a significant impact on measured explosiveness (FWTW)


nope. KEI = bench + broad jump + vert

Forte - 23 + 9.9 + 33 = 65.9
Bell - 24 + 9.9 + 31.5 = 65.4

I wasn't trying to insinuate any concern about the 40 time. It was a response to a poster suggesting he lose weight to improve his time. Of course I wouldn't mind him breaking 4.5, but I understand it's not the end all be all. I'm suprised bench press is included in the KEI for RB. Not sure how that would translate. The 3 cone would seem to measure a RBs ability to cut. The broad jump portion makes sense. However, the simillarities between him and Forte in the KEI are comforting.


the similarities between Forte and Bell are all over the place, including their combine measurables, running styles, pass pro and receiving ability
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: A thread full of semi-realistic optimism Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
So lately it's been a bit of an oddity with me, this strange feeling of optimism. I can honestly say I'm more optimistic after this year's draft than any since 2004. I have a few ideas as to why this is true:

1) Offensive line - I am quite confident the offensive line will come together this season and avoid injury (somewhat). During the healthy stretch last season, we managed to put up several extremely strong performances in the run game with low-talent/low-heart players like Isaac Redman/Jonathan Dwyer
Nice to see you come around with some optimism Kethnabb! Cool I like the potential of the OL, although, I think you're being a bit rough on Redman and Dwyer Confused

Quote:
2) Coinciding with #1, I'm really happy about the LeVeon Bell pick. He is an ideal match for the system, moreso than Eddie Lacey simply because his hands and pass pro are already NFL-ready. I like Lacey a bit more as a bullish runner between the tackles, but Bell has good feet and shiftiness and a bit more speed. Knowing that Lacey had a health red flag is enough to make me perfectly happy with Bell
I agree here also, he's a throw back steelers RB also. Tough with better speed than you think

Quote:
3) Our WR corps this year and moving forward is possibly becoming a strength again. Sanders will be playing for a contract and I really like Wheaton who is, again, a fairly pro-ready WR as far as route running and understanding route concepts. Breaston might be a solid addition to the mix as well
definitely, Wheaton was one of my favorite WR prospects in the draft because he's such a good route runner.

I hope they don't sign Breaston, he's done nothing w/o Kurt Warner throwing him the ball.

Quote:
4) Another year under Haley's offense for Ben and the entire offensive line should do wonders for their execution of the playbook, as should a reduction in Wallace-whining and missing the Brucey.

Yeah, things should be smoother with Ben being more comfortable.

Quote:
5) The addition of Shamarko Thomas and Terry Hawthorne adds a TON of breakneck speed to our secondary, something we've been somewhat lacking in. This will be the first off-season that Carnell Lake gets to work his magic on Curtis Brown. If he can manage to stay healthy, we will be able to transition into a changing of the guard in the secondary, with Cortez Allen, Hawthorne, and Brown at the 3x CB slots, and Shamarko/Golden at SS/FS.
I agree. Shamarko is fast if he can keep his feet...

http://msn.foxsports.com/lacesout/the-steelers-drafted-shamarko-thomas-architect-of-the-greatest-40-yard-dash/

Quote:
6) The removal of suspected locker room cancer Mike Wallace and his bestest boyhood chum Keenan Lewis, plus the addition of 4x team captains (Vince Williams, Shark, DawgBones, and Wheaton) has got to provide a boost to the locker room
maybe... yet to be determined.

Quote:
7) Vince Williams - Many of you know (Especially in FFMD) that I'm a huge Vince Williams fan. we may have found our Larry Foote replacement, a signal caller and defensive captain for the #2 defense in the nation last year behind only Alabama. Obviously won't happen this year, but I think he can be a real contributor as a future defensive captain
I like the pick also, I think he'll be a steal

Quote:
8 ) Woodley and Worilds being well-conditioned. Call me crazy, but I believe the first-round addition of Jarvis Jones should have put both of them on alert. 2 OLB slots, 3 OLBs. We don't rotate much. At the very least, Worilds has to know his position on the team is in jeopardy. If a 1st round draft pick at YOUR POSITION isn't enough to wake you up and bring out your best, nothing is.
Yep, Jones' selection should motivate Woodley and Worilds to be in better shape and work harder. Great point.


Quote:
Now certainly there is much to worry about. Will Ben truly 'buy in' on the offense? Will Woodley actually hit camp at OLB weight instead of DT/5-tech weight? Will Troy remain healthy long enough for Shark to get his feet under him and get up to speed with the NFL game? Will Jarvis Jones be allowed to move around to take advantage of mismatches, or will he be stuck in the same static ROLB position that Deebo was his entire career here? Will Cam Heyward see the field more than 10-15 snaps per game, on average? Will the NT position be solidified or will it crumble?

Dunno the answers, but I"m looking forward to finding out
i'm looking forward to it also. I think Ben will have a good year. I think Woodley and Worilds will be motivated by Jones' selection and have good, healthy consistent years. Cam should definitely see twice the # of snaps next year and I am really looking forward to the group of young NTs playing more and on passing situations putting Hood at NT and bringing Cam in and I think he will be rotated in more for old man Keisel.
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