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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelers will always be a problem with Big Ben who I highly respect as a player. I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


While I think he's good, I can not put him in the top 5. Not over either Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees. Top 10, yeah, top 8, probably but not top 5.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Steelers will always be a problem with Big Ben who I highly respect as a player. I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


Yes, he's a rare QB. But he's not immune to losing.
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


While I think he's good, I can not put him in the top 5. Not over either Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees. Top 10, yeah, top 8, probably but not top 5.


Agreed. Not Top 5 but he'll always give them a chance at the playoffs.

On a side note, that avatar is disgusting. I'm so sorry that you've chosen that team.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NewWorldOrder wrote:

No one can deny the Steelers' history of success.
I look at this objectively. Here are my questions regarding the black and gold:

1.) Can Big Ben stay healthy? Depends firmly on the Offensive Lines health.
1b.) Is Ben still capable of performing at a high level? He's taken a lot of hits over the years. Yes, as long as the Offensive Line can stay healthy.
2.) Will Jones be able to contribute at an above average level? I believe so, but we'll soon find out.
3.) Worilds...is this his coming out year? Who knows. There are at least a few of us that are going to say no. I think he had decent stats as a backup last year, but as a starter, who knows what he'll do.
4.) How will your secondary play this year? I expect our secondary to be improved. Especially with Shamarko Thomas now, he's no Polamalu but at least he's an upgrade over the backup if Polamalu goes down.
5.) How well will our O line protect Big Ben? Depends on their health, I have a feeling they'll be alright this year.
6.) Can Bell be an effective starter as a rookie? I believe so, I don't think there's going to be much competition for the job though, he'll get it easily.

Obviously, the season has to play itself out. IMO, there are more questions surrounding the steelers this offseason than in prior ones. I think that's why people are questioning whether or not they will be a playoff team this year. I won't be surprised if they make the playoffs, but I won't be surprised if they don't make the playoffs. I think every team has had a good offseason in our division. There will be a lot of close games in the AFC North. How they play out will be fun to watch.


I would agree that we have more questions this offseason than previous ones but I think we've also done some things to address those questions the whole "we've done nothing to get younger" thing isn't true, See Shamarko Thomas, Terry Hawthorne, Vince Williams, & Jarvis Jones. We still will need to address the FS position next season, but Clark is pretty reliable at the position.

The biggest two questions are, Will Gilbert be effective enough in the LT position? & Will the offensive line remain healthy? If both of those are a yes, I think we'll be fine.

Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


While I think he's good, I can not put him in the top 5. Not over either Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees. Top 10, yeah, top 8, probably but not top 5.


Ben easily makes it in over Eli imo, having said that, Ben is no worse than #6 on the list, I certainly wouldn't put any divisional QB's over him. Ben is a guy who's known success since his rookie season, only acquiring 1 loss (which was in the playoffs, the regular season loss belonged to Tommy Maddox). Eli struggled out of the gate, it took him quite a while to get into the leadership role and respond well to his critics. Ben won 2 SB's rather quickly. Overall skill wise, I also think Ben is better. Eli has caught up in regards to SB Rings and he doesn't have the SB loss that Ben does, but the big difference is, Ben has helped his team go to 3 SBs.
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bungleodeon


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


While I think he's good, I can not put him in the top 5. Not over either Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees. Top 10, yeah, top 8, probably but not top 5.
I still think he's better than Eli.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bungleodeon wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


While I think he's good, I can not put him in the top 5. Not over either Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees. Top 10, yeah, top 8, probably but not top 5.
I still think he's better than Eli.


He's definitely better than Eli.


While Pitt fans think we are overrating our OLB's, I think they are overrating their Oline. Healthy or not, they aren't a great group.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:

Ben easily makes it in over Eli imo, having said that, Ben is no worse than #6 on the list, I certainly wouldn't put any divisional QB's over him. Ben is a guy who's known success since his rookie season, only acquiring 1 loss (which was in the playoffs, the regular season loss belonged to Tommy Maddox). Eli struggled out of the gate, it took him quite a while to get into the leadership role and respond well to his critics. Ben won 2 SB's rather quickly. Overall skill wise, I also think Ben is better. Eli has caught up in regards to SB Rings and he doesn't have the SB loss that Ben does, but the big difference is, Ben has helped his team go to 3 SBs.


You are describing primarily a review of his career. Careerwise, yes I agree with your assessment. But if I had to go into next season with a QB, I'm taking Eli over Ben. Its a slim margin no doubt and I don't begrudge an alternative opinion on the issue (especially given Eli's interceptions) but I'm generally going to take the guy who gives me 16 games every season over the one who struggles to stay healthy due to his play style.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
wwhickok wrote:

Ben easily makes it in over Eli imo, having said that, Ben is no worse than #6 on the list, I certainly wouldn't put any divisional QB's over him. Ben is a guy who's known success since his rookie season, only acquiring 1 loss (which was in the playoffs, the regular season loss belonged to Tommy Maddox). Eli struggled out of the gate, it took him quite a while to get into the leadership role and respond well to his critics. Ben won 2 SB's rather quickly. Overall skill wise, I also think Ben is better. Eli has caught up in regards to SB Rings and he doesn't have the SB loss that Ben does, but the big difference is, Ben has helped his team go to 3 SBs.


You are describing primarily a review of his career. Careerwise, yes I agree with your assessment. But if I had to go into next season with a QB, I'm taking Eli over Ben. Its a slim margin no doubt and I don't begrudge an alternative opinion on the issue (especially given Eli's interceptions) but I'm generally going to take the guy who gives me 16 games every season over the one who struggles to stay healthy due to his play style.


I think if you're looking at it as "who's top 5 heading into next season" I see the validity in your point. It's not just Ben's style of play though it's also that offensive line and last season we had 'upgrades' and everyone of them got hurt...like..wtf.. we just can't get any luck, lol.
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MalcolmBrown


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
wwhickok wrote:

Ben easily makes it in over Eli imo, having said that, Ben is no worse than #6 on the list, I certainly wouldn't put any divisional QB's over him. Ben is a guy who's known success since his rookie season, only acquiring 1 loss (which was in the playoffs, the regular season loss belonged to Tommy Maddox). Eli struggled out of the gate, it took him quite a while to get into the leadership role and respond well to his critics. Ben won 2 SB's rather quickly. Overall skill wise, I also think Ben is better. Eli has caught up in regards to SB Rings and he doesn't have the SB loss that Ben does, but the big difference is, Ben has helped his team go to 3 SBs.


You are describing primarily a review of his career. Careerwise, yes I agree with your assessment. But if I had to go into next season with a QB, I'm taking Eli over Ben. Its a slim margin no doubt and I don't begrudge an alternative opinion on the issue (especially given Eli's interceptions) but I'm generally going to take the guy who gives me 16 games every season over the one who struggles to stay healthy due to his play style.


I think if you're looking at it as "who's top 5 heading into next season" I see the validity in your point. It's not just Ben's style of play though it's also that offensive line and last season we had 'upgrades' and everyone of them got hurt...like..wtf.. we just can't get any luck, lol.


You make me want to vomit.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalcolmBrown wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
wwhickok wrote:

Ben easily makes it in over Eli imo, having said that, Ben is no worse than #6 on the list, I certainly wouldn't put any divisional QB's over him. Ben is a guy who's known success since his rookie season, only acquiring 1 loss (which was in the playoffs, the regular season loss belonged to Tommy Maddox). Eli struggled out of the gate, it took him quite a while to get into the leadership role and respond well to his critics. Ben won 2 SB's rather quickly. Overall skill wise, I also think Ben is better. Eli has caught up in regards to SB Rings and he doesn't have the SB loss that Ben does, but the big difference is, Ben has helped his team go to 3 SBs.


You are describing primarily a review of his career. Careerwise, yes I agree with your assessment. But if I had to go into next season with a QB, I'm taking Eli over Ben. Its a slim margin no doubt and I don't begrudge an alternative opinion on the issue (especially given Eli's interceptions) but I'm generally going to take the guy who gives me 16 games every season over the one who struggles to stay healthy due to his play style.


I think if you're looking at it as "who's top 5 heading into next season" I see the validity in your point. It's not just Ben's style of play though it's also that offensive line and last season we had 'upgrades' and everyone of them got hurt...like..wtf.. we just can't get any luck, lol.


You make me want to vomit.


QFMFT
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!! A steelers fan coming into our forum saying they can't get any luck .... I have now seen everything.
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NewWorldOrder


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
NewWorldOrder wrote:

No one can deny the Steelers' history of success.
I look at this objectively. Here are my questions regarding the black and gold:

1.) Can Big Ben stay healthy? Depends firmly on the Offensive Lines health.
1b.) Is Ben still capable of performing at a high level? He's taken a lot of hits over the years. Yes, as long as the Offensive Line can stay healthy.
2.) Will Jones be able to contribute at an above average level? I believe so, but we'll soon find out.
3.) Worilds...is this his coming out year? Who knows. There are at least a few of us that are going to say no. I think he had decent stats as a backup last year, but as a starter, who knows what he'll do.
4.) How will your secondary play this year? I expect our secondary to be improved. Especially with Shamarko Thomas now, he's no Polamalu but at least he's an upgrade over the backup if Polamalu goes down.
5.) How well will our O line protect Big Ben? Depends on their health, I have a feeling they'll be alright this year.
6.) Can Bell be an effective starter as a rookie? I believe so, I don't think there's going to be much competition for the job though, he'll get it easily.

Obviously, the season has to play itself out. IMO, there are more questions surrounding the steelers this offseason than in prior ones. I think that's why people are questioning whether or not they will be a playoff team this year. I won't be surprised if they make the playoffs, but I won't be surprised if they don't make the playoffs. I think every team has had a good offseason in our division. There will be a lot of close games in the AFC North. How they play out will be fun to watch.


I would agree that we have more questions this offseason than previous ones but I think we've also done some things to address those questions the whole "we've done nothing to get younger" thing isn't true, See Shamarko Thomas, Terry Hawthorne, Vince Williams, & Jarvis Jones. We still will need to address the FS position next season, but Clark is pretty reliable at the position.

The biggest two questions are, Will Gilbert be effective enough in the LT position? & Will the offensive line remain healthy? If both of those are a yes, I think we'll be fine.

Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I think he's an elite top 5 QB. I just question how long he's gonna last.


While I think he's good, I can not put him in the top 5. Not over either Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees. Top 10, yeah, top 8, probably but not top 5.


Ben easily makes it in over Eli imo, having said that, Ben is no worse than #6 on the list, I certainly wouldn't put any divisional QB's over him. Ben is a guy who's known success since his rookie season, only acquiring 1 loss (which was in the playoffs, the regular season loss belonged to Tommy Maddox). Eli struggled out of the gate, it took him quite a while to get into the leadership role and respond well to his critics. Ben won 2 SB's rather quickly. Overall skill wise, I also think Ben is better. Eli has caught up in regards to SB Rings and he doesn't have the SB loss that Ben does, but the big difference is, Ben has helped his team go to 3 SBs.


Heading into this season, that's a lot to ask for. Not saying it can't be done, just a lot to ask for everything listed to go right. You need a lot of "luck" for things to go right. Factoring in the age of Ben, his injury history, and the O line questions, it's a big IF for him playing 16 games.

On a side note, you're a fan of one of the best run organizations, with the most Super Bowl titles. Yet, you post in a Cleveland Browns forum about not getting luck? I'd respond, however, threads can only go 100 pages. I'd hate to be cut short.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalcolmBrown wrote:
You make me want to vomit.


nugpimpen wrote:

QFMFT


Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!! A steelers fan coming into our forum saying they can't get any luck .... I have now seen everything.


NewWorldOrder wrote:

Heading into this season, that's a lot to ask for. Not saying it can't be done, just a lot to ask for everything listed to go right. You need a lot of "luck" for things to go right. Factoring in the age of Ben, his injury history, and the O line questions, it's a big IF for him playing 16 games.

On a side note, you're a fan of one of the best run organizations, with the most Super Bowl titles. Yet, you post in a Cleveland Browns forum about not getting luck? I'd respond, however, threads can only go 100 pages. I'd hate to be cut short.


The ONLY thing my comment about luck was in reference to, was the injuries on the offensive line.
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Dawgpoun8017


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
MalcolmBrown wrote:
You make me want to vomit.


nugpimpen wrote:

QFMFT


Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!! A steelers fan coming into our forum saying they can't get any luck .... I have now seen everything.


NewWorldOrder wrote:

Heading into this season, that's a lot to ask for. Not saying it can't be done, just a lot to ask for everything listed to go right. You need a lot of "luck" for things to go right. Factoring in the age of Ben, his injury history, and the O line questions, it's a big IF for him playing 16 games.

On a side note, you're a fan of one of the best run organizations, with the most Super Bowl titles. Yet, you post in a Cleveland Browns forum about not getting luck? I'd respond, however, threads can only go 100 pages. I'd hate to be cut short.


The ONLY thing my comment about luck was in reference to, was the injuries on the offensive line.


Yeaaaaa....... You're still getting sympathy from us in that either
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