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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Entropy wrote:

Also, ...all of those guys you are comparing Worilds to actually did stuff before they became starters...they 'earned' it either in training camp and/or by performing well during games.


Before becoming full time starters for LeBeau;

Gildon: 1 GS, 16 tackles, 5 sacks in 2 years.

Harrison: 4 GS, 86 tackles, 4 sacks in 4 years.

Porter: 0 GS, 2 sacks 10 tackles in 1 season.

Worilds has 1 less sack than those guys did COMBINED when the 'earned' their jobs, but he's done nothing?




I think the reason they started Harrison over Worilds (even though we all knew he was about done) was that Harrison can play the run well and the pass adequately...and Worilds can't.

Porter played the pass well and the run adequately...and Worilds can't.

Gildon played the run well and the pass adequately...and Worilds can't.

He's too one dimensional...I've said it before, you haven't addressed it...you just keep talking about sacks, which is WHY he's so one dimensional...it's pretty much all you can say about him...and 10 sacks in 3 years and 42 games aint that good.

With the guys you are comparing him to, they showed that they deserved to be the starter by being aggressive and multi-dimensional, where Worilds would be the starter simply because there is no one else...big difference.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Entropy wrote:

Also, ...all of those guys you are comparing Worilds to actually did stuff before they became starters...they 'earned' it either in training camp and/or by performing well during games.


Before becoming full time starters for LeBeau;

Gildon: 1 GS, 16 tackles, 5 sacks in 2 years.

Harrison: 4 GS, 86 tackles, 4 sacks in 4 years.

Porter: 0 GS, 2 sacks 10 tackles in 1 season.

Worilds has 1 less sack than those guys did COMBINED when the 'earned' their jobs, but he's done nothing?




I think the reason they started Harrison over Worilds (even though we all knew he was about done) was that Harrison can play the run well and the pass adequately...and Worilds can't.

Porter played the pass well and the run adequately...and Worilds can't.

Gildon played the run well and the pass adequately...and Worilds can't.

He's too one dimensional...I've said it before, you haven't addressed it...you just keep talking about sacks, which is WHY he's so one dimensional...it's pretty much all you can say about him...and 10 sacks in 3 years and 42 games aint that good.

With the guys you are comparing him to, they showed that they deserved to be the starter by being aggressive and multi-dimensional, where Worilds would be the starter simply because there is no one else...big difference.


Worilds can't play the run, but those guys proved they could in their 5 combined starts in their 7 combines seasons prior to starting. I hope you're getting paid for these wonderful stories you're telling.

Who said 10 sacks in 3 years was good? I know damned well I didn't. I said it was nearly as good as those 3 guys listed had in 7 seasons and each of them turned out ok didn't they?

Finally, just so I'm clear, you think that the Steelers are simply handing Worilds a job because 'there's no one else' despite the fact they have developed Pro Bowlers at that position for 3 decades? Interesting.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
I sincerely don't understand the basis for the blind homerism by some on this board.



That's because you're using the 'blind homerism' card as an excuse for making an opposing argument.

Quote:


Let's be real for just a moment, shall we? The Browns have been probably the single worst franchise in the NFL the last 15 years. We've had consistently one of, if not THE worst defenses in the league during that stretch. Our front offices, all 6 (?) of them, have never once shown an ability to develop a player or position group.



And we don't RIGHT NOW have developing players at RB, RT, CB, S, WR, DT, DE, LB, QB, TE...WHAT?!?!?!

What are you even talking about?

See, there is 'blind homerism' and one end of the spectrum and there is 'blind hatred' and the other. You seem to think that everyone must be at one end or the other and there is nothing between the two points of view. You're wrong.


Quote:

The Steelers on the other hand have had 3 head coaches since 1969. Their DC is the best the league has ever seen (arguably). They have drafted and developed talent for their 3-4 defense successfully for almost 5 decades now. To say they have a 'track record' is an understatement.



"They" have a 5 decade track record? Noll was a great coach, but of his final 12 seasons with Steelers--he was better than 9-7 only once, he was under .500 in 4 of his last 7 seasons. He had a great stretch from '72 to '79...but careful with that '50 years' stuff. That is what a 'blind homer' Steelers fan would say.

Cowher was a great coach too, but he had his ups and downs (mostly because of inconsistent QBs), though he did have the benefit of playing the Browns from 1999 to 2006 to help pad his coaching record.

Lebeau? He was an awful DC with the Bengals. And his 3-4 isn't as much of a mystery as it was in years past.

So, if you really examine why the Steelers did well against the Browns, even when they didn't have one of their 2 championship teams over the past 33 years...it was because they had better players.

So yeah, let's look the quality of their players under Tomlin? See, the head coach plays a bigger part in drafting and developing players for the Steelers than you seem acknowledge.

Who on this team was selected or developed by Cowher?

That's right, mostly the good players over the past several years.

Who was selected or developed by Tomlin? Yup, a lot of ?????????????

Tomlin has been the head coach for the past 7 drafts, and honestly it's really hard to give him much credit for the 2007 draft when Cowher likely influenced a lot of those decisions.

So here...give me a list of players from those drafts since 2008 that will be playing for the Steelers next year (you don't really have to, of course...but I think you'll be surprised).

Quote:

Is Jason Worilds going to be a stud and Pro Bowler? I have no idea. That said, history is certainly on my side. If he should not work out, they will almost certainly have another guy on that roster who's ready to go. That's just how they do things, and they've done so since before most of us were born.



Yes, you have no idea...but what you actually did was assume he will be the next Gildon, Porter, or Harrison. And history doesn't help you as much as you think it does, since Tomlin became the coach.

I was born in 1963, by the way.

Quote:


I honestly hate the Steelers, and watching them kick our backside every year turns my stomach, but one must give respect where respect is due, and they've earned that decades ago.


Respect? an 8-8 team? A team with a QB that had a 97 QB rating, the number 1 defense in yardage...and still only won 8 games?

Something is wrong with that team that simple excuses won't fix.

Quote:

To even attempt to rank any part of our front 7 as better than theirs, at least right now, is nothing but pure homerism IMO.



Any part? We have more depth at OLB...agree or disagree?

We have more depth on the DL...agree or disagree?

This can create a pretty formidable rotation, right?

Woodley is a very good player, but his questions for next year are no bigger than the ones surrounding Kruger. And if you remember, I never I like Kruger more than Woodley, I simply said you were exaggerating with the 'anywhere near' garbage.

Now think about this...why would you take ANY front 7 in the AFCN over ours right now?
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:


Worilds can't play the run, but those guys proved they could in their 5 combined starts in their 7 combines seasons prior to starting. I hope you're getting paid for these wonderful stories you're telling.

Who said 10 sacks in 3 years was good? I know damned well I didn't. I said it was nearly as good as those 3 guys listed had in 7 seasons and each of them turned out ok didn't they?

Finally, just so I'm clear, you think that the Steelers are simply handing Worilds a job because 'there's no one else' despite the fact they have developed Pro Bowlers at that position for 3 decades? Interesting.


Oh, did you think it was MY opinion?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/03/jason-worilds-big-shoes-fill-contract-year/

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/8/29/3276351/steelers-roster-preseason-depth-chart-position-battle-outside-linebackers-chris-carter-jason-worilds

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jason-worilds?id=496887

http://www.steelcityblitz.com/2013/03/26/steelers-harrison-shouldnt-close-any-doors-just-yet/

Let me know if you want more info...
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:

Now think about this...why would you take ANY front 7 in the AFCN over ours right now?


This is pretty much my quitting point.

We have no Pro Bowlers, no All Pros, no proven difference makers.

Not one player on this team has ever had double digit sacks.

Our 2 most proven pass rushers have 30.5 career sacks in 6 combined years.

Our most 'proven' players, Bryant and Kruger did their work on different teams in different situations. No one knows what they will do in this scheme with this talent around them.

We are typically in the bottom 5 in the league against the run. Divisional opponents, specifically the Steelers, are among the best in the league.

As I said in my original post, at season end thing may be different if the ball bounces our way and things work out, but until then...

Why am I wasting my time? Take this to the NFL General forum and see what unbiased fans of other teams think of this nonsense. Some folks are simply too far into the forest to see the trees.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Entropy wrote:

Now think about this...why would you take ANY front 7 in the AFCN over ours right now?


This is pretty much my quitting point.

We have no Pro Bowlers, no All Pros, no proven difference makers.

Not one player on this team has ever had double digit sacks.

Our 2 most proven pass rushers have 30.5 career sacks in 6 combined years.

Our most 'proven' players, Bryant and Kruger did their work on different teams in different situations. No one knows what they will do in this scheme with this talent around them.

We are typically in the bottom 5 in the league against the run. Divisional opponents, specifically the Steelers, are among the best in the league.

As I said in my original post, at season end thing may be different if the ball bounces our way and things work out, but until then...

Why am I wasting my time? Take this to the NFL General forum and see what unbiased fans of other teams think of this nonsense. Some folks are simply too far into the forest to see the trees.


You quit rather than answer the question?

Which front 7 would you take? It's really easy...4 choices

Notice I didn't say 'starting front 7', so include all players on any team's roster that plays that teams front 7...

and yeah, go ahead and include those all-pros that play for the Steelers front 7 too..like uh.....

Oh...and you're wrong that we have no proven difference makers...but yeah, no one on Earth knows our team like those that post in general...

***Edit

I think you meant to say that Kruger and Sheard have 34.5 sacks in the past 2 seasons. Unless you want to talk about Heyward and Hood's sacks too? Bryant plays DE in the 3-4...DT in the 4-3.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Entropy wrote:

Now think about this...why would you take ANY front 7 in the AFCN over ours right now?


This is pretty much my quitting point.

We have no Pro Bowlers, no All Pros, no proven difference makers.

Not one player on this team has ever had double digit sacks.

Our 2 most proven pass rushers have 30.5 career sacks in 6 combined years.

Our most 'proven' players, Bryant and Kruger did their work on different teams in different situations. No one knows what they will do in this scheme with this talent around them.

We are typically in the bottom 5 in the league against the run. Divisional opponents, specifically the Steelers, are among the best in the league.

As I said in my original post, at season end thing may be different if the ball bounces our way and things work out, but until then...

Why am I wasting my time? Take this to the NFL General forum and see what unbiased fans of other teams think of this nonsense. Some folks are simply too far into the forest to see the trees.


You quit rather than answer the question?

Which front 7 would you take? It's really easy...4 choices

Notice I didn't say 'starting front 7', so include all players on any team's roster that plays that teams front 7...

and yeah, go ahead and include those all-pros that play for the Steelers front 7 too..like uh.....

Oh...and you're wrong that we have no proven difference makers...but yeah, no one on Earth knows our team like those that post in general...

***Edit

I think you meant to say that Kruger and Sheard have 34.5 sacks in the past 2 seasons. Unless you want to talk about Heyward and Hood's sacks too? Bryant plays DE in the 3-4...DT in the 4-3.


And didn't DQ and Rubin make probowls in the past?

They have been alternates, not sure.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:

And didn't DQ and Rubin make probowls in the past?

They have been alternates, not sure.


No and no.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:

And didn't DQ and Rubin make probowls in the past?

They have been alternates, not sure.


No and no.


Correct. I think nug was remembering the reports of probowl 'snubs' for players that appeared deserving.

Rubin has been a consistent top performing player in the AFC at DT (and the best on the Browns year-in and year-out) and DQ came back from back-to-back pec tears to get 276 tackles, 7 sacks, 3 INTs (1 for a TD), 3 FFs, 5 FRs, 10PDs, and 16 TFL...while not missing a start in the past 2 years.

DQ is also the guy people forget about when giving all that credit to Gocong for the goal-line stand against the Steelers. DQ blew up the lead blocker on every play, giving Gocong a chance to make the tackle in the first place.

Do I wish he was bigger and a little more athletic? Sure...but is he a difference maker? You better believe he is...so is Rubin.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Respect? an 8-8 team? A team with a QB that had a 97 QB rating, the number 1 defense in yardage...and still only won 8 games?

Something is wrong with that team that simple excuses won't fix.


I'm not going to get into a huge debate here, but this comment stuck out like a sore thumb.

First off, I dont care if you respect the Steelers or not, so that has nothing to do with what Im gonna say.

Secondly...that QB with the 97 passer rating was injured the second half of the year. He missed a few games and wasnt 100% for the remainder of the season.

And while our defense was first in yards, they also choked at the worst times and had hardly any splash plays and no consisent pass rush.

No...excuses wont fix them, but there were pretty obvious reasons for their struggles last year, and many are correctable.

Quote:
Tomlin has been the head coach for the past 7 drafts, and honestly it's really hard to give him much credit for the 2007 draft when Cowher likely influenced a lot of those decisions.


You have made some decent points in this thread...but this sure as hell isnt one of them.

Yes...a coach who was never great with personnel decisions and had no hand in the 2007 draft process influenced that draft. Cowher was pure motivator. He was decent with Xs and Os, but his decisions with personnel held us back a good bit.

If Cowher had his way...Big Ben wouldve never been a Steeler. We wouldve taken Shawn Andrews. Cowher's moronic idea to pass on talented QBs year after year is why he never got his ring, and when he was finally forced to take one by the Rooney's, low and behold...he gets it. Cowher thought he could win it all with mediocre QBs. Cowher was wrong.

It was Tomlin's decision to get rid of Porter and give Harrison a chance. It was Tomlin's decision to open up the offense and trust Ben, which Cowher never did. Im not going to sit here and say Tomlin is a better coach than Cowher, but you are seriously downplaying what he has brought to this team.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:

Respect? an 8-8 team? A team with a QB that had a 97 QB rating, the number 1 defense in yardage...and still only won 8 games?

Something is wrong with that team that simple excuses won't fix.



People like you make me laugh, but that's alright, keep overlooking the Steelers. Keep ignoring how dangerous they are. As far as whether you respect us or not, I could care less, we have 6 rings and 8 Super Bowl appearances, and have rarely missed the playoffs, in fact we're 8/13 in the last 13 years.

You said that Cowher influenced this and that. You know how many 1st round selections we've missed on in 13 years? Since COLBERT was our GM? Not very many at all. Cowher wanted Philip Rivers as our QB but he was out of reach. Had he been pulling the trigger on the decision, like 43 said, we would never have drafted Ben Roethlisberger.

As far as the comparison between Cowher and Tomlin, it's this simple.. There is no comparison, they're 100% unequivocally two competely different Coaches. This team has greatly improved since Tomlin has become the Head Coach, I will say that much.


Last year the Pittsburgh Steelers had arguably the most injuries in the NFL of any team in regards to their starters (Baltimore was up there too). We were 6-3 prior to Ben Roethlisberger getting injured, following that, we were WINNING a football game against the Ravens prior to our backup being injured and unwisley being left in the game, which could've catapulted us into the playoffs. We then had to rely on our 3rd string, dinosauric QB, who proved that his career had come to an end.

Woodley was out of shape and lazy last season, if he gets back in shape, it'll signifcantly improve our defense. Our defense as a whole wasn't as good as our 'statistical rating'. Our offense struggled because of a lack of a running game and our defense struggled as a result of a lack of pass rush. Both of those areas were addressed in the first two rounds of the draft. Yep, we lost Wallace and replaced him with someone who may not be as fast as him (But he's darn close) but is a better route runner and will catch more passes.

You say it's not a simple fix, that's fair, there are several variables. But the primary variable is health. If we stay healthy, imo, we're easily a playoff team.
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NewWorldOrder


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
Entropy wrote:

Respect? an 8-8 team? A team with a QB that had a 97 QB rating, the number 1 defense in yardage...and still only won 8 games?

Something is wrong with that team that simple excuses won't fix.



People like you make me laugh, but that's alright, keep overlooking the Steelers. Keep ignoring how dangerous they are. As far as whether you respect us or not, I could care less, we have 6 rings and 8 Super Bowl appearances, and have rarely missed the playoffs, in fact we're 8/13 in the last 13 years.

You said that Cowher influenced this and that. You know how many 1st round selections we've missed on in 13 years? Since COLBERT was our GM? Not very many at all. Cowher wanted Philip Rivers as our QB but he was out of reach. Had he been pulling the trigger on the decision, like 43 said, we would never have drafted Ben Roethlisberger.

As far as the comparison between Cowher and Tomlin, it's this simple.. There is no comparison, they're 100% unequivocally two competely different Coaches. This team has greatly improved since Tomlin has become the Head Coach, I will say that much.


Last year the Pittsburgh Steelers had arguably the most injuries in the NFL of any team in regards to their starters (Baltimore was up there too). We were 6-3 prior to Ben Roethlisberger getting injured, following that, we were WINNING a football game against the Ravens prior to our backup being injured and unwisley being left in the game, which could've catapulted us into the playoffs. We then had to rely on our 3rd string, dinosauric QB, who proved that his career had come to an end.

Woodley was out of shape and lazy last season, if he gets back in shape, it'll signifcantly improve our defense. Our defense as a whole wasn't as good as our 'statistical rating'. Our offense struggled because of a lack of a running game and our defense struggled as a result of a lack of pass rush. Both of those areas were addressed in the first two rounds of the draft. Yep, we lost Wallace and replaced him with someone who may not be as fast as him (But he's darn close) but is a better route runner and will catch more passes.

You say it's not a simple fix, that's fair, there are several variables. But the primary variable is health. If we stay healthy, imo, we're easily a playoff team.


No one can deny the Steelers' history of success.
I look at this objectively. Here are my questions regarding the black and gold:

1.) Can Big Ben stay healthy?
1b.) Is Ben still capable of performing at a high level? He's taken a lot of hits over the years.
2.) Will Jones be able to contribute at an above average level?
3.) Worilds...is this his coming out year?
4.) How will your secondary play this year?
5.) How well will our O line protect Big Ben?
6.) Can Bell be an effective starter as a rookie?

Obviously, the season has to play itself out. IMO, there are more questions surrounding the steelers this offseason than in prior ones. I think that's why people are questioning whether or not they will be a playoff team this year. I won't be surprised if they make the playoffs, but I won't be surprised if they don't make the playoffs. I think every team has had a good offseason in our division. There will be a lot of close games in the AFC North. How they play out will be fun to watch.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F that ish. We are the young thunder cats on this block, we are improving while still being one of the youngest teams in the NFL, I'm not afraid of anyone in our division none of them are invincible, steelers primary impact players are getting long in the tooth and they have not gotten anyone younger that makes me say oh my god don't put them in, their line still isn't very good, roethlesbergers body has taken so much punishment over the years on and off the field. Ravens lost a lot this offseason, and even though they had a good draft depending how you look at it ( I'm not overly impressed by Elam) Arthur brown is going to come in and have to start, and while he was a good prospect we have no clue how he will adjust to the pro game, people kill DQ for being undersized yet brown is about the same size if not smaller. They lost the heart and soul of that team for the past some 15 years, their general in ray Lewis you cannot replace him, he is arguably the best ILB to play the game, jameel McLain or rolando McClain will prolly have to start at the other ILB spot should I be scared of that cause sure as hell not. Reed is gone while replaced with a decent Michael huff, he isn't half of what Ed reed was. Elvis dumervill while a good pass rusher is terrible against the run. The margin is shrinking boys, our time is coming.
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NewWorldOrder


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
F that ish. We are the young thunder cats on this block, we are improving while still being one of the youngest teams in the NFL, I'm not afraid of anyone in our division none of them are invincible, steelers primary impact players are getting long in the tooth and they have not gotten anyone younger that makes me say oh my god don't put them in, their line still isn't very good, roethlesbergers body has taken so much punishment over the years on and off the field. Ravens lost a lot this offseason, and even though they had a good draft depending how you look at it ( I'm not overly impressed by Elam) Arthur brown is going to come in and have to start, and while he was a good prospect we have no clue how he will adjust to the pro game, people kill DQ for being undersized yet brown is about the same size if not smaller. They lost the heart and soul of that team for the past some 15 years, their general in ray Lewis you cannot replace him, he is arguably the best ILB to play the game, jameel McLain or rolando McClain will prolly have to start at the other ILB spot should I be scared of that cause sure as hell not. Reed is gone while replaced with a decent Michael huff, he isn't half of what Ed reed was. Elvis dumervill while a good pass rusher is terrible against the run. The margin is shrinking boys, our time is coming.


I agree. The gap has narrowed. I think the division games will be dogfights this year. I think the Browns will be more competitive in the division than they have ever been. I still think it will take until 2014 before we post a winning record in our division. Even though BAL and PIT have list a lot of players, both are winning franchises. The changing of the guard is never easy. There is something to be said for experience, which is why I think 2014 will be our year. Our young players are still developing. Even with the promise they've shown, it's still going to take another year.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Respect? an 8-8 team? A team with a QB that had a 97 QB rating, the number 1 defense in yardage...and still only won 8 games?

Something is wrong with that team that simple excuses won't fix.


I'm not going to get into a huge debate here, but this comment stuck out like a sore thumb.

First off, I dont care if you respect the Steelers or not, so that has nothing to do with what Im gonna say.

Secondly...that QB with the 97 passer rating was injured the second half of the year. He missed a few games and wasnt 100% for the remainder of the season.

And while our defense was first in yards, they also choked at the worst times and had hardly any splash plays and no consisent pass rush.

No...excuses wont fix them, but there were pretty obvious reasons for their struggles last year, and many are correctable.



I think all of the problems are correctable. Just get some better players.

Quote:


Quote:
Tomlin has been the head coach for the past 7 drafts, and honestly it's really hard to give him much credit for the 2007 draft when Cowher likely influenced a lot of those decisions.


You have made some decent points in this thread...but this sure as hell isnt one of them.



Sure it is. Cowher knew defensive players. It's simply naive to think that he didn't have scouting reports and an opinion on both Woodely and Timmons that he shared with Colbert.

How much that influenced their actual picks? I don't know...and frankly, neither do you.

Quote:


Yes...a coach who was never great with personnel decisions and


You mean his QB choices right? That's basically what I said.

Quote:
had no hand in the 2007 draft process influenced that draft.


if you say so...

Quote:

Cowher was pure motivator. He was decent with Xs and Os, but his decisions with personnel held us back a good bit.



Again, I think you are mostly referring to the QB position...and I agree

Quote:


If Cowher had his way...Big Ben wouldve never been a Steeler. We wouldve taken Shawn Andrews. Cowher's moronic idea to pass on talented QBs year after year is why he never got his ring, and when he was finally forced to take one by the Rooney's, low and behold...he gets it. Cowher thought he could win it all with mediocre QBs. Cowher was wrong.



I believe that...

Quote:


It was Tomlin's decision to get rid of Porter and give Harrison a chance. It was Tomlin's decision to open up the offense and trust Ben, which Cowher never did. Im not going to sit here and say Tomlin is a better coach than Cowher, but you are seriously downplaying what he has brought to this team.


It was Cowher's decison to put him on the roster and to give Harrison 44 games of experience...he also started Porter over Harrison because, at the time, Porter was better (maybe even in 2008 and 2009).

Tomlin is a good coach...is that what you were looking for?

He's not good enough to maintain the level of play (and player) that was on the team before he came, however.

You want to give him credit for the 2007 draft? Fine...then what? What have you gotten since but a bunch of question marks, busts, and free agency losses?
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Last edited by Entropy on Tue May 07, 2013 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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