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DKDALfan
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 2824
Location: Denmark
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 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | This is likely Hatchers last year with us.
That said, football is all about the long and short game. Some players are exceptional - albeit only have an impact for a few seasons - some grow into stars after the course of a while.
Hatcher is an excellent player and likely will be for us again next year. Which bodes well on two fronts: We get a fantastic performance AND will likely be able to receive high compensation when he signs elsewhere. |
Here's what's troubling: if this is indeed Hatcher's last season with the team, why didn't we address the d-line in the draft? It's not like Ratliff is going to on the team for much longer either given his age, injury history, and declining production due to being miscast as a NT for so many years. |
I'd guess that it is a combination of there wasn't a DT at the top of the board (and when there where, Kiffin/Marinelli didn't like him) and that we wanted to see if Lissemore and/or Crawford will be able to take over.. I don't have a issue with seeing how Lisse and Crawford (can't forget the tampa guy as well) will do in this D before going for someone in the draft that either isn't high on our board or not well liked by the D coaches. This year, we have very good depth at DT so I understand why they postpone the issue until next year if our draft picks was as clearly the best on their board as they say (even tho I would rather have had Hankins with that second round pick).
- Maybe the plan is that re-signing Hatcher is the top priority, that could be a option as well. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 46945
Location: ROH Class of 14
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | This is likely Hatchers last year with us.
That said, football is all about the long and short game. Some players are exceptional - albeit only have an impact for a few seasons - some grow into stars after the course of a while.
Hatcher is an excellent player and likely will be for us again next year. Which bodes well on two fronts: We get a fantastic performance AND will likely be able to receive high compensation when he signs elsewhere. |
Here's what's troubling: if this is indeed Hatcher's last season with the team, why didn't we address the d-line in the draft? It's not like Ratliff is going to on the team for much longer either given his age, injury history, and declining production due to being miscast as a NT for so many years. |
Perhaps because we like what we have in Lissemore and spent a 3rd on a DT in 2012? Perhaps because they had the foresight to know their gaping holes in 2-3yrs and are finding talent to groom there so that we dont have a desperate need there at the last second and can open up Cap space to sign veterans at positions of need that tend to be cheaper in FA than others? Perhaps theyre learning from past mistakes and addressing it so as to prevent it from happening again in the future...
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Desperado82
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 37656
Location: Somewhere in the middle
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | This is likely Hatchers last year with us.
That said, football is all about the long and short game. Some players are exceptional - albeit only have an impact for a few seasons - some grow into stars after the course of a while.
Hatcher is an excellent player and likely will be for us again next year. Which bodes well on two fronts: We get a fantastic performance AND will likely be able to receive high compensation when he signs elsewhere. |
Here's what's troubling: if this is indeed Hatcher's last season with the team, why didn't we address the d-line in the draft? It's not like Ratliff is going to on the team for much longer either given his age, injury history, and declining production due to being miscast as a NT for so many years. |
Perhaps because we like what we have in Lissemore and spent a 3rd on a DT in 2012? Perhaps because they had the foresight to know their gaping holes in 2-3yrs and are finding talent to groom there so that we dont have a desperate need there at the last second and can open up Cap space to sign veterans at positions of need that tend to be cheaper in FA than others? Perhaps theyre learning from past mistakes and addressing it so as to prevent it from happening again in the future... |
No! That's not true! That's impossible!
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23296
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | This is likely Hatchers last year with us.
That said, football is all about the long and short game. Some players are exceptional - albeit only have an impact for a few seasons - some grow into stars after the course of a while.
Hatcher is an excellent player and likely will be for us again next year. Which bodes well on two fronts: We get a fantastic performance AND will likely be able to receive high compensation when he signs elsewhere. |
Here's what's troubling: if this is indeed Hatcher's last season with the team, why didn't we address the d-line in the draft? It's not like Ratliff is going to on the team for much longer either given his age, injury history, and declining production due to being miscast as a NT for so many years. |
Perhaps because we like what we have in Lissemore and spent a 3rd on a DT in 2012? Perhaps because they had the foresight to know their gaping holes in 2-3yrs and are finding talent to groom there so that we dont have a desperate need there at the last second and can open up Cap space to sign veterans at positions of need that tend to be cheaper in FA than others? Perhaps theyre learning from past mistakes and addressing it so as to prevent it from happening again in the future... |
I don't see how ignoring the area in the draft is addressing it. I understand that we've signed a few guys and have drafted players in the past (all good things, in my opinion), but a draft like this past one is one where more depth and talent can be found. As we've seen in recent years, one or two guys won't cut it, but solid depth at the d-line will. I just think we're much thinner at the d-line than some are willing to admit. That's all.
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 15309
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think I've officially heard it all now... Failing to draft DL is learning from their mistakes in the past???
I'll let Sturm address this one from yeaterday...
| Quote: | | As for investment on the "bigs" over the skill guys, there is no question that this is not of interest to Jerry Jones and no matter how long I write about the Cowboys investing in WR, CB, RB, and TE, will always outnumber their investment in DE, T, G, and DT, it won't change it. |
Sturm's right. 3 second round investments in TE since 2006 while having an all pro TE in the prime of his career (not to mention the numerous later round TE selections over that same time frame) really speaks volumes IMO. This seems a lot more like reliving mistakes past than learning from them. |
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pierrepet
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5841
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | This is likely Hatchers last year with us.
That said, football is all about the long and short game. Some players are exceptional - albeit only have an impact for a few seasons - some grow into stars after the course of a while.
Hatcher is an excellent player and likely will be for us again next year. Which bodes well on two fronts: We get a fantastic performance AND will likely be able to receive high compensation when he signs elsewhere. |
Here's what's troubling: if this is indeed Hatcher's last season with the team, why didn't we address the d-line in the draft? It's not like Ratliff is going to on the team for much longer either given his age, injury history, and declining production due to being miscast as a NT for so many years. |
Perhaps because we like what we have in Lissemore and spent a 3rd on a DT in 2012? Perhaps because they had the foresight to know their gaping holes in 2-3yrs and are finding talent to groom there so that we dont have a desperate need there at the last second and can open up Cap space to sign veterans at positions of need that tend to be cheaper in FA than others? Perhaps theyre learning from past mistakes and addressing it so as to prevent it from happening again in the future... |
I don't see how ignoring the area in the draft is addressing it. I understand that we've signed a few guys and have drafted players in the past (all good things, in my opinion), but a draft like this past one is one where more depth and talent can be found. As we've seen in recent years, one or two guys won't cut it, but solid depth at the d-line will. I just think we're much thinner at the d-line than some are willing to admit. That's all. |
While I too would have liked to address the line, I think the outcome of the draft was due more to BPA and the fact that the D-lineman Dallas was targeting were not available.
From what I have heard, Dallas liked Short (Purdue) and Bennie Logan. Both players were picked before our picks in the 2nd and 3rd round. Dallas was also linked to Sylvester Williams, who went three picks before 31.
After the first 3 rounds, I am not sure any defensive lineman taken in this draft would have had any opportunity to beat out the players we already have on our roster.
Criticize the front office all you want, but need is only one part of the draft and this draft just did not fall that way for Dallas. In my opinion, that includes Floyd, as I dont think he is the disrupter / penetrator that many mock drafters believe he is.
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 28320
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | I think I've officially heard it all now... Failing to draft DL is learning from their mistakes in the past???
I'll let Sturm address this one from yeaterday...
| Quote: | | As for investment on the "bigs" over the skill guys, there is no question that this is not of interest to Jerry Jones and no matter how long I write about the Cowboys investing in WR, CB, RB, and TE, will always outnumber their investment in DE, T, G, and DT, it won't change it. |
Sturm's right. 3 second round investments in TE since 2006 while having an all pro TE in the prime of his career (not to mention the numerous later round TE selections over that same time frame) really speaks volumes IMO. This seems a lot more like reliving mistakes past than learning from them. |
It's pretty clear he wants a second starting TE. That has been Redballs wish since he first got here. I think they will continue until they get one they like.
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WizardHawk
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 15678
Location: Hawkeye State
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | I think I've officially heard it all now... Failing to draft DL is learning from their mistakes in the past???
I'll let Sturm address this one from yeaterday...
| Quote: | | As for investment on the "bigs" over the skill guys, there is no question that this is not of interest to Jerry Jones and no matter how long I write about the Cowboys investing in WR, CB, RB, and TE, will always outnumber their investment in DE, T, G, and DT, it won't change it. |
Sturm's right. 3 second round investments in TE since 2006 while having an all pro TE in the prime of his career (not to mention the numerous later round TE selections over that same time frame) really speaks volumes IMO. This seems a lot more like reliving mistakes past than learning from them. |
It's pretty clear he wants a second starting TE. That has been Redballs wish since he first got here. I think they will continue until they get one they like. |
Hope they get it right before hell freezes over.
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 46945
Location: ROH Class of 14
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | I think I've officially heard it all now... Failing to draft DL is learning from their mistakes in the past???
I'll let Sturm address this one from yeaterday...
| Quote: | | As for investment on the "bigs" over the skill guys, there is no question that this is not of interest to Jerry Jones and no matter how long I write about the Cowboys investing in WR, CB, RB, and TE, will always outnumber their investment in DE, T, G, and DT, it won't change it. |
Sturm's right. 3 second round investments in TE since 2006 while having an all pro TE in the prime of his career (not to mention the numerous later round TE selections over that same time frame) really speaks volumes IMO. This seems a lot more like reliving mistakes past than learning from them. |
The fact my point went over your head isnt surprising.
What have you constantly complained about this offseason? Cap management
What did drafting Escobar, Williams , Webb, etc give us? An option to better manage the cap
We drafted DL in the 3rd last year and have developed great talent from late round to undrafted picks and have 3 players who are solid proven starters to go with that 3rd roundpick in addition to a Price who is still as talented as he ever was. Thats 5 players for2 spots and dodoesn't include the 3 or 4 developmental guys we have and signed in January.
DT Doesn't concern me but our depth at DE does but so does our depth at LBer
There are tons of holes and weak spots and you cant fill them all in one offseason. You also have to manage your cap 3-4yrs out and thats what they did. If it lets them cut Austin and Scandrick after this season and use those funds elsewhere to get a better return on their investment then these were wise draft picks.
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 15309
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | I think I've officially heard it all now... Failing to draft DL is learning from their mistakes in the past???
I'll let Sturm address this one from yeaterday...
| Quote: | | As for investment on the "bigs" over the skill guys, there is no question that this is not of interest to Jerry Jones and no matter how long I write about the Cowboys investing in WR, CB, RB, and TE, will always outnumber their investment in DE, T, G, and DT, it won't change it. |
Sturm's right. 3 second round investments in TE since 2006 while having an all pro TE in the prime of his career (not to mention the numerous later round TE selections over that same time frame) really speaks volumes IMO. This seems a lot more like reliving mistakes past than learning from them. |
The fact my point went over your head isnt surprising.
What have you constantly complained about this offseason? Cap management
What did drafting Escobar, Williams , Webb, etc give us? An option to better manage the cap
We drafted DL in the 3rd last year and have developed great talent from late round to undrafted picks and have 3 players who are solid proven starters to go with that 3rd roundpick in addition to a Price who is still as talented as he ever was. Thats 5 players for2 spots and dodoesn't include the 3 or 4 developmental guys we have and signed in January.
DT Doesn't concern me but our depth at DE does but so does our depth at LBer
There are tons of holes and weak spots and you cant fill them all in one offseason. You also have to manage your cap 3-4yrs out and thats what they did. If it lets them cut Austin and Scandrick after this season and use those funds elsewhere to get a better return on their investment then these were wise draft picks. |
Can you identify these great late round/UDFAs talents in the post BP era? |
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GeneralDissaray
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 6488
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: |
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This year may not be the best for Garrett, but it could be good for Dallas' future. We may be forced this year to find out what we have or don't have in players like Crawford, Wilbur, Johnson, Church, Arkin, Leary, Harris, and Beastley.
I think Williams was brought in to allow Dallas to cut/trade Austin in 2014(8mil cap#). Webb to replace Scandrick in 2014(5mil cap#). I hope either Crawford or Wilbur can replace Spencer, so we don't re-sign/extend him. Romo may get killed, but at least we will know, barring injuries, whether Arkin, Leary, and Parnell are legit starters. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 46945
Location: ROH Class of 14
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Simple read of my recent draft thread would have answered that question for you
Again I think youre missing the point I clearly made
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GeneralDissaray wrote: | This year may not be the best for Garrett, but it could be good for Dallas' future. We may be forced this year to find out what we have or don't have in players like Crawford, Wilbur, Johnson, Church, Arkin, Leary, Harris, and Beastley.
I think Williams was brought in to allow Dallas to cut/trade Austin in 2014(8mil cap#). Webb to replace Scandrick in 2014(5mil cap#). I hope either Crawford or Wilbur can replace Spencer, so we don't re-sign/extend him. Romo may get killed, but at least we will know, barring injuries, whether Arkin, Leary, and Parnell are legit starters. |
It's pretty clear that our strategy going in was to run a financial management draft this year. We looked for value - and got it in spades in the 3rd round - but were equally focused on finding players who can/hopefully will replace some of the current players who have albatross contracts. While I'm upset that we did next to nothing on o-line (and, as you know, I really liked the Frederick selection) and literally nothing on d-line, we need to have some younger guys at those positions to eliminate the significant cap burdens that guys like Miles Austin and Scandrick have relative to their on-field perfomances.
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
| Northland wrote: | | If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 46945
Location: ROH Class of 14
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | GeneralDissaray wrote: | This year may not be the best for Garrett, but it could be good for Dallas' future. We may be forced this year to find out what we have or don't have in players like Crawford, Wilbur, Johnson, Church, Arkin, Leary, Harris, and Beastley.
I think Williams was brought in to allow Dallas to cut/trade Austin in 2014(8mil cap#). Webb to replace Scandrick in 2014(5mil cap#). I hope either Crawford or Wilbur can replace Spencer, so we don't re-sign/extend him. Romo may get killed, but at least we will know, barring injuries, whether Arkin, Leary, and Parnell are legit starters. |
It's pretty clear that our strategy going in was to run a financial management draft this year. We looked for value - and got it in spades in the 3rd round - but were equally focused on finding players who can/hopefully will replace some of the current players who have albatross contracts. While I'm upset that we did next to nothing on o-line (and, as you know, I really liked the Frederick selection) and literally nothing on d-line, we need to have some younger guys at those positions to eliminate the significant cap burdens that guys like Miles Austin and Scandrick have relative to their on-field perfomances. |
I think you and I agree here. In my redraft I wanted Frederick, Warford and Moore to go with Williams and our other picks but I can see the strategy they took and understand why they did.
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Desperado82
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 37656
Location: Somewhere in the middle
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Slightly off-topic, but I didn't feel this deserved its own thread and didn't know where else to post this. Here's a look at Ware's new facemask he'll be wearing this year
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