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Anyone else concerned about our Defense?
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.


I've been pimping David Arkin too....
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.


I've been pimping David Arkin too....


Not you, the team.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.


I've been pimping David Arkin too....


Not you, the team.


Ah...
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Dboys88-82


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.


I've been pimping David Arkin too....


Not you, the team.


Ah...


Des-- do we ever miss on a draft pick in your mind? lol Laughing
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dboys88-82 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.


I've been pimping David Arkin too....


Not you, the team.


Ah...


Des-- do we ever miss on a draft pick in your mind? lol Laughing


Laughing

Sure we do. Like Pat McQuistan and Boobie Carpenter, just to name a few.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
I believe what people are failing to realize is that the Dallas Cowboys are switching the way they build their team. Instead of throwing money to 6-7 free agents we will sign young free agents to small contracts and here and there a big splash, but overall we are looking to build through the draft even if it means we do not fill all our needs. This will cause us to see what we have on our team currently and then go from there. Many of the great organizations do this like the Packers and Steelers.


Please. I absolutely want to see what we have in Wilber, Crawford, Johnson, Albright, Hanna. If we don't what's the point of drafting these guys.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I worried about defense? Let's see...

At both safety spots, we'll field a combination of players who may or may not be anything more than space eaters who can stick to their assignment. Potentially a rookie with one year experience in his lifetime playing on defense. Or potentially a special teams ace who seems to lack any worth while ball skills. And highly likely that free agent who's nearly-average play at a position of dire need over the last 3, 4, 5 years gave cause for deprived-for-a-good-safety Dallas Cowboy fans to at least feel decent about one of the two safety spots.

At interior defensive line, we'll field a quality all-around player and a rotate a bunch of nobodies who, again, may or may not ever be anything more than space eaters who, with any luck, can at least stick to their assignment.

At defensive end, we'll field a "finish line is in sight" future hall of famer who has battled injuries the past two seasons and may or may not have 2, possibly 3 good years left in him. And opposite Ware, we'll have a heavily overpaid, slightly above average, likely-gone-next-year Horse shoe (Get it? We gave him credit/money for always being close, but never being on the mark) style pass rusher who just barely missed out on a big, stinking heap of first round bust labels with his play improving the last year and a half.

At linebacker, the team has two budding stars: Sean Lee and Bruce Carter. Both of whom have struggled to stay healthy in their pro, and even college, careers. I dont' care how good they are or may be, if you aren't on the field you're useless. Playing the third spot at LB will likely be either a rookie or subpar performer free agent - in either case, another one of those 'maybe they will, maybe they won't' situations where the best you can truly, truly hope for is someone who won't blow their assignment.

The only group on defense anyone can have any confidence in, for now and the long term, is cornerback. With Claiborne, Scandrick and Carr, Dallas has the overall coverage ability of Geico and Allstate combined. They have the speed and instincts to play in man coverage, but also the burst, physicality and ball skills to play quite well in zones. Not since Newman's younger days with Anthony Henry (His first couple seasons here, anyway) playing opposite of him has Dallas had a quality set of corners, let alone a reliable third guy.

That leaves 4 of 5 areas on defense that are left with relatively big question marks.

Who will fill that third linebacker spot - can Holloway be an impact rookie at a major position in a cover 2 schematic? Linebackes are vital to zone heavy defenses. One blown assignment can put a game out of reach.

Will a severely raw, potentially very talented prospect make any sort of impact at safety this year? How about next year? Takes a long time to make proper tackling form second nature. And reacting quickly to what you see of a pro offense can be a problem for guys who've played defense their whole life, let one someone who's played it only a year. Perhaps Barry Church or any number of guys in the mix can make a push for the starting job; but has anyone who watched them play seen anything that gives them a touch of excitement for the prospects of them starting on a team that is built to win now? Will that one true veteran starter be enough to keep this defense from being shredded up the seams?

Can Ware bounce back from his injuries and shine in his semi-new position? More importantly, can he stay on the field for 16 weeks or more this year while playing there - and beyond that, can he give us 2, 3, 4 more years of quality every-down play? Will Spencer finally realize that coming close only counts in Horse Shoes and Hand Grenades, and start making it to the QB? Can he actually learn to cover the edge from a 3 point stance and keep this defense from being gashed with strongside offtackle running? Will he be here longer than this season? If not, to the Ware and Spencer longevity questions, who steps in with the same veteran know-how? Who steps in to provide a highly talented prospect and potential long term solution? The answer to both of those questions is simple: We don't have either of those on the roster.

Interiorly, does this team rely on a Jay Ratliff who looked ragged, run down and beat up last year - when he could actually make it onto the field? They sort of have to. Becase behind him is a guy who may not even be able to play this season due to legal issues surrounding a car accident incident. And if said player is cleared for the season to play, was there any real fire behind him as a quality, potentially long term pocket collapser at DT? You can mix in Lissimore and all of the others who will rotate all across the line at DT and DE both, and still not get more than 3 or 4 sacks combined in a season. This new scheme relies on collapsing the pocket while the QB waits for his receivers to run to holes in the zone coverage; if that pocket doesn't collapse, zone coverage becomes as useful as melted ice.

Couple that with a scheme that, as of recent times in the NFL, has not worked nearly as well as it did in the mid 90s to early 2000s, and I worry. Couple all of those question marks with installing a new scheme and sliding in a lot of the old-scheme's players, and I worry.

This defene needs, sorely, an injection of youth and talent at four of the five areas of the unit. POssibly only three of five, if Lee and Carter can stay healthy; you can get by with just a guy at the third LB slot. But history has shown they can't stay on the field. The rookie additions seem to have some talent, but the odds of hitting on a good player in the rounds in which they were selected aren't very high. And with how raw they all are overall, regardless of the system fit, even if we have a real hit among them, it could still be 2 or 3 years before we can tangibly see that pick start to shine.

Everyone worried about the OL - I did too, and still do - but gone vastly overlooked, I'd say, is this defense. Too many question marks, too much age at key spots for this new system, and too many square pegs slipping into round slots in this scheme change. It is very possible that this team's offense shows huge improvement with Murray staying healthy, Romo staying upright, and better play calling - but the team still ends with a losing record, because of all those unanswered question marks on defense.
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this defense.

I spent my entire life in the Tampa Bay Area, Ive watched it, ingested it, I know the players that were here, and I know the talent that they have had here and elsewhere.

The Talent from the top to the bottom on this team, is better than the defensive talent on most TB teams.

And while Kiffin was in TB I dont think there was a year they finished outside the top 10 in total defense.

Even after Sapp left, the reign continued.

I compare Ratliff to Sapp, playing out of position for a few years can grind on your health, but if they switch the defense to something more suitable for his play style, he will succeed. The Tampa 2 perfectly fits Ratliff. Its all predicated on getting to the QB with a 4 man line. We have 3 SOLID pass rushers starting on the line, with the jury out on Crawford.

Dexter Jackson, Dwight Smith, i can go on and on about the Safeties who flourished next to Lynch here that failed anywhere else.

Barry Church can play football. This is for sure, he was a bright spot for us before the achilles, and god willing, he'll come back and be a solid S in this scheme. Being a Safety, in the Tampa 2, you need 2 things for sure:

-The ability to cover a lot of ground fast and being confident in your decision making skills.

If you watch Matt Johnson's college tape he does both. Obviously it doesnt mean he'll perform, but at some point we have to give these rookies a shot, we spent picks on them and its time to see if we hit the jackpot or lost to the dealer.

And everyone is forgetting about Will Allen, the only guy in the Steelers secondary that didnt get his lunch money taken. He has been in this system for a long time and brings Vet knowledge to the position. I wouldn't sleep on him.

Do I even need to say anything about the corner? May be our strongest spot on defense. These guys will take some heat off the Safeties.

Now to the LBs. Lee and Carter are penciled in somewhere along the 3 positions, Im not 100% positive Lee sticks at MLB. Again, these are smart players who have tons of athleticism and the ability to get sideline to sideline. The 43 scheme allows them to take less shots which should improve their health problems.

Durant will prove worthy on the Run Game, but I am worried about him oj passing downs. I hope one of the OLBs on the roster can come in and spell him on obvious passing downs.

If there is one position Im worried about, it's that spot. Then again most teams run in nickel more than half the time anyways, so maybe its not a HUGE problem.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Dboys88-82 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
And, not sure what to make of the FS spot.


MJ is going to rock our world.


This is like the most hype ever for a 4th Round pick. He better produce.


I've been pimping David Arkin too....


Not you, the team.


Ah...


Des-- do we ever miss on a draft pick in your mind? lol Laughing


Laughing

Sure we do. Like Pat McQuistan and Boobie Carpenter, just to name a few.


BLASPHEMY!
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:

The Talent from the top to the bottom on this team, is better than the defensive talent on most TB teams.


While I don't disagree, there is a major flaw in this statement. Perhaps simply something you're overlooking.

The guys playing on those TB defenses were hired specifically for that defense or were already there but fit perfectly into the schematic. They were all ideal fits for the style of defense Kiffin calls, and they all had the skillsets to be the best player they can be inside the role the defense gave them.

In Dallas, we've spent a decade selecting and signing guys for a vast different defensive type - and I'm not just talking about the 34 front vs the 43 front here. I'm also talking about the big, aggressive, strong players we've spent 10 years acquiring. Guys that fit a rush heavy, man coverage oriented defense. Guys that were picked up to converge on a ball carrier as a group. Guys that were drafted to be somehing entirely different from what they will be asked to be in this new defense.

This new defense is not blitz/rush heavy, like we've been drafting for. This new defense is not about swarming a ball carrier with pure speed, like we;ve been drafting for. This new defense is not about big, powerful DL who can eat up the gaps, occupy blockers and free the linebackers like we've been drafting for. This new defense is not about lining up one on one on the outside and covering a man stride for stride up the field like we've been drafting for.

No, instead, this defense is all about patience up front - collapsing a pocket from all angles but not sending extra rushers to get there quicker. No, instead, this defense is all about patience even in the secondary, guarding areas of the field and reacting only when an offensive player enters your area. No, instead, this new defense is all about letting the linebackers play in coverage, not forcing them to attack the LoS to shut down a run or blitz. No, instead, this new defense calls for a different set of skills and mentalities from everywhere across the board on defense than we've spent the last 10 years drafting and signing for.

Sorry to make it sound so blatantly obvious and perhaps come off as condescending; I promise that isn't what I'm going for. I'm more trying to explain, and to show clearly, that this defense - while highly talented - is by no means the ideal collection of players for this new defensive style.

When you spend 10 years drafting guys to fit a defense which is virtually the entire opposite of the defense you now plan to run, major personnel changes are going to be needed. Think of the last time we ran a cover 2 based defense, in 2003. Yeah, we were #1 unit that year in yards allowed. But when we changed to a more rush oriented, strength driven, man coverage based 34 front the following year, that same collection of players got abused. In coverage, at the LoS, and just about everywhere, our previously ranked #1 unit was near bottom of the league. That drastic system change, without a drastic change in personnel, was a total flop until we could bring in a slew of new guys to better fit our new direction. And don't even try to claim that our defensive woes in 04 was because we lost Darren Woodson - defenses field 11 guys, not 1.

That is what this team potentially faces this year, talent or no talent.
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=dallascowboys&id=4708384&city=dallas

And like clockwork, heres an article on safeties in Kiffin's defense.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=dallascowboys&id=4708384&city=dallas

And like clockwork, heres an article on safeties in Kiffin's defense.


Pretty good article, and a lot of it makes perfect sense.

I've said before, that a safety in a cover 2 oriented defense just needs to hold down his fort, so to speak, and not get caught out of position. They need a good closing burst and the ability to get to the ball in an instant. You don't need an Ed Reed and a Troy Polamalu. You can get by fine with decent guys who can play their assignment.

But it's not just the safety area that is our concern. As I pointed out, our defensive line, inside and outside, also has questions. Our linebacker corps also has questions. When you take questions at safety, add them to questions at linebacker, add them to questions at defensive end, and then add all that to questions at defensive tackle, the sum is not a good one.
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=dallascowboys&id=4708384&city=dallas

And like clockwork, heres an article on safeties in Kiffin's defense.


Pretty good article, and a lot of it makes perfect sense.

I've said before, that a safety in a cover 2 oriented defense just needs to hold down his fort, so to speak, and not get caught out of position. They need a good closing burst and the ability to get to the ball in an instant. You don't need an Ed Reed and a Troy Polamalu. You can get by fine with decent guys who can play their assignment.

But it's not just the safety area that is our concern. As I pointed out, our defensive line, inside and outside, also has questions. Our linebacker corps also has questions. When you take questions at safety, add them to questions at linebacker, add them to questions at defensive end, and then add all that to questions at defensive tackle, the sum is not a good one.


While I think we needed to draft DL in the draft, thats not a knock on what we have, I just wanted to get younger. These players we have on the line are more than suitable for this defense.

Rat, Liss, Hatch, Crawford are more than suitable and I think they can be used everywhere on the line.

Ware and Spencer will be terrifying to OLs in this scheme. 1 premier pass rusher and 1 above average pass rusher is more than anything Kiffin has ever had on those ends. Essentially forcing the OL to man up on the Inside in most cases and thats where Rat will pay dividends.

Dont sleep on Hatch either, 4 sacks isnt too shabby for the position he was playing last year.

Remember, the Tampa 2 is predicated on a 4 man QB rush, you tackle the Rb on the way to the QB. Concerns about run defense need to be thrown out the window.

Like I said, I agree with the LB spot, but I think Durant can perform OK, and we'll see if one of these rookies have got some skill in July.

Im going to say you're overreacting a little bit. It'll show in the fall. We've got the players, there may be a hiccup here or there. But we have the players we need to succeed with this defense.
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