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An article all Saints fans who doubted Vaccaro should read.
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thesolution


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1882
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krewebrees wrote:
thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


What? I'm not the only one who thinks IAQ should start. Shocked The nickel is a starter basically.

But seriously, what? IAQ being in nickel packages I get that. I don't get how he's in the nickel, but not base two safety set. So you're saying there is a better FS for cover 1 than IAQ and that he will be a better nickel corner than both White and Greer. Vaccaro's a man cover safety not zone and you can't seriously be talking about Jenkins. So please explain more because you lost me.


Vaccaro was also use at LB at Texas when teams ran the read option. I could see a scenario where against the NFC south teams they use in nickel package to stick the TE's. Rob Ryan ask a lot from his safeties. Only Jenkins and Vaccaro have what he's looking for.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haters gonna hate...

Jones is a Steeler, Vaccaro is a Saint... Get over it and move on!
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
krewebrees wrote:
thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


What? I'm not the only one who thinks IAQ should start. Shocked The nickel is a starter basically.

But seriously, what? IAQ being in nickel packages I get that. I don't get how he's in the nickel, but not base two safety set. So you're saying there is a better FS for cover 1 than IAQ and that he will be a better nickel corner than both White and Greer. Vaccaro's a man cover safety not zone and you can't seriously be talking about Jenkins. So please explain more because you lost me.


Vaccaro was also use at LB at Texas when teams ran the read option. I could see a scenario where against the NFC south teams they use in nickel package to stick the TE's. Rob Ryan ask a lot from his safeties. Only Jenkins and Vaccaro have what he's looking for.

Then why has all word from Saints camp been that Vaccaro and Harper project as the starters with Jenkins kicking to the slot? I'm sorry but its pretty clear that Jenkins is on the hot seat after his "play" last year and I really don't think Ryan has him in the future plans of this defense.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
krewebrees wrote:
thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


What? I'm not the only one who thinks IAQ should start. Shocked The nickel is a starter basically.

But seriously, what? IAQ being in nickel packages I get that. I don't get how he's in the nickel, but not base two safety set. So you're saying there is a better FS for cover 1 than IAQ and that he will be a better nickel corner than both White and Greer. Vaccaro's a man cover safety not zone and you can't seriously be talking about Jenkins. So please explain more because you lost me.


Vaccaro was also use at LB at Texas when teams ran the read option. I could see a scenario where against the NFC south teams they use in nickel package to stick the TE's. Rob Ryan ask a lot from his safeties. Only Jenkins and Vaccaro have what he's looking for.

Then why has all word from Saints camp been that Vaccaro and Harper project as the starters with Jenkins kicking to the slot? I'm sorry but its pretty clear that Jenkins is on the hot seat after his "play" last year and I really don't think Ryan has him in the future plans of this defense.


Actually... I'm with Harp here, Ryan is one of the few DC's left that prefers to have a traditional "in the box" SS. He will keep Harper close to the LOS to utlize his skills but that's not just because that's all Harper can do but because that's what Rob Ryan likes to do with his SS as well.

THis is the very reason Vaccaro was such a important pick for Ryans defense. In order to accomplish this you need a FS with range and instincts in the center field. Jenkins has failed at this and is better suited in the Nickel (which is a starter in todays NFL), Jenkins actually has his best production in the Nickel. Vaccaro is an actually safety not a corner converting.

Look for Vaccaro to man the middle and be the last line of defense on the back end of Ryans defense, while Harper roams the LOS looking to make plays in the box and blitzing. Jenkins will play mainly the Nickel and rotate in and out at FS in different packages. Rob Ryan is so deverse in his playcalling and sub packages, all 3 safetys will feel like starters and play just as much as the next.
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thesolution


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
krewebrees wrote:
thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


What? I'm not the only one who thinks IAQ should start. Shocked The nickel is a starter basically.

But seriously, what? IAQ being in nickel packages I get that. I don't get how he's in the nickel, but not base two safety set. So you're saying there is a better FS for cover 1 than IAQ and that he will be a better nickel corner than both White and Greer. Vaccaro's a man cover safety not zone and you can't seriously be talking about Jenkins. So please explain more because you lost me.


Vaccaro was also use at LB at Texas when teams ran the read option. I could see a scenario where against the NFC south teams they use in nickel package to stick the TE's. Rob Ryan ask a lot from his safeties. Only Jenkins and Vaccaro have what he's looking for.

Then why has all word from Saints camp been that Vaccaro and Harper project as the starters with Jenkins kicking to the slot? I'm sorry but its pretty clear that Jenkins is on the hot seat after his "play" last year and I really don't think Ryan has him in the future plans of this defense.


It's all speculations at this point. I don't know where you heard the starter comment from. From what I heard its competition at both positions. As far as the slot comment you heard that from Loomis. I don't see that happening unless our corners suck or have a bunch of injuries. The reason I don't see Harper as a starter because he will limit Vaccaro.
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
krewebrees wrote:
thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


What? I'm not the only one who thinks IAQ should start. Shocked The nickel is a starter basically.

But seriously, what? IAQ being in nickel packages I get that. I don't get how he's in the nickel, but not base two safety set. So you're saying there is a better FS for cover 1 than IAQ and that he will be a better nickel corner than both White and Greer. Vaccaro's a man cover safety not zone and you can't seriously be talking about Jenkins. So please explain more because you lost me.


Vaccaro was also use at LB at Texas when teams ran the read option. I could see a scenario where against the NFC south teams they use in nickel package to stick the TE's. Rob Ryan ask a lot from his safeties. Only Jenkins and Vaccaro have what he's looking for.

Then why has all word from Saints camp been that Vaccaro and Harper project as the starters with Jenkins kicking to the slot? I'm sorry but its pretty clear that Jenkins is on the hot seat after his "play" last year and I really don't think Ryan has him in the future plans of this defense.


Nobody knows God's plan for our lives. Likewise, nobody knows what Ryan's plan is for the Saints defense. I have tried to use some brain power to figure it out and simply can't.

On paper it makes absolutely NO sense to have Vaccaro at FS, Jenkins in slot, and Harper at SS. Primarily because that would be a complete misuse of Vaccaro's abilities and will be setting him up to fail. If the Saints wanted to get a deep FS that would be playing cover-1...they should have looked elsewhere. Vaccaro excels in man coverage and making plays in the box...he is either the slot or the SS. He is NOT a FS in passing downs.

The only scenarios that makes ANY SENSE AT ALL is if:
1) Harper plays SS, Vaccaro plays slot, and IAQ plays FS

2) Vaccaro plays SS, Jenkins plays slot, and IAQ plays FS

In scenario 1, Jenkins would play in dime situations. But otherwise...I don't see how Vaccaro + Harper + Jenkins is going to work.

But then again...I am no Rob Ryan.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpOW8jeo4sY

Kenny Vaccaro's athleticism is being very underrated by many fans here. He is much more athletic than his 40 time would imply. To say him and Harper are comparable athletes is just wrong Laughing
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navysaintsfan


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpOW8jeo4sY

Kenny Vaccaro's athleticism is being very underrated by many fans here. He is much more athletic than his 40 time would imply. To say him and Harper are comparable athletes is just wrong Laughing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uMBbkSMppM

YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH SCIENCE!
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Lombardi Gras


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the looks of it I am underrating his athleticism. That was impressive. I can't say I am fully on the bandwagon, but I definitely don't see that as a weakness anymore.
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpOW8jeo4sY

Kenny Vaccaro's athleticism is being very underrated by many fans here. He is much more athletic than his 40 time would imply. To say him and Harper are comparable athletes is just wrong Laughing


I love this kid.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a lot of us are underrating Vaccaros coverage abilities. He could absolutely play deep zone. The guy has incredible instincts and acceleration. I feel the main issue is a lot of us wanted a pass rusher and because we didn't select one at 15, people are upset. As I said before, Vacarro is a better prospect then Barron who went #7 overall and I see Vacarro having a huge impact on our defense.
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I think a lot of us are underrating Vaccaros coverage abilities. He could absolutely play deep zone. The guy has incredible instincts and acceleration. I feel the main issue is a lot of us wanted a pass rusher and because we didn't select one at 15, people are upset. As I said before, Vacarro is a better prospect then Barron who went #7 overall and I see Vacarro having a huge impact on our defense.


Moral Of the Jenkins Story: IQ and Man Coverage Ability doesn't Always Mean Zone Coverage Ability. The Only Way You Know If He Can Do It Is By Seeing Him Do it.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I think a lot of us are underrating Vaccaros coverage abilities. He could absolutely play deep zone. The guy has incredible instincts and acceleration. I feel the main issue is a lot of us wanted a pass rusher and because we didn't select one at 15, people are upset. As I said before, Vacarro is a better prospect then Barron who went #7 overall and I see Vacarro having a huge impact on our defense.


Moral Of the Jenkins Story: IQ and Man Coverage Ability doesn't Always Mean Zone Coverage Ability. The Only Way You Know If He Can Do It Is By Seeing Him Do it.

Jenkins was also a converted CB, Vaccaro played at safety and he played in zone coverage sometimes at Texas. Plus, who said Jenkins was a high IQ safety? He played CB his entire career at Ohio State, we had NO way of knowing how his IQ would be at FS.
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navysaintsfan


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I think a lot of us are underrating Vaccaros coverage abilities. He could absolutely play deep zone. The guy has incredible instincts and acceleration. I feel the main issue is a lot of us wanted a pass rusher and because we didn't select one at 15, people are upset. As I said before, Vacarro is a better prospect then Barron who went #7 overall and I see Vacarro having a huge impact on our defense.


Moral Of the Jenkins Story: IQ and Man Coverage Ability doesn't Always Mean Zone Coverage Ability. The Only Way You Know If He Can Do It Is By Seeing Him Do it.

Jenkins was also a converted CB, Vaccaro played at safety and he played in zone coverage sometimes at Texas. Plus, who said Jenkins was a high IQ safety? He played CB his entire career at Ohio State, we had NO way of knowing how his IQ would be at FS.


That part is not entirely true. I believe his senior season he played a ton of Safety at OSU. In fact I remember reading that most of his INTs that season came from him at the S position instead of CB.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

navysaintsfan wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I think a lot of us are underrating Vaccaros coverage abilities. He could absolutely play deep zone. The guy has incredible instincts and acceleration. I feel the main issue is a lot of us wanted a pass rusher and because we didn't select one at 15, people are upset. As I said before, Vacarro is a better prospect then Barron who went #7 overall and I see Vacarro having a huge impact on our defense.


Moral Of the Jenkins Story: IQ and Man Coverage Ability doesn't Always Mean Zone Coverage Ability. The Only Way You Know If He Can Do It Is By Seeing Him Do it.

Jenkins was also a converted CB, Vaccaro played at safety and he played in zone coverage sometimes at Texas. Plus, who said Jenkins was a high IQ safety? He played CB his entire career at Ohio State, we had NO way of knowing how his IQ would be at FS.


That part is not entirely true. I believe his senior season he played a ton of Safety at OSU. In fact I remember reading that most of his INTs that season came from him at the S position instead of CB.

I'm sure he played a bit of it here and there but I don't remember him ever playing it for significant amounts of time, I'm sure Raves would know better then us though so I'll wait for him to chyme in. My point was though, that just because Jenkins had a good football IQ at CB it doesn't necessarily mean he'll have a good football IQ at S.
Man reading these scouting reports from Jenkins college days makes me sad though, I remember how excited I was when we drafted him Crying or Very sad
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