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An article all Saints fans who doubted Vaccaro should read.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Vacarro is a much better prospect then Mark Barron who went #7 overall last year so...I don't see the issue everyone has.


THIS

Thank you!!!

If anyone is a more athletic Roman Harper it's Mark Barron. Vaccaro is in a whole nother realm athletically than either of those two! I also love how most that have a issue with Vaccaro point to Texas having a horrid defense last season. When I hear people say that it tells me one of two things...

1. They either never watched a Texas game with Vaccaro in it.

OR

2. They absolutely have zero knowledge of the Safety position in general!
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Vacarro is a much better prospect then Mark Barron who went #7 overall last year so...I don't see the issue everyone has.


THIS

Thank you!!!

If anyone is a more athletic Roman Harper it's Mark Barron. Vaccaro is in a whole nother realm athletically than either of those two! I also love how most that have a issue with Vaccaro point to Texas having a horrid defense last season. When I hear people say that it tells me one of two things...

1. They either never watched a Texas game with Vaccaro in it.

OR

2. They absolutely have zero knowledge of the Safety position in general!

Plus, I couldn't care less how Texas defense did as a whole. Its a "Team Game". Look at our defense...Curtis Lofton, Cameron Jordan, Jabari Greer and Akiem Hicks are all good players but we just had the worst defense in NFL history. Doesn't mean I want to get rid of those players.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Vacarro is a much better prospect then Mark Barron who went #7 overall last year so...I don't see the issue everyone has.


THIS

Thank you!!!

If anyone is a more athletic Roman Harper it's Mark Barron. Vaccaro is in a whole nother realm athletically than either of those two! I also love how most that have a issue with Vaccaro point to Texas having a horrid defense last season. When I hear people say that it tells me one of two things...

1. They either never watched a Texas game with Vaccaro in it.

OR

2. They absolutely have zero knowledge of the Safety position in general!


Yup. Well said worm.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you know a thing or two. Wink
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Vacarro is a much better prospect then Mark Barron who went #7 overall last year so...I don't see the issue everyone has.


THIS

Thank you!!!

If anyone is a more athletic Roman Harper it's Mark Barron. Vaccaro is in a whole nother realm athletically than either of those two! I also love how most that have a issue with Vaccaro point to Texas having a horrid defense last season. When I hear people say that it tells me one of two things...

1. They either never watched a Texas game with Vaccaro in it.

OR

2. They absolutely have zero knowledge of the Safety position in general!


Yup. Well said worm.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you know a thing or two. Wink


I try... Very Happy
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thesolution


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.
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Lombardi Gras


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Vacarro is a much better prospect then Mark Barron who went #7 overall last year so...I don't see the issue everyone has.


It's debatable that he's even a better prospect. Much better is a hyperbole.

I don't share the same (blind) optimism. Also there is more holding Harper back than just athleticism. He struggles in all sorts of coverage. He does not diagnose passing plays well, and takes poor angles. Those are aspects of his game that he has worked on, but cannot seem to be better than average at best.

Both Harper and Vaccaro ran about 4.5 second 40s. Unfortunately, in the quick google search, I was not able to compare all aspects of their combine results. But I don't see him as significantly more athletic than Harper...but definitely more athletic.

Our defense needs to be opportunistic for our offense. I want a guy that will create turnovers and/or have players fearing to catch the ball over the middle of the field because they know this guy is flying everywhere.

As for the Tavon Austin comment...also overrated. I don't think he will be a success in the NFL in the mold of Desean Jackson at all. He's a poor mans' Desean who will not be able to handle the jump in physicality at the next level. If there's one thing that Vaccaro has...it's physicality, so it does not shock me that he did well, though I did not watch that game.
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Lombardi Gras


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, in general, telling someone to go watch someone perform in college as a definitive argument about what they can do in the pros is a poor one.

There are a plethora of examples of players who have great careers in college, and don't translate to the pros.
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krewebrees


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


What? I'm not the only one who thinks IAQ should start. Shocked The nickel is a starter basically.

But seriously, what? IAQ being in nickel packages I get that. I don't get how he's in the nickel, but not base two safety set. So you're saying there is a better FS for cover 1 than IAQ and that he will be a better nickel corner than both White and Greer. Vaccaro's a man cover safety not zone and you can't seriously be talking about Jenkins. So please explain more because you lost me.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lombardi Gras wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Vacarro is a much better prospect then Mark Barron who went #7 overall last year so...I don't see the issue everyone has.


It's debatable that he's even a better prospect. Much better is a hyperbole.

I don't share the same (blind) optimism. Also there is more holding Harper back than just athleticism. He struggles in all sorts of coverage. He does not diagnose passing plays well, and takes poor angles. Those are aspects of his game that he has worked on, but cannot seem to be better than average at best.

Both Harper and Vaccaro ran about 4.5 second 40s. Unfortunately, in the quick google search, I was not able to compare all aspects of their combine results. But I don't see him as significantly more athletic than Harper...but definitely more athletic.

Our defense needs to be opportunistic for our offense. I want a guy that will create turnovers and/or have players fearing to catch the ball over the middle of the field because they know this guy is flying everywhere.

As for the Tavon Austin comment...also overrated. I don't think he will be a success in the NFL in the mold of Desean Jackson at all. He's a poor mans' Desean who will not be able to handle the jump in physicality at the next level. If there's one thing that Vaccaro has...it's physicality, so it does not shock me that he did well, though I did not watch that game.

What? I'm sorry but what you said was just blatantly false. The ONLY reason Harper is even semi useful in zone coverage and in the red zone is because of how good he is at reading the play. The guys an incredibly intelligent player...And LOL, watch Vacarro play. I don't care what teh 40 time says, he's on a whole nother level of athleticism then Harper is.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then you refer to Tavon Austin as a poor mans Desean Jackson...I just...IDK anymore. Tavon Austin is a better prospect then Desean, he's quicker, has better hands, better body control and is a much better route runner. Desean Jackson is the definition of a one trick pony.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lombardi Gras wrote:
I don't share the same (blind) optimism. Also there is more holding Harper back than just athleticism. He struggles in all sorts of coverage. He does not diagnose passing plays well, and takes poor angles. Those are aspects of his game that he has worked on, but cannot seem to be better than average at best.

Both Harper and Vaccaro ran about 4.5 second 40s. Unfortunately, in the quick google search, I was not able to compare all aspects of their combine results. But I don't see him as significantly more athletic than Harper...but definitely more athletic.


I disagree with this. Harper absolutely can diagnose passing plays and knows where to be in coverage, his issue is getting there.

You think a guy who isn't athletic and can't diagnose passing plays is really going to make it in the NFL for as long as Harper has? He obviously has something going for him, and what he has is the fact that he's probably one of the smartest players on the defense. He knows where to be, he understands how defenses work, and he has good instincts, he just doesn't have the athleticism to put all of that stuff to good use.

Also, there is more to athleticism than straight line speed, but I'm sure you know that.
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SaintsBeast


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


You'd be just as well off giving St. Louis a TD... Like, why ask a strong safety to do something like that? You need a CORNERBACK for that. A fast one, too. Like if i were on the Saints coaching staff, i wouldn't even ask Greer, who has been our starting CB for like what, 4, 5 years now? to do that. He's too slow. I don't care if Vacarro is miles more athletic than Harper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H84nK2lSw7E

IT AIN'T SAYIN MUCH TO SAY VACARRO IS WAY MORE ATHLETIC.

My point is, you don't ask a player like Harper, or Vacarro, or Greer, or Elbert Mack to cover a sub 4.3 runner. You leave that to Jenkins, Robinson, or our new guy, Keenan Lewis.
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Lombardi Gras


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
And then you refer to Tavon Austin as a poor mans Desean Jackson...I just...IDK anymore. Tavon Austin is a better prospect then Desean, he's quicker, has better hands, better body control and is a much better route runner. Desean Jackson is the definition of a one trick pony.


That's just like, your opinion, man. Desean is asked to do too much for his role. Put him in the slot as someone that's not a #1 receiver and see him thrive. I think you'll see Tavon Austin deal with similar troubles.

In regards to NSF, I would agree that he's one of the smarter players on our defense, but that's damning with faint praise. He is excellent at diagnosing the run and acting instincitvely to get the ball carrier. He can track the ball carrier. What he can't do is track routes (relative in comparison to other strong safeties obviously...).

What's kept him as a starter for so long, and not as a situational player, is A) lack of anyone better and B) how effective he is as an in the box safety - he's excellent. Problem is that in the box safeties are a dying breed as more dynamic safeties are needed (in the supposed mold of Vaccaro) to handle the multi-faceted offenses the NFL has today.

40 time was just an example. I hope no one construed that to be my definition of athleticism. Even an assessment of all the combine results isn't necessarily the most accurate indicators of athleticism. Just makes it easier to evaluate certain aspects of it.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vacarro is more athletic than Jenkins.
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thesolution


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaintsBeast wrote:
thesolution wrote:
He's a better version of Roman Harper? All I can say is go watch him cover Tavon Austin then come back on here and tell me what safety can do better? But I would like to see IAQ get a shot in Nickel situation.


You'd be just as well off giving St. Louis a TD... Like, why ask a strong safety to do something like that? You need a CORNERBACK for that. A fast one, too. Like if i were on the Saints coaching staff, i wouldn't even ask Greer, who has been our starting CB for like what, 4, 5 years now? to do that. He's too slow. I don't care if Vacarro is miles more athletic than Harper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H84nK2lSw7E

IT AIN'T SAYIN MUCH TO SAY VACARRO IS WAY MORE ATHLETIC.

My point is, you don't ask a player like Harper, or Vacarro, or Greer, or Elbert Mack to cover a sub 4.3 runner. You leave that to Jenkins, Robinson, or our new guy, Keenan Lewis.


What? I'm not saying Vaccaro is going to stick him in the pro's. I said go look at him in college playin NB on Austin. He held his own which is why it's hard to compare him to Harper.
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