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mikejets22


Joined: 02 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:
Man, the more Geno I watch, the more average he looks.

After we drafted him I've been really trying to convince myself otherwise. I just don't know that he would have been so hyped if it weren't for Austin and Bailey. Yes, Geno is quick and fairly accurate with shorts routes and screens and letting his guys tear it up - but aside from that he looks fairly underwhelming. I hope I'm wrong (obviously) but I still think we may have been better suited going in a different direction in the second - safety, TE, WR etc. There were some stellar options still available.

Oh well, it's in the past now and here's to hoping I'm way off on the kid, but I just think he got way overrated/hyped his senior season.


what dont you like


Like I said, he just looks average. It's a fair question to wonder is he the one who lead to those stats or was it his playmakers? Most of his throws past 5 yards were iffy. Some were solid others were erratic.

I do like his ability to run that high tempo offense with efficiency, there is something to be said for that ability. I'm not saying I hate him, but I just feel like if your drafting a QB in the first 2 rounds you have to love him, especially with so many needs. Don't think he's going to be a grade A bust, but I'm not 100% sold that he's the future of the NYJ.

I feel like there might be something to be said for quite a few QB needy teams passing on him twice. That said - I hope I'm totally wrong and I'm somewhat ok with taking this chance Bc we mitigated our risk by taking him in 2nd and not 1st.
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mikejets22


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again my feelings are generally "meh" about Geno, but here is an instance of something I LOVE.


Starting at 7:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zqqutj6Uo



3rd and 18 after being crushed by an unblocked blitz on 1st down, under heavy pressure again, keeps his head down field and maintains his footwork, finds the open receiver and delivers a strike.

Doesn't get the first down, but he handled the situation perfectly. Refreshing to see that poise under duress.
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all the talk about Geno's playmakers and him having Austin and Bailey since it does come up a lot:

Fleener/Ertz
Lee/Woods
Wright/Williams

A lot of players and top prospects who had great college production had playmakers and highly touted players on their supporting cast in the receiving game. Many of them also had high caliber runners (WVU did not have a 1000 yard rusher in any season Geno started), or drafted lineman (no WVU linemen were drafted that played while Geno was there, and it's very unlikely any of the non-seniors that played last year will be considered draftable prospects).

Austin and Bailey were great, but they're also small WRs, and no better of a duo than a lot of other QBs got to play with, while his run game and offensive line were far worse that what most QBs that put up his kind of production had to work with.
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mikejets22


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
For all the talk about Geno's playmakers and him having Austin and Bailey since it does come up a lot:

Fleener/Ertz
Lee/Woods
Wright/Williams

A lot of players and top prospects who had great college production had playmakers and highly touted players on their supporting cast in the receiving game. Many of them also had high caliber runners (WVU did not have a 1000 yard rusher in any season Geno started), or drafted lineman (no WVU linemen were drafted that played while Geno was there, and it's very unlikely any of the non-seniors that played last year will be considered draftable prospects).

Austin and Bailey were great, but they're also small WRs, and no better of a duo than a lot of other QBs got to play with, while his run game and offensive line were far worse that what most QBs that put up his kind of production had to work with.


The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.
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KingOfTheHill84


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikejets22 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
For all the talk about Geno's playmakers and him having Austin and Bailey since it does come up a lot:

Fleener/Ertz
Lee/Woods
Wright/Williams

A lot of players and top prospects who had great college production had playmakers and highly touted players on their supporting cast in the receiving game. Many of them also had high caliber runners (WVU did not have a 1000 yard rusher in any season Geno started), or drafted lineman (no WVU linemen were drafted that played while Geno was there, and it's very unlikely any of the non-seniors that played last year will be considered draftable prospects).

Austin and Bailey were great, but they're also small WRs, and no better of a duo than a lot of other QBs got to play with, while his run game and offensive line were far worse that what most QBs that put up his kind of production had to work with.


The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.


dont scout his stats bro, his skill set fits what we want to do on offense, dont worry about how his college coach ran their offense, he was trying to get his playmakers the ball not showcase Geno's pro ability.

Geno will be fine
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Raoul Duke


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikejets22 wrote:

The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.


True, but it was also an offense that required more than 1 read generally. It was a more complicated offense than, say, what Kaepernick or even Cam Newton ran. It wasn't a complex offense per se, but he had to make a couple of reads and find the mismatch, and he had to do it pre-snap or on a quick drop. So the transition to the west coast offense the Jets will run won't be that drastic.

Concerns about him are legit, no doubt. IMO, he wasn't the best QB in the draft, I still like Manuel better as a prospect. But he's definitely worth taking a shot on in the 2nd round, especially considering they didn't use one of their top 2 picks to get him.

Even if the worst case scenario were to happen, and he shows absolutely nothing at all, the Jets can draft a 1st round QB next year. The reward definitely outweighs the risk.
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mikejets22


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raoul Duke wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:

The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.


True, but it was also an offense that required more than 1 read generally. It was a more complicated offense than, say, what Kaepernick or even Cam Newton ran. It wasn't a complex offense per se, but he had to make a couple of reads and find the mismatch, and he had to do it pre-snap or on a quick drop. So the transition to the west coast offense the Jets will run won't be that drastic.

Concerns about him are legit, no doubt. IMO, he wasn't the best QB in the draft, I still like Manuel better as a prospect. But he's definitely worth taking a shot on in the 2nd round, especially considering they didn't use one of their top 2 picks to get him.

Even if the worst case scenario were to happen, and he shows absolutely nothing at all, the Jets can draft a 1st round QB next year. The reward definitely outweighs the risk.


I agree with this. Like I said, I'm not hating him. I don't see him as a top 10 prospect, but I'm ok with him in the 2nd.

And Im not scouting his "stats" I'm watching his game and watching Austin turn a 5 yard pass into 40 and a TD. It's a legit concern - not saying he's doomed, just saying its a concern.
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KingOfTheHill84


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikejets22 wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:

The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.


True, but it was also an offense that required more than 1 read generally. It was a more complicated offense than, say, what Kaepernick or even Cam Newton ran. It wasn't a complex offense per se, but he had to make a couple of reads and find the mismatch, and he had to do it pre-snap or on a quick drop. So the transition to the west coast offense the Jets will run won't be that drastic.

Concerns about him are legit, no doubt. IMO, he wasn't the best QB in the draft, I still like Manuel better as a prospect. But he's definitely worth taking a shot on in the 2nd round, especially considering they didn't use one of their top 2 picks to get him.

Even if the worst case scenario were to happen, and he shows absolutely nothing at all, the Jets can draft a 1st round QB next year. The reward definitely outweighs the risk.


I agree with this. Like I said, I'm not hating him. I don't see him as a top 10 prospect, but I'm ok with him in the 2nd.

And Im not scouting his "stats" I'm watching his game and watching Austin turn a 5 yard pass into 40 and a TD. It's a legit concern - not saying he's doomed, just saying its a concern.


how is hitting Austin 5 yards in and him scoring a 40 yard TD a concern, if anything it shows he can hit his receivers accurately so they can make plays with the ball

he said himself "I'm a facilitator, my job is to get my guys the ball so they can make plays"
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:

The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.


True, but it was also an offense that required more than 1 read generally. It was a more complicated offense than, say, what Kaepernick or even Cam Newton ran. It wasn't a complex offense per se, but he had to make a couple of reads and find the mismatch, and he had to do it pre-snap or on a quick drop. So the transition to the west coast offense the Jets will run won't be that drastic.

Concerns about him are legit, no doubt. IMO, he wasn't the best QB in the draft, I still like Manuel better as a prospect. But he's definitely worth taking a shot on in the 2nd round, especially considering they didn't use one of their top 2 picks to get him.

Even if the worst case scenario were to happen, and he shows absolutely nothing at all, the Jets can draft a 1st round QB next year. The reward definitely outweighs the risk.


I agree with this. Like I said, I'm not hating him. I don't see him as a top 10 prospect, but I'm ok with him in the 2nd.

And Im not scouting his "stats" I'm watching his game and watching Austin turn a 5 yard pass into 40 and a TD. It's a legit concern - not saying he's doomed, just saying its a concern.


how is hitting Austin 5 yards in and him scoring a 40 yard TD a concern, if anything it shows he can hit his receivers accurately so they can make plays with the ball

he said himself "I'm a facilitator, my job is to get my guys the ball so they can make plays"



After all that talk last year about getting the ball out of the QB's hands quickly we should all be thrilled. We tried that and yet Sanchez still couldn't hit a quick out or come near completing 60% of his throws. Geno's accuracy alone should make us all very happy. No more missing open guys, Geno will give the WR's a chance to make a play. Now we just need to get a few guys who will.

I'm really happy about the selection (especially in the 2nd) cause we definitely upgraded the most important spot on the team. Even an average Geno is gonna better than Sanchez honestly based on accuracy alone. That doesn't even take into account all the other physical attributes Geno has that Sanchez can only dream of.

If he can stay focused mentally, work hard, and avoid the media distractions there's no doubt in my mind he's a major upgrade and a potential franchise QB. The talent is there and if the work ethic matches the talent we're all gonna be very happy.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this was posted yet but finally a well thought out article bashing the bashers. This is the guy I saw when listening to his interviews in college. I didn't see the "me guy" that everyone is making Geno out to be.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/22212243/critics-of-geno-smith-everywhere-but-none-of-them-believable#commentsAnchor
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mikejets22


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:
mikejets22 wrote:

The whole playmaker thing is mostly a comparison of YAC. Geno would get these guys the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and end up with 400 passing yards and 5 TDs. Or the famous "tap pass" which is basically a hand off that counts as passing yards.


True, but it was also an offense that required more than 1 read generally. It was a more complicated offense than, say, what Kaepernick or even Cam Newton ran. It wasn't a complex offense per se, but he had to make a couple of reads and find the mismatch, and he had to do it pre-snap or on a quick drop. So the transition to the west coast offense the Jets will run won't be that drastic.

Concerns about him are legit, no doubt. IMO, he wasn't the best QB in the draft, I still like Manuel better as a prospect. But he's definitely worth taking a shot on in the 2nd round, especially considering they didn't use one of their top 2 picks to get him.

Even if the worst case scenario were to happen, and he shows absolutely nothing at all, the Jets can draft a 1st round QB next year. The reward definitely outweighs the risk.


I agree with this. Like I said, I'm not hating him. I don't see him as a top 10 prospect, but I'm ok with him in the 2nd.

And Im not scouting his "stats" I'm watching his game and watching Austin turn a 5 yard pass into 40 and a TD. It's a legit concern - not saying he's doomed, just saying its a concern.


how is hitting Austin 5 yards in and him scoring a 40 yard TD a concern, if anything it shows he can hit his receivers accurately so they can make plays with the ball

he said himself "I'm a facilitator, my job is to get my guys the ball so they can make plays"


Right, every QB does that last line. It's a concern Bc he no longer has Austin and bailey and he's playing in the NFL. Like I said about 4 times now, I'm not against him, just not blown away by him. I get that you really like him, but to say that losing his playmakers and moving to the NFL doesn't concern you is foolish. Not saying he can't adjust I'm just not 100% sold on the guy.
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rampantjet


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see what you are saying in his Senior year tape, Dana Hogerson wanted the ball out of the QB's hands fast and give their playmakers a chance to make something happen in space.... People forget tho that his senior year was the only time he was in that offense.

Take a look at his Junior year tape, it is still not yourr prototypical pro style offense but there are none of those tap passes, and less bubble screens. Yet he pulled off very similar stats, to his senior year.

Take a look at his tape against LSU in 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvrXu9Fsvpk

First off he is under ungodly amounts of pressure this entire game. He is playing a defense that is as close to an NFL calibre defense that you are going to find anywhere. More than half of that D is in the NFL now, and a fair number of them were first rounders or even early first rounders.

He didn't get a ton of help from his playmakers(there is one touch pass to Austin that gets taken for 30 yards or so). His first pick bounces off Austins hands then helmet. There are a few blatant drops, and a few plays were his WR's are fading away from the ball allowing the DB to break up the pass. The Honeybadger strip fumble killed an entire drive as well.

His second INT is just a flat out amazing play by honeybadger, but Geno should take a bit of the blame on that one.

His TD pass to his TE is as NFL ready of a play as you are going to find out of a college QB, the pump fake then perfect placement to beat the coverage.

Overall this is viewed as a game where WVU struggled on the big stage, but other than Genos fumbled snap I think he stood up well under amazing pressure and against top flight DB's.
His deep pass over the middle to Austin at the end of the 3rd is spot on.
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gap between LSU's front 7 and WVU's OL in the game is also far far larger than the gap between any NFL DL-OL matchups.
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Raoul Duke


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But mikejets22 makes a legit point, and it's certainly a concern I had with him also. He can make nice quick reads and be accurate, but in the NFL you also have to be able to get through your progressions. He can read his keys for what he had to do in his offense, but to be a good QB in the NFL you also have to have the ability to just take a 5 or 7 step drop at times and push the ball downfield when the defense knows that's what you're trying to do.

For all of Geno's attributes, there's always a concern about how guys who play in that type of system will transfer to the NFL.

I'm optimistic because he does have a ton of ability and he's shown some of the things necessary to play in the NFL. But honestly I'd be a lot more apprehensive if they had taken him in round 1.
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rampantjet


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched a ton of video on this years QB class, and while i'll admit this wasn't the best class ever, I honestly thought Geno was the best at going through his progressions when he HAD to. Obviously on a bubble screen or a tap pass you never get that opportunity, but when they dropped him back he often got to his second or third option.... true story.
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