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Bookending our defensive line
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arKnaD7


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the franchise tag # for DEs? If Spielman thinks they will have excess cap room, that could always be a worst case scenario option.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arKnaD7 wrote:
What is the franchise tag # for DEs? If Spielman thinks they will have excess cap room, that could always be a worst case scenario option.

In the 12M range I think. We certainly have the cap room to accommodate it. Particularly if we shed some dead weight.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
arKnaD7 wrote:
What is the franchise tag # for DEs? If Spielman thinks they will have excess cap room, that could always be a worst case scenario option.

In the 12M range I think. We certainly have the cap room to accommodate it. Particularly if we shed some dead weight.


The franchise tag really wouldnt be a bad option. Sure, $12M would be a lot of money for one year, but it gives the team a wait and see approach, without risk of losing him. Griffen benefits for two reasons 1) Massive pay day in 2014 and a 2) breakout season means he will get a huge contract the next year.

The Vikings could get cap relief by dumping Chad Greenway and Letroy Guion, in addition to Carlson retiring/released.
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Longest Lurker


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
arKnaD7 wrote:
What is the franchise tag # for DEs? If Spielman thinks they will have excess cap room, that could always be a worst case scenario option.

In the 12M range I think. We certainly have the cap room to accommodate it. Particularly if we shed some dead weight.


The franchise tag really wouldnt be a bad option. Sure, $12M would be a lot of money for one year, but it gives the team a wait and see approach, without risk of losing him. Griffen benefits for two reasons 1) Massive pay day in 2014 and a 2) breakout season means he will get a huge contract the next year.

The Vikings could get cap relief by dumping Chad Greenway and Letroy Guion, in addition to Carlson retiring/released.


I didn't think of the franchise tag, but that might be a way to go if we can't do a new deal with him that works for both parties. I would still like him to get a new contract then have to show the rest of the world his value and then have to pay more later (provided he has a great year).

His value to us may be different to his value to other teams. If we devalue him, then another GM could come in and pull a card out of Spielman's playbook and overpay him and we lose him.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Johnson is coming off the franchise tag this season. What were his numbers like prior to being franchised? I don't remember them being spectacular.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Michael Johnson is coming off the franchise tag this season. What were his numbers like prior to being franchised? I don't remember them being spectacular.


In 2012, Johnson had 11.5 sacks in 15 starts.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I have a poor memory Laughing
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Gordon Bombay


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the rules for tag and trade? Could we tag Jared Allen at a 2nd or 3rd round tender and trade him away?
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The Gnat


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon Bombay wrote:
What are the rules for tag and trade? Could we tag Jared Allen at a 2nd or 3rd round tender and trade him away?


Our only option to tag him is with the franchise tag.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon Bombay wrote:
What are the rules for tag and trade? Could we tag Jared Allen at a 2nd or 3rd round tender and trade him away?

Tag and trades are an extreme rarity in the NFL.

That multiplies with a 30+ year old defensive end.
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Robbroy45


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Gordon Bombay wrote:
What are the rules for tag and trade? Could we tag Jared Allen at a 2nd or 3rd round tender and trade him away?

Tag and trades are an extreme rarity in the NFL.

That multiplies with a 30+ year old defensive end.


Doesn't the tagged player need to sign the tender before being dealt, too? I could be wrong, and obviously the team acquiring him could work out a new deal, but I don't think a team would want to commit $12M+ to a 30 year old declining DE
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ArcticNorseman


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised to see that 4 of the top 5 paid defensive players in 2013 were DEs. Of those, Michael Johnson was the only franchise tagged player so he was 2nd behind Jared in terms of salary.

If one looks at the Top 20 paid DEs, most are difference makers on their teams. Do I think Jared Allen is still fully capable of being a difference maker? Yes. However, considering value, let's say he would play for salary on par with Julius Peppers, Mario Williams or JJ Watt . . . he'd get paid about $7.5 - 8.5 million per year -- is that still too much for 10-14 sacks a year?

Would Everson Griffen accept less, yet produce more? Maybe, but he has proven a very versatile team player, and give his production versus the number of snaps played, he's pretty solid. What happens if/when he takes over full scope of Jared's workload?

In the end, I think the Vikes know they have to pony up some salary to keep an impact DE in-house . . . question is, will it be the younger, faster guy or the face of your franchise's defense?
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Longest Lurker


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcticNorseman wrote:
question is, will it be the younger, faster guy or the face of your franchise's defense?


Younger/faster recipe worked for Seattle's defense. I love JA, but Seattle put other GMs on notice that physical, smart, young, fast, and hungry is the way to go. Some of that is coaching, and some not.

I am not into the "face of the franchise" bit for the most part. Everyone is expendable in a sense. It's a case by case basis for every team for sure, but I would say the only player that isn't expendable is AP, but even than you could make an argument otherwise.

If you have good developmental path for your players you will see some players play well beyond their years in terms of maturity, leadership and swagger/moxie (eg Seattles D and QB). Get a great developmental path for your young players and rely less on sheer talent alone (eg trusting in using high draft picks alone).

Great coaching can in a lot of ways make of for a loss of talent, but usually you don't see players play beyond what they are being coached.
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