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persiandud


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 936
Location: Davis, CA
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Safety Reply with quote

We all miss Nick Collins.

To get back to the Super Bowl, I believe we need better safety play. I'm not convinced Jennings can do it, at all. I'm hoping McMillan takes a big step forward and consolidates that spot next to Burnett. It seems like Thompson has faith in Jennings and McMillan, as he passed on taking a safety in this year's draft (which was surprising because safety was decently deep this year).

Who on this forum wouldn't mind bringing in a veteran safety? I know this is FA we're talking about, and it's not Thompson's forte, but we've gone some money left over and I've been thinking about Kerry Rhodes. He graded out as one of the best coverage safeties last year per Pro Football Focus. I'd love to nab him cheap on a short deal (he's 31), get some competition going in TC at that position. I'd feel much better about Rhodes back there in the playoffs.

What do you guys think?
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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 1742
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've talked about this before in the FA discussion thread, and personally, I'd be open to it, even if this means sacrificing that 3rd/4th round comp pick for Jennings next year. He's still got a few solid years left, not to mention he was and is far and away the best cover safety in FA this year.
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Kal-El


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Milwaukee, WI. Team: Packers.
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to have heard that Kerry Rhodes is a bit of a pre-madonna ('been a while) and that coaches in both NY and ARZ got sick him after some time.

Also, there are strong rumors about him being gay. Without touching that topic on a political or moral level (against forum rules), there are clear football implications for that. It can be an issue in the locker room, and the media attention would no doubt create a distraction.

So yeah, Rhodes is still good, it would be a good addition on paper, but there are some red-flags with him that could explain both why he was cut and not being signed.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 3298
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are lots of solid vets who are currently unemployed. Eventually they will have to start looking for a deal just to get in a camp.

No need to sign anybody until we get to that point.

Plus, it's not like the major problem we haven't had with the defensive backend to this point is that guys don't know the scheme and have communication breakdowns. You don't necessarily make that better by bringing in someone from outside the organization.

I would not risk the Jennings comp pick to sign a FA, but would be willing to sacrifice the Walden one (which looks to be a 5 or a 6).
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 12476
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I'd just rather let McMillian play. Rhodes isn't a guy that would fit in our locker room from everything I've heard about the guy(going off what Jet fans have said). If we're in TC and its evident that we need an upgrade, pick up a vet then.
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persiandud


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 936
Location: Davis, CA
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal-El wrote:
I seem to have heard that Kerry Rhodes is a bit of a pre-madonna ('been a while) and that coaches in both NY and ARZ got sick him after some time.

Also, there are strong rumors about him being gay. Without touching that topic on a political or moral level (against forum rules), there are clear football implications for that. It can be an issue in the locker room, and the media attention would no doubt create a distraction.

So yeah, Rhodes is still good, it would be a good addition on paper, but there are some red-flags with him that could explain both why he was cut and not being signed.


This is why we stay away from him? Please. I think he'd be fine in our locker room. That's a non-issue. Maybe it would be an issue in the Niners locker room.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel this Packers team has one very good safety(Burnett) and one very nice looking prospect(McMillian). The issue is that Capers often plays with three of them on the field and Jennings is "just a guy" in every way. Jennings did play a good bit better than I felt he would last year. But that has far more to do with the fact that I had set the bar so low for him. I think I would let it play out a little longer. But there is a good chance an upgrade will be needed at some point IMO. My hope is that Jennings lived in the weight room this off-season and the game will slow down a great deal for McMillian going into year two.

Good chance they will go into this thing this year with this group if they don't pull in a vet in the very near future. This Capers fit is hell to learn at the safety position and there is true value in the fact the guys in this room have been here and done it. Going to be hard for any FA to beat them out if ya ask me.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 202
Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark me down for McMillian. When you look at all the parts, you can see the making of a great little engine. You gotta consider that Maine isn't even on the radar as a football school, in fact Jerron is only the second player they ever had drafted, the other guy was back in the 1960's which even I am not old enough to remember.

The deal with Jerron is that he really had no way to prepare for the NFL. He was likely the best athlete on every team that he had ever played on and he didn't play with anyone that had NFL talent. I think he was a kid that liked football as a teenager and then when his body filled out, he became a guy with a talent that he found out could be parlayed into continuing.

I see a guy that was lost a bit from time to time, but he did rally up almost 600 snaps last year. My optimism says that the game will slow down the Palmy mentioned and he settles in. He has ALL of the tools and he'll be one heck of a player if he puts it all together.


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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!


I added a few thoughts, but my take on it is that Burnett can play centerfield and let McMillian play in the box. Burnett is good in coverage and he has good ball skills, he just doesn't play hardnose enough in the middle of the field, but McMillian does. I think all they have to do is swap out the expectations and we have our pair.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!


I added a few thoughts, but my take on it is that Burnett can play centerfield and let McMillian play in the box. Burnett is good in coverage and he has good ball skills, he just doesn't play hardnose enough in the middle of the field, but McMillian does. I think all they have to do is swap out the expectations and we have our pair.


Again, not the issue. I do feel they have a "pair" they can hang their hat on moving ahead. One needs to understand this Capers defense though. Man plays with three of them out there OFTEN. Only way you can pair those three and make it work is to do so as they did last year.

The further McMillian gets down field the less I like him and the closer Jennings gets to the snap point the less I like him. This has also played hell on Burnett's game. That fit is tough enough when your not flipping around pending those on the field like Burnett often did last year.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!


I added a few thoughts, but my take on it is that Burnett can play centerfield and let McMillian play in the box. Burnett is good in coverage and he has good ball skills, he just doesn't play hardnose enough in the middle of the field, but McMillian does. I think all they have to do is swap out the expectations and we have our pair.


Again, not the issue. I do feel they have a "pair" they can hang their hat on moving ahead. One needs to understand this Capers defense though. Man plays with three of them out there OFTEN. Only way you can pair those three and make it work is to do so as they did last year.

The further McMillian gets down field the less I like him and the closer Jennings gets to the snap point the less I like him. This has also played hell on Burnett's game. That fit is tough enough when your not flipping around pending those on the field like Burnett often did last year.


If that's the case, you aren't looking at the "base" package anymore. You are looking at a guy like Hyde coming in and being that third, or you are asking House or Hayward to play that role. If it really comes down to a "center fielder" type, assuming all other things are constant, then you hope Tramon and Hayward are good in coverage and you put Shields back there, as he is by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield and he has the speed to make up for his "misses" when it comes to reading the deep routes. We have four guys that can run with almost anyone and Shields can truly run with anyone, so if we need a player like that, we have him. Otherwise, it's just a matter of that base pair of safeties and moving Sam over per situation.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!


I added a few thoughts, but my take on it is that Burnett can play centerfield and let McMillian play in the box. Burnett is good in coverage and he has good ball skills, he just doesn't play hardnose enough in the middle of the field, but McMillian does. I think all they have to do is swap out the expectations and we have our pair.


Again, not the issue. I do feel they have a "pair" they can hang their hat on moving ahead. One needs to understand this Capers defense though. Man plays with three of them out there OFTEN. Only way you can pair those three and make it work is to do so as they did last year.

The further McMillian gets down field the less I like him and the closer Jennings gets to the snap point the less I like him. This has also played hell on Burnett's game. That fit is tough enough when your not flipping around pending those on the field like Burnett often did last year.


If that's the case, you aren't looking at the "base" package anymore. You are looking at a guy like Hyde coming in and being that third, or you are asking House or Hayward to play that role. If it really comes down to a "center fielder" type, assuming all other things are constant, then you hope Tramon and Hayward are good in coverage and you put Shields back there, as he is by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield and he has the speed to make up for his "misses" when it comes to reading the deep routes.


Few things with that one:

1) I hope one understands how little Capers plays base D.
2) The idea of Hyde coming in and being that safety this year scares the hell out of me.
3) No way do I take Shield away from his man skills to play the deep half.
4) Shields is anything but "by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield". Not many flaws in his game and he is not weak there either. But one could make a strong case that that's the weakest link in his game. Again, not a issue. But a guy like Hayward is FAR more instinctual than Shields is.
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Nick_gb


Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!


I added a few thoughts, but my take on it is that Burnett can play centerfield and let McMillian play in the box. Burnett is good in coverage and he has good ball skills, he just doesn't play hardnose enough in the middle of the field, but McMillian does. I think all they have to do is swap out the expectations and we have our pair.


Again, not the issue. I do feel they have a "pair" they can hang their hat on moving ahead. One needs to understand this Capers defense though. Man plays with three of them out there OFTEN. Only way you can pair those three and make it work is to do so as they did last year.

The further McMillian gets down field the less I like him and the closer Jennings gets to the snap point the less I like him. This has also played hell on Burnett's game. That fit is tough enough when your not flipping around pending those on the field like Burnett often did last year.


If that's the case, you aren't looking at the "base" package anymore. You are looking at a guy like Hyde coming in and being that third, or you are asking House or Hayward to play that role. If it really comes down to a "center fielder" type, assuming all other things are constant, then you hope Tramon and Hayward are good in coverage and you put Shields back there, as he is by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield and he has the speed to make up for his "misses" when it comes to reading the deep routes.


Few things with that one:

1) I hope one understands how little Capers plays base D.
2) The idea of Hyde coming in and being that safety this year scares the hell out of me.
3) No way do I take Shield away from his man skills to play the deep half.
4) Shields is anything but "by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield". Not many flaws in his game and he is not weak there either. But one could make a strong case that that's the weakest link in his game. Again, not a issue. But a guy like Hayward is FAR more instinctual than Shields is.


When Hayward was coming out into the NFL and the Packers drafted him I automatically assumed it was to be a Safety. I think he has that skill set. I mentioned it on another set of forums this year as a potential S candidate but everyone laughed and said you don't fix what's not broken. I still am pounding the table for Hayward @ the Safety position. I think he would make a HUGE impact.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 202
Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
Mark me down for McMillian.


I look for a very nice year from McMillian also. Not the issue here though IMO. The issue is the guy playing the deep half as it stands today, Jennings. I just don't feel great about our last line of defense being our least talented starter!


I added a few thoughts, but my take on it is that Burnett can play centerfield and let McMillian play in the box. Burnett is good in coverage and he has good ball skills, he just doesn't play hardnose enough in the middle of the field, but McMillian does. I think all they have to do is swap out the expectations and we have our pair.


Again, not the issue. I do feel they have a "pair" they can hang their hat on moving ahead. One needs to understand this Capers defense though. Man plays with three of them out there OFTEN. Only way you can pair those three and make it work is to do so as they did last year.

The further McMillian gets down field the less I like him and the closer Jennings gets to the snap point the less I like him. This has also played hell on Burnett's game. That fit is tough enough when your not flipping around pending those on the field like Burnett often did last year.


If that's the case, you aren't looking at the "base" package anymore. You are looking at a guy like Hyde coming in and being that third, or you are asking House or Hayward to play that role. If it really comes down to a "center fielder" type, assuming all other things are constant, then you hope Tramon and Hayward are good in coverage and you put Shields back there, as he is by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield and he has the speed to make up for his "misses" when it comes to reading the deep routes.


Few things with that one:

1) I hope one understands how little Capers plays base D.
2) The idea of Hyde coming in and being that safety this year scares the hell out of me.
3) No way do I take Shield away from his man skills to play the deep half.
4) Shields is anything but "by far the most instinctual player we have in the defensive backfield". Not many flaws in his game and he is not weak there either. But one could make a strong case that that's the weakest link in his game. Again, not a issue. But a guy like Hayward is FAR more instinctual than Shields is.


I do understand how little Capers plays the base D.

That said, I disagree about Shields. He is playing almost entirely on instinct. I don't know if you knew this, but the dude ran the 25th fastest time ever in the 40(I am sure you knew that, I know what you do for a living) and he is now the fastest guy in the entire NFL(Austin is .01 of a second faster, but he hasn't played a down yet). His entire deal is the fact that he can run next to anyone and then move on the ball, it's entirely instinct. If he was slower, he would have never have made it this far.

My point is that we have a mix of guys that can cover, bring the lumber and orchestrate in the middle of the field. If Hyde isn't ready or he sucks we have four guys that can play corner in the NFL and if it came down to letting Tramon earn his money and Hayward play on the other side and then let Shields sit back and play centerfield because Burnett and McMillian couldn't get the job done, well that would work just fine. Or stick Shields back out on the edge and let Hayward do it. There is no shortage of talent, just a need to place the talent where it needs to go. The bottom line is that we have our guys.
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