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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4210
Location: PA
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
HandsomeBob29 wrote:
I feel like TE is our major weakness. While the DL is definitely consideration, that is mainly due to a lack of depth. LBs arnt too bad with the good play of David and Foster and I've heard positive things about Casillas.

But TE I feel is definitely the weakness. In the NFL today, TE can just break open defenses with the versatility they bring on offense. We were ok at the position last year with having a vet like Clark. But with Stocker now as our one and really nobody else there, thats not good news. Stocker is depth at best and I can live with him as a two but I hate him as a starter.

But the front office believes in him so we have to live with it. But TE isnt gonna be a major difference on this team. With how the defense looks now, everything thing is on Freeman's shoulders. He has every tool to succeed and get us back into contention.


We really don't use our TEs though. We use our FB far more often instead. TE just isn't a big part of our offense.

This draft had a ton of talented TEs come out, if it were a need I think we would have went after one of them at least.


How is TE not used a lot? There is a TE on the field for about 90% of plays, and sometimes 2 TE sets. Just because we don't have one that can put up stats and get open enough to be noticed doesn't mean we couldn't use one. The TE does block too....


We have plenty of TEs who can block.

And we don't use the TE often enough as a receiver to need someone more than Luke Stocker who looked pretty good in his last game. I know I know, it was one game. But he's capable of being out there and he's enough for what the offense calls for.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5567
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
HandsomeBob29 wrote:
I feel like TE is our major weakness. While the DL is definitely consideration, that is mainly due to a lack of depth. LBs arnt too bad with the good play of David and Foster and I've heard positive things about Casillas.

But TE I feel is definitely the weakness. In the NFL today, TE can just break open defenses with the versatility they bring on offense. We were ok at the position last year with having a vet like Clark. But with Stocker now as our one and really nobody else there, thats not good news. Stocker is depth at best and I can live with him as a two but I hate him as a starter.

But the front office believes in him so we have to live with it. But TE isnt gonna be a major difference on this team. With how the defense looks now, everything thing is on Freeman's shoulders. He has every tool to succeed and get us back into contention.


We really don't use our TEs though. We use our FB far more often instead. TE just isn't a big part of our offense.

This draft had a ton of talented TEs come out, if it were a need I think we would have went after one of them at least.


How is TE not used a lot? There is a TE on the field for about 90% of plays, and sometimes 2 TE sets. Just because we don't have one that can put up stats and get open enough to be noticed doesn't mean we couldn't use one. The TE does block too....


We have plenty of TEs who can block.

And we don't use the TE often enough as a receiver to need someone more than Luke Stocker who looked pretty good in his last game. I know I know, it was one game. But he's capable of being out there and he's enough for what the offense calls for.


If we had one that could be a receiver, then we would use him more often as that
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3798
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
HandsomeBob29 wrote:
I feel like TE is our major weakness. While the DL is definitely consideration, that is mainly due to a lack of depth. LBs arnt too bad with the good play of David and Foster and I've heard positive things about Casillas.

But TE I feel is definitely the weakness. In the NFL today, TE can just break open defenses with the versatility they bring on offense. We were ok at the position last year with having a vet like Clark. But with Stocker now as our one and really nobody else there, thats not good news. Stocker is depth at best and I can live with him as a two but I hate him as a starter.

But the front office believes in him so we have to live with it. But TE isnt gonna be a major difference on this team. With how the defense looks now, everything thing is on Freeman's shoulders. He has every tool to succeed and get us back into contention.


We really don't use our TEs though. We use our FB far more often instead. TE just isn't a big part of our offense.

This draft had a ton of talented TEs come out, if it were a need I think we would have went after one of them at least.


How is TE not used a lot? There is a TE on the field for about 90% of plays, and sometimes 2 TE sets. Just because we don't have one that can put up stats and get open enough to be noticed doesn't mean we couldn't use one. The TE does block too....


We have plenty of TEs who can block.

And we don't use the TE often enough as a receiver to need someone more than Luke Stocker who looked pretty good in his last game. I know I know, it was one game. But he's capable of being out there and he's enough for what the offense calls for.


If we had one that could be a receiver, then we would use him more often as that


I would go back and watch Sullivan as the Giant's OC and will see that's not the case. The TE's are really used in that aspect and it seemed to work for them there as well. I just believe Schiano and Sullivan both prefer the traditional offense where the TE is a blocker first and a blocker second with the ability to catch the ball as a last resort.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1856
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say we could use a better play-maker at the #3 WR spot. Steve Smith, Underwood, and Olgetree all spell meh to me. Smith hasn't been the same since injury, Underwood has terrible hands, and Olgetree can't grap a playbook. To be honest, I would have probably liked to have Benn back. Benn had more upside than any of those guys and the size/speed ratio to play the slot. Not that big of an upgrade from Olgetree from Benn.

Other then that I don't really see a huge hole on this roster. Depth could be better at RT. We got someone to spell McCoy in Landri, we have a NT to back-up Akeem Spence, and we drafted 2 DE's to be apart of the rotation.

The team is pretty much set, they just gotta go out there and play consistent football and stay healthy.
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Pvsports9


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 1062
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick little TE recap to settle things

These are the stats from the primary giant TE's since 08- using rec, targets, avg, tds and first downs...they're not putting up gigantic numbers but they are certainly utilized more than they're being credited...we just don't have anyone good enough to do it


2008 -33 55 384 11.6 6 21
2009 -42 69 567 13.5 5 26
2010 -35 69 531 15.2 5 22
2011 -38 60 604 15.9 4 31
2012 -55 90 626 11.4 5 35

now these are just stats from the primary...from two tight ends it's obviously more

Dallas Clark last year:

2012 -47 76 435 9.3 4 23

while we aren't going to have a 100 reception TE- this WAS good for fourth most on our team behind vjax, mike williams and doug

so...we don't use our TE's...but he has more receptions than our #3-6 wide receivers put together? That either tells me that our slot situation is far worse than you guys are making it out to be (Truth) or...we use our TE more than you think (True)...or both (True)
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 13689
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke Stocker sucks, not sure why people think he's good. He's had 2 half-decent games in what, 3 years? He's average depth at best, probably not even that.

Crabtree will probably end up being our #1.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 8762
Location: El ramster on the sig
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
Luke Stocker sucks, not sure why people think he's good. He's had 2 half-decent games in what, 3 years? He's average depth at best, probably not even that.

Crabtree will end up being our #1.


FIFY Very Happy

I think Crabs will be the man!
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4210
Location: PA
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pvsports9 wrote:
Just a quick little TE recap to settle things

These are the stats from the primary giant TE's since 08- using rec, targets, avg, tds and first downs...they're not putting up gigantic numbers but they are certainly utilized more than they're being credited...we just don't have anyone good enough to do it


2008 -33 55 384 11.6 6 21
2009 -42 69 567 13.5 5 26
2010 -35 69 531 15.2 5 22
2011 -38 60 604 15.9 4 31
2012 -55 90 626 11.4 5 35

now these are just stats from the primary...from two tight ends it's obviously more

Dallas Clark last year:

2012 -47 76 435 9.3 4 23

while we aren't going to have a 100 reception TE- this WAS good for fourth most on our team behind vjax, mike williams and doug

so...we don't use our TE's...but he has more receptions than our #3-6 wide receivers put together? That either tells me that our slot situation is far worse than you guys are making it out to be (Truth) or...we use our TE more than you think (True)...or both (True)


It really hurts your point that this super productive and important tight end we had in Dallas Clark didn't even get resigned.

I think it says a lot more about the slot WR where we brought in 2 guys to compete than the TE where we signed a blocking tight end.

deuces22wild wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
Luke Stocker sucks, not sure why people think he's good. He's had 2 half-decent games in what, 3 years? He's average depth at best, probably not even that.

Crabtree will end up being our #1.


FIFY Very Happy

I think Crabs will be the man!


So we judge players after 2 years in the league now, I guess.

Stocker got injured during his rookie off season and was behind K2 and Dallas Clark, who weren't exactly in their primes but weren't chumps (on the field) either. He played a lot during the last game of the year and looked good.

Plus he has more production last year than Crabtree did, so I'm not sure I see the reasoning behind crowning Crabtree the best TE on the roster at this point. We don't know much about either guy.

Lastly the point stands that if this position were so important and weak we would have addressed it with more than a guy with 5 catches who is known as a blocker.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7735
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked stocker coming out. When he got his chance he played solid with more playing time. He could be a solid valve over the middle.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 13689
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:

So we judge players after 2 years in the league now, I guess.

Stocker got injured during his rookie off season and was behind K2 and Dallas Clark, who weren't exactly in their primes but weren't chumps (on the field) either. He played a lot during the last game of the year and looked good.

Plus he has more production last year than Crabtree did, so I'm not sure I see the reasoning behind crowning Crabtree the best TE on the roster at this point. We don't know much about either guy.

Lastly the point stands that if this position were so important and weak we would have addressed it with more than a guy with 5 catches who is known as a blocker.


....Uhhh yes, 2 years of absolutely nothing from the guy is enough to judge him. He's a former 4th round pick who has done nothing in the league, why do people actually expect anything out of this guy? It's mind boggling. Last year we need a tight end, and instead of giving him the chance to play, we sign an 80 year old Dallas Clarke. That's not an excuse FOR Stocker, that's embarassing.

Stocker was never that good in college (best year he had 39 catches), and his best ever game in the NFL was what, 3 catches? I honestly don't get why people think this guy will suddenly transform into a good tight end. He's not Jason Witten, I don't care what school he went to.

I hope he surprises me, but this seems like a fanbase hyping up a young player because they WANT him to do well. He's decent depth, I expect another subpar season from him and probably more excuses and reasons why he'll breakout next year.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
RoeKG wrote:

So we judge players after 2 years in the league now, I guess.

Stocker got injured during his rookie off season and was behind K2 and Dallas Clark, who weren't exactly in their primes but weren't chumps (on the field) either. He played a lot during the last game of the year and looked good.

Plus he has more production last year than Crabtree did, so I'm not sure I see the reasoning behind crowning Crabtree the best TE on the roster at this point. We don't know much about either guy.

Lastly the point stands that if this position were so important and weak we would have addressed it with more than a guy with 5 catches who is known as a blocker.


....Uhhh yes, 2 years of absolutely nothing from the guy is enough to judge him. He's a former 4th round pick who has done nothing in the league, why do people actually expect anything out of this guy? It's mind boggling. Last year we need a tight end, and instead of giving him the chance to play, we sign an 80 year old Dallas Clarke. That's not an excuse FOR Stocker, that's embarassing.

Stocker was never that good in college (best year he had 39 catches), and his best ever game in the NFL was what, 3 catches? I honestly don't get why people think this guy will suddenly transform into a good tight end. He's not Jason Witten, I don't care what school he went to.

I hope he surprises me, but this seems like a fanbase hyping up a young player because they WANT him to do well. He's decent depth, I expect another subpar season from him and probably more excuses and reasons why he'll breakout next year.


If this is how you feel about Stocker then your answer should probably be defensive end as the biggest weakness since they are all pretty much in the same boat.

He's had 2 years in the league. With 2 coaches and not a lot of playing time. He's looked both good and bad. And no one is saying he is going to be Jason Witten. I'm saying he is decent enough to fill our TE role. I don't see how signing a vet over starting a 2nd year player with 1 offseason under his belt even says anything about that player, either. You said it yourself, he was a 4th rounder. Is he supposed to develop immediately and contribute? Because based on your overly harsh judgement of the guy, apparently he should have been starting from day 1 instead of taking a normal amount of time to develop.

Also come on, who even cares about college production.

Edit: anyway, Jason Witten also had 39 catches in his best college season. Also from Tennessee.
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klopp24


Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 464
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
Luke Stocker sucks, not sure why people think he's good. He's had 2 half-decent games in what, 3 years? He's average depth at best, probably not even that.

Crabtree will end up being our #1.


FIFY Very Happy

I think Crabs will be the man!



Man I'm from Wisco so I've watched plenty of packer games. (2nd favorite team) and Crabs ain't bad at all. He is better then Stocker, plus crabs just has that bad attitude that I love. Look at the fake field goal last year he took to the house lol
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:

If this is how you feel about Stocker then your answer should probably be defensive end as the biggest weakness since they are all pretty much in the same boat.

He's had 2 years in the league. With 2 coaches and not a lot of playing time. He's looked both good and bad. And no one is saying he is going to be Jason Witten. I'm saying he is decent enough to fill our TE role. I don't see how signing a vet over starting a 2nd year player with 1 offseason under his belt even says anything about that player, either. You said it yourself, he was a 4th rounder. Is he supposed to develop immediately and contribute? Because based on your overly harsh judgement of the guy, apparently he should have been starting from day 1 instead of taking a normal amount of time to develop.

Also come on, who even cares about college production.

Edit: anyway, Jason Witten also had 39 catches in his best college season. Also from Tennessee.


Not the same as defensive end. While we are still thin there, Bowers and Clayborn have shown on the field that they can be effective players. Their ability is clear.

The college production thing was just a sidenote. Witten flashed great ability in college, and not surprisingly, had a pretty good rookie season followed up by an amazing sophomore season. Stats aside, from just watching Stocker, he has not shown much outstanding ability. Can he be our guy? Sure, if all we ask out of our tight ends is a couple of catches for 20 yards a game, but he is no way a threat to the other team. You can stick a linebacker on Stocker and he's covered for basically the whole game...nothing he has done indicates otherwise.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lack of faith in Freeman is hilarious. Dont worry boys, I'll be here holding the bandwagon door open for y'all to hop back on when we go to the playoffs.

DRD said it right, we lack depth. Still I think we'll be fine to go to the playoffs.

If we can sign a Freeney or Abraham then we are serious about making a superbowl run.

We do need a TE, I think ASJ will be there in the 20's when we pick next year Wink
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7735
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucstopshere wrote:
The lack of faith in Freeman is hilarious. Dont worry boys, I'll be here holding the bandwagon door open for y'all to hop back on when we go to the playoffs.

DRD said it right, we lack depth. Still I think we'll be fine to go to the playoffs.

If we can sign a Freeney or Abraham then we are serious about making a superbowl run.

We do need a TE, I think ASJ will be there in the 20's when we pick next year Wink


Name one game against a quality contender that freeman elevated his game to win the ball game?

That is why there's enough criticism and question marks. He played good in 5-6 games. And was bad and struggled in the rest.
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