Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Our Secondary
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Phire


Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 48332
Location: #championchip #2012BirdsHoF #2012GoldStnd #YAKtoseIntolerant #Merica #TrollyRangers #Danes #BirdGang
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will be better because we scrapped Washburn and our defensive staff will actually work together.
_________________

theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.

Danish proverb 3:69
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdman0069


Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6270
Location: Key West, FL
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phillips is far from an elite talent even when healthy. He's a good player. No Pro Bowls, no All Pro's under his belt. When he came out people were surprised because it was thought there was no 1st round Safty talent that year. It was viewed, at the time, as a slight reach. He only has 36 starts in his career and you can't look at the player without putting a huge question mark next to his name because of the injury history. I assume he will see the field, but no one really has any kind of idea what kind of player he will be physically or mentally due to his history.

Chung is even more of a question mark. Injury history plus. Even when the guy was healthy he was hot and cold.

Cary is soft and isn't very good against the run. A lot like a guy we just let walk away. The difference is, Cary doesn't have the upside of a DRC.

Fletcher is a complete unknown. He has the least amount of starts of all these guys, (26 I believe). He is coming of an injury and couple that with the fact that before his injuries, he committed more penalties then any other player in the league at his position. That doesn't scream elite talent IMO.

Like this Defense, this Secondary is a complete work in progress. It wouldn't surprise any true fan to see all of these guys playing someplace else two years from now. The Front office new they were going to have a rough time after last season and it seems to me they rolled the dice on everyone of these guys. It was a calculated risk and they haven't lost anything if none of these guys work out.
_________________

Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.

Birdman, slowest to 10K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
baconrad3


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 7668
Location: Tempe, AZ
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayAp07 wrote:
nlesthought wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
JayAp07 wrote:
Mediocre at best. Kenny Phillips could very well be the next Marlin Jackson and never play a down for us. Chung was benched in NE and could prove no better than Coleman or Allen. Williams and Fletcher could be decent for us but neither is a #1 corner.


Did you really just compare Kenny Phillips to Marlin Jackson?



I see KP and Fletcher being the two successful signings in the secondary from this offseason. Williams might be a decent starter but will likely not stick here...and I see Wolff beating out Chung.


The comparison wasn't based on skill but ability to get on the field. Phillips has missed about two seasons worth of games. Bad knees.

If they stay healthy I think the depth would be greatly improved no matter who makes the 53. I'm more concerned how they'll be used new scheme players getting to know each other it'll take time. Good thing Chip gets extra OTAs


Exactly. Phillips has a bad injury history. Marlin Jackson came here "100% healthy" and could never get on the field. Out of all the additions, Phillips worries me for this very reason. It's not like he broke his arm one year and then broke his leg the next, the guy has knee problems dating all the way back to his college days when he tore his ACL. Knee and back problems often derail and end careers because they never seem to go away. Kenny's history has proven that it is a very serious, reoccurring problem for him.



KP's initial knee surgery he had back in 2009 was 100% successful and he recovered very well from it...turning into one of the best safeties in the league in 2010 and 2011. He has missed 2 full seasons, which is alarming definitely...but last year's injury apparently isn't incredibly concerning...he missed 9 games.

Marlin Jackson was a different situation. He hadn't played more than 4 games in a season in over 2 years when coming to us, and had only played 16 games once in his career...whereas KP has played in every game 3/5 years.


Plus this is a different time. If you haven't noticed, there are so many players coming back from these injuries that only a few years ago used to end careers. We've made such breakthroughs in medical science, especially with sports medicine.
_________________


#OfficialBlakeBortlesHypeTrain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
baconrad3


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 7668
Location: Tempe, AZ
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
Phillips is far from an elite talent even when healthy. He's a good player. No Pro Bowls, no All Pro's under his belt. When he came out people were surprised because it was thought there was no 1st round Safty talent that year. It was viewed, at the time, as a slight reach. He only has 36 starts in his career and you can't look at the player without putting a huge question mark next to his name because of the injury history. I assume he will see the field, but no one really has any kind of idea what kind of player he will be physically or mentally due to his history.

Chung is even more of a question mark. Injury history plus. Even when the guy was healthy he was hot and cold.

Cary is soft and isn't very good against the run. A lot like a guy we just let walk away. The difference is, Cary doesn't have the upside of a DRC.

Fletcher is a complete unknown. He has the least amount of starts of all these guys, (26 I believe). He is coming of an injury and couple that with the fact that before his injuries, he committed more penalties then any other player in the league at his position. That doesn't scream elite talent IMO.

Like this Defense, this Secondary is a complete work in progress. It wouldn't surprise any true fan to see all of these guys playing someplace else two years from now. The Front office new they were going to have a rough time after last season and it seems to me they rolled the dice on everyone of these guys. It was a calculated risk and they haven't lost anything if none of these guys work out.



This statement is why I know you don't know what you're talking about.
_________________


#OfficialBlakeBortlesHypeTrain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dr. Philly


Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 42499
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue with Cary is that he can't actually cover. Dude gets burnt easy.
_________________


simonwayne wrote:
LeBron has done for the NBA what Teen Mom has done for teenage pregnancies


#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Th@Bird$


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 170
Location: PA
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Cary Williams frame may seem identical to DRC, he's 100x tougher. The guy is a fighter and willing to get physical unlike either of our corners last season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdman0069


Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6270
Location: Key West, FL
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Phillips is far from an elite talent even when healthy. He's a good player. No Pro Bowls, no All Pro's under his belt. When he came out people were surprised because it was thought there was no 1st round Safty talent that year. It was viewed, at the time, as a slight reach. He only has 36 starts in his career and you can't look at the player without putting a huge question mark next to his name because of the injury history. I assume he will see the field, but no one really has any kind of idea what kind of player he will be physically or mentally due to his history.

Chung is even more of a question mark. Injury history plus. Even when the guy was healthy he was hot and cold.

Cary is soft and isn't very good against the run. A lot like a guy we just let walk away. The difference is, Cary doesn't have the upside of a DRC.

Fletcher is a complete unknown. He has the least amount of starts of all these guys, (26 I believe). He is coming of an injury and couple that with the fact that before his injuries, he committed more penalties then any other player in the league at his position. That doesn't scream elite talent IMO.

Like this Defense, this Secondary is a complete work in progress. It wouldn't surprise any true fan to see all of these guys playing someplace else two years from now. The Front office new they were going to have a rough time after last season and it seems to me they rolled the dice on everyone of these guys. It was a calculated risk and they haven't lost anything if none of these guys work out.



This statement is why I know you don't know what you're talking about.


Don't get me wrong, Cary is willing. More then DRC. But he was no more effective.
I love how people around here want to take shots at the guys that played here last year. Especially since there was barely a system, poor coaching and overall disarray on Defense. My question is, are the same people going to be around running their pie holes when the 2 guys we let walk, have better years then the 2 guys we picked up?
_________________

Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.

Birdman, slowest to 10K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RainbowCarebear


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 34594
Location: "Are you hungry, child?" Yes, she thought, but not for food.
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The thing to love about Williams is that he will hit and tackle. In the last 2 seasons, Nnamdi and DRC combined for 174 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 FF. Williams alone had 153 tackles, 1 sack, and 2 FFs. Cary plays with an attitude, not a sense of entitlement. I promise you that he’ll be a much different corner than the guys we watched the last 2 years.


I don't like Cary Williams cover skills at all. But at least he's a good tackler and willing. Beside he's a stop gap. It's the other Corners on the roster I have a little hope can become good starters.
_________________

"Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the ..., he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them"
"In return, we swore that we should always be their men"


Last edited by RainbowCarebear on Wed May 01, 2013 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WhackyPlague


Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 5026
Location: Orlando, FL
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We went from abysmal to mediocre. I'm not excited about the secondary but I'm not really that worried, either. The secondary is good enough to do well if we can get a good pass rush.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
baconrad3


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 7668
Location: Tempe, AZ
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Phillips is far from an elite talent even when healthy. He's a good player. No Pro Bowls, no All Pro's under his belt. When he came out people were surprised because it was thought there was no 1st round Safty talent that year. It was viewed, at the time, as a slight reach. He only has 36 starts in his career and you can't look at the player without putting a huge question mark next to his name because of the injury history. I assume he will see the field, but no one really has any kind of idea what kind of player he will be physically or mentally due to his history.

Chung is even more of a question mark. Injury history plus. Even when the guy was healthy he was hot and cold.

Cary is soft and isn't very good against the run. A lot like a guy we just let walk away. The difference is, Cary doesn't have the upside of a DRC.

Fletcher is a complete unknown. He has the least amount of starts of all these guys, (26 I believe). He is coming of an injury and couple that with the fact that before his injuries, he committed more penalties then any other player in the league at his position. That doesn't scream elite talent IMO.

Like this Defense, this Secondary is a complete work in progress. It wouldn't surprise any true fan to see all of these guys playing someplace else two years from now. The Front office new they were going to have a rough time after last season and it seems to me they rolled the dice on everyone of these guys. It was a calculated risk and they haven't lost anything if none of these guys work out.



This statement is why I know you don't know what you're talking about.


Don't get me wrong, Cary is willing. More then DRC. But he was no more effective.
I love how people around here want to take shots at the guys that played here last year. Especially since there was barely a system, poor coaching and overall disarray on Defense. My question is, are the same people going to be around running their pie holes when the 2 guys we let walk, have better years then the 2 guys we picked up?



Cary is such a better tackler than DRC. That isn't even a debate. Dude is physical as hell.

Maybe. I don't know. I think overall, our secondary is going to be better. Individually, I think Bradley Fletcher has a better year than any of our CBs as well as DRC and Nnamdi.

Question is, when you're wrong about it, will you keep "running your piehole" as well?



Fletcher seriously is gonna surprise the hell out of people. I see him staying here long term and being our #1 corner.

When he gets the opportunity, guy has shown he's a very good cornerback. Ask any Rams fan about him. He got buried behind the depth chart for some reason last year.....but he's still quite good nonetheless.
_________________


#OfficialBlakeBortlesHypeTrain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jeezla


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 8819
Location: 805 Cali
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aso vs Fletcher - Improvement in coverage

DRC vs Williams - Downgrade in coverage

Allen vs Phillips - Push in coverage.
Phillips is basically a 1 year wonder thus far and that year was a SB year for the Giants when the DL was playing very well and generating a lot of pressure/sacks.

Coleman vs Chung - Even. Both are garbage.

Wolff is our most talented safety, but it could take a while for him to adjust to the NFL and nobody should expect too much from a 5th round pick.

Slot CB is a mystery. Boykin started the season well, then hit a wall and his play fell off big time, similar to Kendricks. Maybe it was a rookie wall, maybe they just aren't very good and teams found ways to expose them.

I'd say our secondary hasn't necessarily gotten better or worse vs the pass, but it should be improved vs the run.

Doesn't really matter how good Fletcher, Cary, Boykin, and Poyer are tho unless we can improve our bottom-feeding pass rush. Pass rush is the biggest question mark we have going forward, especially if we're going to use a 2 gap scheme the majority of the time.
_________________

Kilty Sig '15 Wish List: L Collins, D Perryman, S Calhoun, D Greenberry, C Davis, R Mueller, E McCarthy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdman0069


Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6270
Location: Key West, FL
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Phillips is far from an elite talent even when healthy. He's a good player. No Pro Bowls, no All Pro's under his belt. When he came out people were surprised because it was thought there was no 1st round Safty talent that year. It was viewed, at the time, as a slight reach. He only has 36 starts in his career and you can't look at the player without putting a huge question mark next to his name because of the injury history. I assume he will see the field, but no one really has any kind of idea what kind of player he will be physically or mentally due to his history.

Chung is even more of a question mark. Injury history plus. Even when the guy was healthy he was hot and cold.

Cary is soft and isn't very good against the run. A lot like a guy we just let walk away. The difference is, Cary doesn't have the upside of a DRC.

Fletcher is a complete unknown. He has the least amount of starts of all these guys, (26 I believe). He is coming of an injury and couple that with the fact that before his injuries, he committed more penalties then any other player in the league at his position. That doesn't scream elite talent IMO.

Like this Defense, this Secondary is a complete work in progress. It wouldn't surprise any true fan to see all of these guys playing someplace else two years from now. The Front office new they were going to have a rough time after last season and it seems to me they rolled the dice on everyone of these guys. It was a calculated risk and they haven't lost anything if none of these guys work out.



This statement is why I know you don't know what you're talking about.


Don't get me wrong, Cary is willing. More then DRC. But he was no more effective.
I love how people around here want to take shots at the guys that played here last year. Especially since there was barely a system, poor coaching and overall disarray on Defense. My question is, are the same people going to be around running their pie holes when the 2 guys we let walk, have better years then the 2 guys we picked up?



Cary is such a better tackler than DRC. That isn't even a debate. Dude is physical as hell.

Maybe. I don't know. I think overall, our secondary is going to be better. Individually, I think Bradley Fletcher has a better year than any of our CBs as well as DRC and Nnamdi.

Question is, when you're wrong about it, will you keep "running your piehole" as well?



Fletcher seriously is gonna surprise the hell out of people. I see him staying here long term and being our #1 corner.

When he gets the opportunity, guy has shown he's a very good cornerback. Ask any Rams fan about him. He got buried behind the depth chart for some reason last year.....but he's still quite good nonetheless.


He didn't get buried on the depth chart for, "some reason". He got buried because of the amount of penalties the guy commits. You make the Rams sound clueless for letting him go. He very well may clean up his game, then again he may very well be the same guy committing multiple pass interference infractions in multiple games at crucial times.
The point is, every single guy we brought in is 50/50 to be on this team two years from now. If they weren't, they would of commanded much more compensation and been sought after much, much more. Every guy in this Secondary, ( FA), has major question marks and that's why they all signed "prove it" contracts.
_________________

Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.

Birdman, slowest to 10K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JayAp07


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 2602
Location: Wilmington DE Silo on the sig
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
JayAp07 wrote:
nlesthought wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
JayAp07 wrote:
Mediocre at best. Kenny Phillips could very well be the next Marlin Jackson and never play a down for us. Chung was benched in NE and could prove no better than Coleman or Allen. Williams and Fletcher could be decent for us but neither is a #1 corner.


Did you really just compare Kenny Phillips to Marlin Jackson?



I see KP and Fletcher being the two successful signings in the secondary from this offseason. Williams might be a decent starter but will likely not stick here...and I see Wolff beating out Chung.


The comparison wasn't based on skill but ability to get on the field. Phillips has missed about two seasons worth of games. Bad knees.

If they stay healthy I think the depth would be greatly improved no matter who makes the 53. I'm more concerned how they'll be used new scheme players getting to know each other it'll take time. Good thing Chip gets extra OTAs


Exactly. Phillips has a bad injury history. Marlin Jackson came here "100% healthy" and could never get on the field. Out of all the additions, Phillips worries me for this very reason. It's not like he broke his arm one year and then broke his leg the next, the guy has knee problems dating all the way back to his college days when he tore his ACL. Knee and back problems often derail and end careers because they never seem to go away. Kenny's history has proven that it is a very serious, reoccurring problem for him.



KP's initial knee surgery he had back in 2009 was 100% successful and he recovered very well from it...turning into one of the best safeties in the league in 2010 and 2011. He has missed 2 full seasons, which is alarming definitely...but last year's injury apparently isn't incredibly concerning...he missed 9 games.

Marlin Jackson was a different situation. He hadn't played more than 4 games in a season in over 2 years when coming to us, and had only played 16 games once in his career...whereas KP has played in every game 3/5 years.


Plus this is a different time. If you haven't noticed, there are so many players coming back from these injuries that only a few years ago used to end careers. We've made such breakthroughs in medical science, especially with sports medicine.


It's not about him coming back from prior injuries or even his most recent injury successfully. The point is that he keeps having reoccurring problems with his knees. They can only handle so many more injuries and surgeries. He torn his ACL as a sophomore in college, he had microfracture surgery in 2009, and yet again more knee/MCL problems this past year. Three separate occurrences, not to mention whatever other lingering/nagging problems he has had, the guy clearly has been fighting knee problems his whole career.
_________________


2013 Philadelphia Eagles NFC East Champs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AZ_Eaglesfan


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 5561
Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Phillips is far from an elite talent even when healthy. He's a good player. No Pro Bowls, no All Pro's under his belt. When he came out people were surprised because it was thought there was no 1st round Safty talent that year. It was viewed, at the time, as a slight reach. He only has 36 starts in his career and you can't look at the player without putting a huge question mark next to his name because of the injury history. I assume he will see the field, but no one really has any kind of idea what kind of player he will be physically or mentally due to his history.

Chung is even more of a question mark. Injury history plus. Even when the guy was healthy he was hot and cold.

Cary is soft and isn't very good against the run. A lot like a guy we just let walk away. The difference is, Cary doesn't have the upside of a DRC.

Fletcher is a complete unknown. He has the least amount of starts of all these guys, (26 I believe). He is coming of an injury and couple that with the fact that before his injuries, he committed more penalties then any other player in the league at his position. That doesn't scream elite talent IMO.

Like this Defense, this Secondary is a complete work in progress. It wouldn't surprise any true fan to see all of these guys playing someplace else two years from now. The Front office new they were going to have a rough time after last season and it seems to me they rolled the dice on everyone of these guys. It was a calculated risk and they haven't lost anything if none of these guys work out.



This statement is why I know you don't know what you're talking about.


Don't get me wrong, Cary is willing. More then DRC. But he was no more effective.
I love how people around here want to take shots at the guys that played here last year. Especially since there was barely a system, poor coaching and overall disarray on Defense. My question is, are the same people going to be around running their pie holes when the 2 guys we let walk, have better years then the 2 guys we picked up?



Cary is such a better tackler than DRC. That isn't even a debate. Dude is physical as hell.

Maybe. I don't know. I think overall, our secondary is going to be better. Individually, I think Bradley Fletcher has a better year than any of our CBs as well as DRC and Nnamdi.

Question is, when you're wrong about it, will you keep "running your piehole" as well?



Fletcher seriously is gonna surprise the hell out of people. I see him staying here long term and being our #1 corner.

When he gets the opportunity, guy has shown he's a very good cornerback. Ask any Rams fan about him. He got buried behind the depth chart for some reason last year.....but he's still quite good nonetheless.


I don't see Fletcher as a #1. Can he stick here? Absolutely, but we will need to add more talent at that position sooner then later.
_________________


disaacs wrote:
The Eagles are going to implode. Book it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blahman88


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 24305
Location: Eagles Forum HOF
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe wait until we see them play.........crazy idea
_________________
IrishGreen wrote:
i love the eagles fans on here
i wish we could merge with them and make a mega fanbase

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group