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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 3304
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Think they also might play around with him in Woodson's old fit as well. Hyde has more than his share of issues. But he does have a little "playmaker" in him.


I thought about this. My other shot is maybe that they were thinking of carving out a role in the defense for a Hayward type and that Hyde was drafted to be his backup.


Well yeah, Hayward is very much so playing Woody's old fit right now. Bush has played some in there as well. I'm not a huge Hyde guy. But I did hold a draftable grade there in a very deep class and can at some level see why THIS staff might have been high on him for a host of reasons.


The Hayward gig isn't exactly the same as the Woodson gig was, is it? I seem to recall Woody blitzing a whole lot more.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 202
Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


I don't know, but Tramon is an expensive player and we do have a couple of young guys that can really play. I just wonder if Tramon can get back to where he was and I wonder how much that shoulder has to do with it. I don't know what we would do with his money right now, but I am guessing Shields is going to command a healthy bump in pay and I think he's probably worth it right now and I also think the kid hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling as of the end of last year.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Think they also might play around with him in Woodson's old fit as well. Hyde has more than his share of issues. But he does have a little "playmaker" in him.


I thought about this. My other shot is maybe that they were thinking of carving out a role in the defense for a Hayward type and that Hyde was drafted to be his backup.


Well yeah, Hayward is very much so playing Woody's old fit right now. Bush has played some in there as well. I'm not a huge Hyde guy. But I did hold a draftable grade there in a very deep class and can at some level see why THIS staff might have been high on him for a host of reasons.


The Hayward gig isn't exactly the same as the Woodson gig was, is it? I seem to recall Woody blitzing a whole lot more.


I'm not saying they use them both the same way. I'm saying Hayward is playing the same fit. Hayward is the one they move over slot with an extra DB on the field. In dime, more often than not Capers adds a third safety they same way we do in our camp. They don't blitz Hayward. But that's not his game either. Kids a damn stud over slot though. Not sure there is a better young CB in the game in there.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


I don't know, but Tramon is an expensive player and we do have a couple of young guys that can really play. I just wonder if Tramon can get back to where he was and I wonder how much that shoulder has to do with it. I don't know what we would do with his money right now, but I am guessing Shields is going to command a healthy bump in pay and I think he's probably worth it right now and I also think the kid hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling as of the end of last year.


I wonder this as well? Everything about his game changed when he had the shoulder injury. But by all accounts he is 100%. At times it takes longer to heal the head than the injury though.
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I Am Rodgers


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:

I wonder this as well? Everything about his game changed when he had the shoulder injury. But by all accounts he is 100%. At times it takes longer to heal the head than the injury though.


Something like this came up today watching baseball. Juan Nicasio was pitching for Colorado. The broadcaster told a story about the catcher pointing out a mechanical flaw to Nicasio a bit ago. Nicasio wasn't finishing his pitches. It all stemmed from when he got hurt. He took a liner to the head last season. Slightly different scenario from Tramon's but it's an injury in your head changing how you play.
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Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 202
Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


I don't know, but Tramon is an expensive player and we do have a couple of young guys that can really play. I just wonder if Tramon can get back to where he was and I wonder how much that shoulder has to do with it. I don't know what we would do with his money right now, but I am guessing Shields is going to command a healthy bump in pay and I think he's probably worth it right now and I also think the kid hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling as of the end of last year.


I wonder this as well? Everything about his game changed when he had the shoulder injury. But by all accounts he is 100%. At times it takes longer to heal the head than the injury though.


Fear of re-injuring is a real thing. Years ago, I messed up my left leg in a freak break dancing incident and I dislocated my kneecap to the point where it ended up on the back of my knee and I broke my ankle all in one fell swoop. While that was sort of funny and I do laugh about it now, I never recovered mentally from it and I no longer "own" the dance floor at weddings and bar mitzvahs. I did win a splits competition at my best friends wedding a couple of summers ago, but statistically, there was very little chance of having a recurrence of the injury that has sidelined me for going on 8 years. I am sure Tramon considers the same things... Laughing
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1713
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


I don't know, but Tramon is an expensive player and we do have a couple of young guys that can really play. I just wonder if Tramon can get back to where he was and I wonder how much that shoulder has to do with it. I don't know what we would do with his money right now, but I am guessing Shields is going to command a healthy bump in pay and I think he's probably worth it right now and I also think the kid hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling as of the end of last year.


I wonder this as well? Everything about his game changed when he had the shoulder injury. But by all accounts he is 100%. At times it takes longer to heal the head than the injury though.


Fear of re-injuring is a real thing. Years ago, I messed up my left leg in a freak break dancing incident and I dislocated my kneecap to the point where it ended up on the back of my knee and I broke my ankle all in one fell swoop. While that was sort of funny and I do laugh about it now, I never recovered mentally from it and I no longer "own" the dance floor at weddings and bar mitzvahs. I did win a splits competition at my best friends wedding a couple of summers ago, but statistically, there was very little chance of having a recurrence of the injury that has sidelined me for going on 8 years. I am sure Tramon considers the same things... Laughing


Sigged.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 202
Location: On the Gold
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubyajay wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


I don't know, but Tramon is an expensive player and we do have a couple of young guys that can really play. I just wonder if Tramon can get back to where he was and I wonder how much that shoulder has to do with it. I don't know what we would do with his money right now, but I am guessing Shields is going to command a healthy bump in pay and I think he's probably worth it right now and I also think the kid hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling as of the end of last year.


I wonder this as well? Everything about his game changed when he had the shoulder injury. But by all accounts he is 100%. At times it takes longer to heal the head than the injury though.


Fear of re-injuring is a real thing. Years ago, I messed up my left leg in a freak break dancing incident and I dislocated my kneecap to the point where it ended up on the back of my knee and I broke my ankle all in one fell swoop. While that was sort of funny and I do laugh about it now, I never recovered mentally from it and I no longer "own" the dance floor at weddings and bar mitzvahs. I did win a splits competition at my best friends wedding a couple of summers ago, but statistically, there was very little chance of having a recurrence of the injury that has sidelined me for going on 8 years. I am sure Tramon considers the same things... Laughing


Sigged.


I did win the split-off though. My junk was on the floor and there is photo evidence to prove it. Cool
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Madtown


Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Madtown wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
So then how do you see the base DL shaking out? Raji is pretty much staying at NT, which DE do we see used most often on which side though? Pickett is pretty much a very high end plugger at this point, but say between Worthy and Jones. Who gets stacked next to Clay at RE and who pairs with Perry at LE? I realize Capers moves everyone everywhere sometimes for the most part, but what would you call those 3 in a "base"?


Clearly there will be a strong rotation. But Jones is the least stout and most explosive. Good chance they want him on the weak side with Clay. I'll tell ya though, every bit as excited about the possibilities with Neal and Perry crushing the pocket on the strong side. Only thing I know for sure is that I want both Jones and Neal on the field when it's time to get after the QB.


:drool:

Yes, that will be fun! And honestly, I know some people are down on Perry, but I really think he could be a big time player this year. The man's physical skills are obvious and he was making a HUGE scheme adjustment to anything he had ever played. To me, it seems like he was starting to "get it" more and more. Maybe I'm just hoping, but I think he could really make a big jump this year.


I'm a little scared about the wrist. But I agree, if nothing else Perry showed he could pull the fit last year. That was half the battle with that one IMO. Having a stud like Neal in front of him should help a great deal as well. One needs to look no further than Aldon Smith at the tail end of last year to see how much of a difference having that stud in front of you truly means for those guys. Don't think for a sec that Jones pick only bumped the grade at one spot!


If you wouldn't mind, can you explain why you're worried about the wrist? I know it ended his season, but I never thought it'd be something that'd be an issue going forward. Is this something that we need to worry about impacting Perry's career?
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not lose any sleep over it at this point. That was an impact injury on something he will often have impact with again though. Things like that can become chronic but there is nothing to say that will be the case here. Man was learning a much different way to play the game last year and got hurt. It happens(see Sherrod's final snap at RT). His tech will get better and this might never pop up again. Just one of those things I want to see in play again so I feel good about it moving ahead. Nothing more really.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


Isn't there a chance he was still damaged goods last season but played anyway? I thought I heard he had some nerve damage in that shoulder or something...?
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Madtown


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. I do feel better that it's his left wrist, though. Playing that LOLB spot, he'll be jamming that right hand into the RT's pads often. But you're right, either way those hands/wrists feel the impact at any postition.
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Madtown


Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
i think that packer fans of all people would recognize the value of a stud safety...

It's a premium position on our defense, without question.
Uummmmm, THIS! Why keep Hyde at CB? He will never crack the lineup with those 4 in front of him...


I think McMillian is going to be a stud at safety this year. I see Hyde helping Bush this year and learning the ropes as a high end teams player and then having him replace Bush down the road.

Now, I also think it's entirely possible that Tramon doesn't look like he's worth the money we are paying him and we cut him and Shields and Hayward take over as full time starters and House works as the dime back with Hyde backing him up. If that doesn't play out and Hyde can't cut it at CB, then maybe he becomes a safety on paper, but I still think the main reason they drafted him was to pair with Bush and eventually replace him.


I think there is a very real chance this will happen. BUT NOT THIS YEAR! Would not shock me one bit if they moved that money from Williams pocket into Shields pocket next year though. Far less dead money there. That one is clearly in Williams hands though. Still a good player but is getting close to not being worth the check IMO. Needs to get back in the press and find that chip he played with some time back. I don't see a drop in skill, I see a change in style.


Isn't there a chance he was still damaged goods last season but played anyway? I thought I heard he had some nerve damage in that shoulder or something...?


That's my hope. If I remember correctly, he had some nerve issues. Sometimes it just takes over a year for things like that to correct themselves. And like our breakdancing friend said, sometimes it gets in your head a bit too for a while (D. Rose). Hopefully he's had enough time now to get right in both of those aspects.
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Kampman74


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Kampman74 wrote:
I know you kind of talked about this already, but no chance at Hyde at safety, all reports seem to be that he is never really going to be anything at corner, I mean why not try safety. And also if Sherrod isn't good to go, do you think Bakh will give Newhouse a run at LT or would it take him a year to get it down, ya think?


Corner is a premium position, safety isn't. Why move a guy playing a premium position to one that isn't? Unless Hyde fails at CB, he should never be a safety.


I think Hyde was really drafted to take Jarrett Bush's job. A guy like Bush is really nice to have around (can play some CB, some S, but he's mostly valuable on special teams), but the original Jarrett Bush is getting up there in years and is more expensive than a guy on a 5th round rookie contract.


Very much so THIS.

Think they also might play around with him in Woodson's old fit as well. Hyde has more than his share of issues. But he does have a little "playmaker" in him.

As far as the safety thing goes. Not sure I would make that move unless he fails at CB. LIS, true premium on reps played at safety in this Capers D. Think I would much rather just put the time into those we have back there now. Not like Hyde has no shot at CB. The ball skills will always hold true. Has a shot if he can master the press. If shows unable, then make that move. One thing that's nice about Hyde is the fact that he should bring ya value on the teams unit while he finds his place on the backend.

For now though, I feel that in bold is spot on. Gunner that sees the field at CB/safety by gameday need.



Not to toot my own horn I but said that in the Hyde thread and got made fun of, so suck it haters!! Ah just kidding. Laughing
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