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My take.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: My take. Reply with quote

First just let me say THANK YOU for all the kind mail many of you guys sent me this past week. I also got a ton of mail asking me to do this. MODS, feel free to lock this down if need be. Just wanted to put everything in one place for all to see to avoid some of said mail/PMís ect.

JONES Ė At the time of this pick I had Jones in my top tier. I had Elam on my mind at the time of the pick but for much of the same reasons I am high on Jones here, TONE SETTER. I just was not sure TT would go with a Jones type after past high picks on the like. That said, one could make a VERY strong case that Jones is the best interior pass rusher in this draft class. Damn kid lives in the backfield. Some of the best film of this draft class as well. Just a bit of a tweener and needed the right home. This Capers D looks to be that home though and I can see very real value here. I have been asked ďwhy didnít they trade up when Floyd fellĒ but truth be told I donít know why they would have if they felt good about Jones. I did have a higher grade on Floyd but would not have moved in round one for any player in this draft class. One could also make a strong case that Jones is a much better pure fit in system than Floyd as well. Floyd could have played the fit, but his high board came in that Vikes tampa2 at 3-tech. LIS, Jones was a 40 tweener but sure looks the part at 5-tech and will rush the hell out of ya inside. All in all, very happy with this one if for no other reason than the kid being a real deal tone setter out there. LIS, I did not care where it came from but it needed to come!

LACY Ė With everything that came out in the weeks leading up to the draft most felt there would be a run here. In that, Iím not 100% sure TT got his guy here to tell the truth. Iím sure he felt good about that trade at the time but wonder if he would do so again if he had it all back again. LIS, leading up to this thing most felt there would be a run and they would come in that order(Bell, Ball, Lacy, Michael). I can see why TT moved back a hair with the last three still on the board. But Iím not real sure it was the wise thing to do as we stand right now with 20/20 vision. I truly do feel Ball would have been a Packer had not TT made that trade! That all said, they did end up with one hell of a RB here and getting Franklin later on makes me feel a good bit better about some of the issues I had with Lacy. I do NOT want this to come off as a cut on Lacy. I like him a great deal. One would not need to look long to see how I feel about foot issues at any skills position though. Itís a true deal breaker in my eyes. We all have our things though and I for one hope no issues come up down the line there. Damn kid is a bigger Lynch if he can stay on the field and Iím sure many of you know how I feel about Lynch in this fit.

BAKHTIARI Ė Bak is another one that I felt would high board well for some pending system. That said, Iím sure more than a hand full took him off the board for fit or put a center only slot on him pending system as well. This is his home though. Self made but I would not call him a try hard. Has some very real ability and movement skills at length. Just not a power play. Wall off type that needs to lean to drive and you can slip him because of it. Also has a odd body type(high cut/long legs) but itís easy to see thatís something the Packers can clearly get over after the high pick on Sherrod(same issue). In this Packers system though I truly feel Bak can play any of them. That alone was worth the pick in my eyes. Not real far off from Colledge when he came out of school and I just hope they donít go down the same path with him. Play him where you feel he fits best, but develop him there and ya might just end up with a damn fine starter. I for one donít move him from LT until he falls on his face there or Sherrod turns into an All-Pro.

TRETTER Ė Good prospect, but I think TT made a mistake here. Let me explain. LIS, I know for a fact many had Bak on their boards as a center. After the Cal kid went, then Bak, it started a run on centers there and I feel TT took Tretter a little higher than need be after a few came off the board. Not saying I blame him or that you could avoid said run. Just my POV. Maybe TT could have taken a guy like B.Jones at Bakís spot with hopes that Bak would be there at Tretterís spot. But that is anyones guess and I also would have held the premium on the LT. Tretter is a damn solid interior lineman prospect though. Very smart, tough SOB. Felt the Slippery Rock kid(Fusco) was a very sound comp leading in. Thatís Tretterís deal. I think he can play any of them inside but if he is going to be a good starter in this league I feel it will come at center. Kids very raw but he is the type that makes ya feel good about his odds of getting it. First thing I do is sit him in a room with Lang and have Lang explain the pros of good hand use!!!

FRANKLIN Ė Might be the best value pick of this Packers draft class. In terms of just pure system fit, I feel the only better in the class was Ball. Franklin was made to play in this system. Great cut-back ability and very high vision marks. That staff would pound the hell out of the table for him as well(very telling). Made the Lacy pick look all that much better IMO. Not much to say about this one really. Smart trade, great prospect! Would not shock me one bit if he was very close to that top tier of RBís on the Packers board. Not like Franklin needed the right home either. Thatís just a good player that fell.

HYDE Ė IMO, Bush needs to be looking over his shoulder at this one. Might be the only one of our DBís that needs to do so though. Kids a great gunner prospect and can tackle ya in space as well as any DB in this class. The ball skills and body are plus grades as well. Thatís about it for me love with this one though. Young man needs a TON of work on the backend and Iím not real sure I feel great about him getting it any time soon. That was a very tough film read. Just not sure what you do with him and in that Iím not sure I could have handed in that card. Only two ways to go though. You either develop hard on the press or ya move him to safety. Good chance they will work him at CB first though. Think his only real chance is if he gets real damn good at press tech though. Donít love the eyes for zone(CB or safety) and has skill set flaws both inside and outside in man. Think I would lean heavy on his press game here and tell him the sideline is his friend. I can get over the pick because of the special teams value. But Hyde was anything but one of my guys this year.

BOYD Ė Much like Frankin, I just think the value river met the road with this one. Boydís high board clearly came at 3-tech. Great guy to have around though. Very active when on fresh legs. My biggest beef was the drop off in play after Cox left his side. But this is very sound value for a big that can move as well as Boyd can. Not a pass rusher, but can be hard to deal with at times in the run game. One of those kids I feel might be a better pro than college player. He is not special. But he is damn good when on fresh legs and heíll get his air at the pro level.

PALMER Ė One trick pony at this point. But a very good paper set at a premium position. Very much so the type I would like to take a shot on late. Good chance they had a PFA grade on him and just wanted to make sure they landed him. Raw as they come though. Bends the edge well and has some pop. Just no second move and you can run right at him. Great body for special team until they can develop him at bit more at rush-LB. Hard not to feel good about a prospect like this late with KG around though. If he canít show ya how to get after it, it canít be done!

JOHNSON Ė Again, a raw upside prospect with very good paper numbers. Think TT missed out on a very good WR class early(canít blame him with the way it fell). But that also might be the reason this kid is still on the board late. Think this in a mid board WR more years than not. Little older than you would like being as raw as he is. But they only make so many of them that run that well at size. Damn kid has some good hands also. The sooner he learns he canít just run by them at the pro level, the better. Thatís going to be half the battle. He had a very real skills lean at level of comp. Like his odds though if he buys in from day1. Reps guy also, less than ideal. It will be fun watching Johnson and Boykin get after it in camp though. Johnson has the ability and Boykin has the savvy. Good chance Johnson makes the 53. He would be lost if they try sticking him on the PS. Too many guys liked him and with camp injuries there will be spots open around the league.

DORSEY Ė Feel bad for this young man at some level. The QB play he fell into was hard to watch. Had some love for the kid coming out of high school that year and PSU did offer him as ship. Solid skill set and body. Tough kid that will do the dirty work also. Sadly, Iím not real sure he did not fall into a tough spot again here in Green Bay. That was a MUCH different tree he ran in college than he will be ask to run under Mac. He needs to work harder than the next guy to make this club IMO. Guess itís up to him to do so at this point. VERY good chance he lands on the PS. But will need to show signs to do so.

BARRINGTON Ė I view this kid much in the same way I view Hyde. Good chance his special teams marks had far more to do with the pick than his skills grade. Kuhn is not getting any younger. At some point they will move on and this is the body type they will be looking for. This team has lost a few of that like on STís the last few years. Good chance you can stick him on the PS until you need a body. Iím one that likes taking a shot on upside late. But can see real value in guys like this late as well.
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Skeet


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 1158
Location: Happy Valley
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the read Palmy, it's a nice break from studying for finals.

I hope your shoulders healin up!
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AtariB20


Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 3676
Location: The Real Titletown, USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the write up! But just wanted to chime in on the Lacy thing.

I wanted Ball... He was my #1 but Lacy was #2 for me. I do think they wanted one or the other and traded back hoping 1 of them was still there, and one was. I believe I read that they were both very close on their big board... and our RB coach said he thinks Lacy was the best RB in the draft.

I could definitely see a scenario where some in the room wanted Ball and some Lacy, and this was the win (new draft pick) win (get one of the RBs) situation that they went with.
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RiotPunch


Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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Location: Cream City
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, palmy!! Really interesting stuff with Lacy/Ball.
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CallMeBarrett


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great read, Palmy.


Keep it up.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AtariB20 wrote:
Thanks for the write up! But just wanted to chime in on the Lacy thing.

I wanted Ball... He was my #1 but Lacy was #2 for me. I do think they wanted one or the other and traded back hoping 1 of them was still there, and one was. I believe I read that they were both very close on their big board... and our RB coach said he thinks Lacy was the best RB in the draft.

I could definitely see a scenario where some in the room wanted Ball and some Lacy, and this was the win (new draft pick) win (get one of the RBs) situation that they went with.


Lacy did have the best film. But it's always the sum of all the parts. Good chance they had Bell, Ball, and Lacy very close on their board. WE ALL DID! I was told they would have passed on Michael. So yes, good chance they moved back thinking they had a very close grade on both Lacy and Ball.
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HawaiiFan808


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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Location: Honolulu, HI
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! Always great to read your evals!
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: My take. Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
One would not need to look long to see how I feel about foot issues at any skills position though.
It's like all these Alabama guys are getting grinded to a pulp. Lacy, Jones, Williams, Milliner, and even guys like Chapman last year. Saban is getting the most out of these guys while he can.

Always great to hear your take, Palmy.
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persiandud


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 929
Location: Davis, CA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot Palmy, love reading your posts.

Have to say, I'm a little worried about Lacy now, after reading the Steelers report on him and your take. Worried he might turn into Ahmad Bradshaw with his foot issues, and will only play sparingly during the year. It's great that we got Franklin to hedge that possibility, but I'm still worried. You want this kid with you in the playoffs, he will be a difference maker.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: My take. Reply with quote

justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
One would not need to look long to see how I feel about foot issues at any skills position though.
It's like all these Alabama guys are getting grinded to a pulp. Lacy, Jones, Williams, Milliner, and even guys like Chapman last year. Saban is getting the most out of these guys while he can.

Always great to hear your take, Palmy.


It probably looks that way for some right now. Combo of many things but I sure as hell do not hold them over Saban's head. Those kids all know the deal up front and Saban will let ya walk if it turns out not to be for you. I would not blink an eye if my son was given the chance to play for that man.

Just think he pulls a ton of high star kids out of high school and most of those high star kids have put in work/reps/blood to pull those stars. I also think that's a world class program all the way around and they treat injuries like the pros would. Many of the things they have cleaned up with surgeries other programs would not. Just look at Milliner this year. Kid went under the knife a host of times. But three of them would have been fine over time with rest. LIS, they run that program like the pros do. Get them fixed, and get them back on the football field.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

persiandud wrote:
Thanks a lot Palmy, love reading your posts.

Have to say, I'm a little worried about Lacy now, after reading the Steelers report on him and your take. Worried he might turn into Ahmad Bradshaw with his foot issues, and will only play sparingly during the year. It's great that we got Franklin to hedge that possibility, but I'm still worried. You want this kid with you in the playoffs, he will be a difference maker.


LIS, we all have our things. The camp I come from just happens to see foot issues at the skills as a big RED flag. It would be different if you had a medical history with the player. Woodson had that same surgery done and this Packers staff new how to handle him and get good product on the field(probably why they were OK with Lacy as well).

Sadly, foot issues at the skills is a med RED that has a habit of showing it's face down the road. That exact surgery has ended a career or two though, a la Deion Sanders.
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persiandud


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This kid has missed one game in the past 2 years.

Just saying. Still worried, though.
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Mr Green


Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard that you were in the Pittsburgh Steelers war room. Is that correct? What was your role in there?

If you don't mind me asking, what was the discussion like in there regarding Bell, Ball and Lacy?
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vang_evo9


Joined: 13 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Nice read.

By "Kuhn is not getting younger" and his size, did you mean Barrington can be moved to fullback like a Korey Hall, or him on special teams?
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

persiandud wrote:
This kid has missed one game in the past 2 years.

Just saying. Still worried, though.


......and I hope he never leaves the field with injury again! I'm just saying that there is a very real chance this is something he is going to be dealing with over his career. It might be four or five years from now and they might be able to fix the pain with little problem at that point. I don't know and I'm sure as hell no doc. Just sayin that history would say that's a injury that will not age well and will be an issue as some point.
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