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Kluwe Watch: will his leg be bigger than his mouth?
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VikeSince70


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two sides to every story.

On the first side we have people saying that the Vikings cut Kluwe because of his outspoken views on some subjects. With this said there is no proof and this argument would be thrown out as being circumstantial at best. I do believe however that it did play a minor role in the decision to cut Kluwe.

On the second side we have people saying the Vikings cut Kluwe due to performance issue's along with money. This is the side that makes the most sense as we saw last year this very scenario when Longwell was cut.

Back to the first side I would say that being in management for about 30 years a decision to do something was rarely based on one thing. It was a stewing pot of many things unless someone did something blatant. Kluwe in my mind was probably cut for age, money, performance and finally distractions to the team. So while the distraction to the team might have been a reason, it was probably not the main reason as to why Kluwe got cut.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^aah, the Old Man Voice of Reason finally.

thank you.
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xmichaelp


Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 1377
Location: Minnesnowta
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorty McFast wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
The purpose seems to be to rile up the ''moral majority'', and find another 'enemy' to battle their cause against, pro sports.


I've said it before and I'll repeat it here. The Media HATES the Vikings in Minnesota.

From digging through McKinnie's trash for love boat to Randy "running over" the meter maid. Just scummy journalism.


Funny story, I found out a couple years ago that that was my friend's mom.. I guess she never smoke about it and didn't want people to know haha.
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Bermuda Viking


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 4877
Location: Paget, Bermuda
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikeSince70 wrote:
There are two sides to every story.

On the first side we have people saying that the Vikings cut Kluwe because of his outspoken views on some subjects. With this said there is no proof and this argument would be thrown out as being circumstantial at best. I do believe however that it did play a minor role in the decision to cut Kluwe.

On the second side we have people saying the Vikings cut Kluwe due to performance issue's along with money. This is the side that makes the most sense as we saw last year this very scenario when Longwell was cut.

Back to the first side I would say that being in management for about 30 years a decision to do something was rarely based on one thing. It was a stewing pot of many things unless someone did something blatant. Kluwe in my mind was probably cut for age, money, performance and finally distractions to the team. So while the distraction to the team might have been a reason, it was probably not the main reason as to why Kluwe got cut.


Very well said. It's about the total.

Everyone sees everything going on on the team, and Kluwe was distracted. I am sure that was noticed and not good for the team. We all know that if Kluwe was kickin the skin off the ball then he's still with us. I am a big Kluwe fan.
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Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikeSince70 wrote:
There are two sides to every story.

On the first side we have people saying that the Vikings cut Kluwe because of his outspoken views on some subjects. With this said there is no proof and this argument would be thrown out as being circumstantial at best. I do believe however that it did play a minor role in the decision to cut Kluwe.

On the second side we have people saying the Vikings cut Kluwe due to performance issue's along with money. This is the side that makes the most sense as we saw last year this very scenario when Longwell was cut.

Back to the first side I would say that being in management for about 30 years a decision to do something was rarely based on one thing. It was a stewing pot of many things unless someone did something blatant. Kluwe in my mind was probably cut for age, money, performance and finally distractions to the team. So while the distraction to the team might have been a reason, it was probably not the main reason as to why Kluwe got cut.


Considering the 'power of the pyramid', I'll add a third facet to the discussion of causes for Kluwe's release. The final straw among three nearly equal reasons was the availability of a replacement who has upside potential greater than Kluwe.

Without a better replacement, the Vikings would not have moved on. The Vikings could tolerate Kluwe's activism despite it turning off some fans and non-fans. They could also absorb his salary, as seen by their willingness to pay Allen this year more than he might be worth if his performance declines. Consider the reason why KWill's salary was changed before the draft. Consider what might happen if a rookie DE were to show in pre-season an ability to play as well as Allen.

The Vikings tolerated a few other player's past digressions and legal issues because they are high level performers. The acid test would be another player speaking his mind on a controversial or political subject. If they didn't/ don't release him, ask yourself 'why not?'.

Locke 'competed against' video of Kluwe last weekend, and he proved himself worthy of replacing Kluwe. He had to punt as well, or nearly as well as Kluwe has recently, hold well for FGs, and show enough agility to (attempt a) tackle a punt or kick returner.

If you thoroughly discuss several reasons for some occurrence and cannot come to a conclusion after some time, it likely points to multiple causes with nearly equal weight rather than one. Spielman et al made a well thought out decision on Kluwe after consideration of three important facets. Kluwe likely requested his release rather than wait for camp to be cut.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
Kluwe likely requested his release rather than wait for camp to be cut.

well, of course he did, we already know that for a fact. it's not a "likely" situation, he publicly did so.
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Krauser


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it was a decision prompted by multiple factors pointing in the same direction.

I do think there's been a concerted effort to make the Vikings a team of straight arrows and team players. All of the players we've taken in the draft since 2011 have been high character guys. When was the last time they took someone who dropped in the draft because of character concerns, Griffen? Lots of players touted for finishing their degrees (Ponder has an MBA) or being team/community leaders or being students of the game. Patterson is just about the only athletic marvel they've drafted recently, except for maybe JRob's 40 time.

Meanwhile most of the characters that made the late 2000s team memorable have moved on: McKinnie cut, Harvin traded, Favre retired, Kluwe cut. Most of the malcontents and variable effort guys have moved on too: Rice wasn't offered a contract, Berrian and Aromashodu are gone. About the only characters left are Allen (who's given heart and soul for the team on and off the field) and Griffen (who's cleaned up his act and seems very loyal). Simpson is grouchy with the media but apparently all effort for the team. They added Jennings who's Mr Leadership and they've got Adrian who's one of the faces of the NFL.

Don't think that's all a coincidence.

I bet it's not a moralistic strategy (we should be better people for God and country) but a team building one (we should hang together as a team so we can develop talent and perform at our best when the stakes are high).
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PaulWall_23


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As soon as Locke has his first 60 yard bomb, Kluwe will be forgotten.
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Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
Kluwe likely requested his release rather than wait for camp to be cut.

well, of course he did, we already know that for a fact. it's not a "likely" situation, he publicly did so.


Uncertainly. It could have been staged.

Exemplary dialogue between Spielman, Wilf and Kluwe....

Spielman: Chris; we have to let you go, but we'll allow you to first make a public plea to be released.

Kluwe: OK, thanks... I'll tweet about it as soon as I get to my phone after this meeting ends. It's been nice knowin' ya.

Wilf: We wanted to keep you, but Priefer has been going nuts every time you tweet something about World of Warcraft. He hates that stuff, for whatever reason.

Kluwe: Understood. Dude has his right to chose. Whoever Priefer prefers. I appreciate the honesty.

Wilf: Do you have an hour after you clean out your locker to teach me how to play World of Warcraft?

Kluwe. Sure, no problemo, dude. I would if ya buy me a fish dinner. Deal?

Wilf: Deal, dude!

Spielman: Dudes! - can we end this meeting? I have to call Tim Tebow's agent ASAP, now that we have more salary cap room.

Laughing
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GoneWithTheWind


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/statuses/335025267951140864

Kluwe signs with Raiders. I like the fit for both sides. Kluwe provides good competition for Marquette King.
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eman9416


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoneWithTheWind wrote:
https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/statuses/335025267951140864

Kluwe signs with Raiders. I like the fit for both sides. Kluwe provides good competition for Marquette King.


Good luck to him
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an interview with ESPN Radio earlier this month, Kluwe said he never had a problem with his Vikings teammates.

"What I do is, when I'm there to play football, that's the only thing I'm there for. I'm not going to preach or tell anyone what to do because that's not what I'm getting paid to do," he said.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9281436/chris-kluwe-says-signing-oakland-raiders
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Worm Guts


Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
I agree that it was a decision prompted by multiple factors pointing in the same direction.

I do think there's been a concerted effort to make the Vikings a team of straight arrows and team players. All of the players we've taken in the draft since 2011 have been high character guys. When was the last time they took someone who dropped in the draft because of character concerns, Griffen? Lots of players touted for finishing their degrees (Ponder has an MBA) or being team/community leaders or being students of the game. Patterson is just about the only athletic marvel they've drafted recently, except for maybe JRob's 40 time.

Meanwhile most of the characters that made the late 2000s team memorable have moved on: McKinnie cut, Harvin traded, Favre retired, Kluwe cut. Most of the malcontents and variable effort guys have moved on too: Rice wasn't offered a contract, Berrian and Aromashodu are gone. About the only characters left are Allen (who's given heart and soul for the team on and off the field) and Griffen (who's cleaned up his act and seems very loyal). Simpson is grouchy with the media but apparently all effort for the team. They added Jennings who's Mr Leadership and they've got Adrian who's one of the faces of the NFL.

Don't think that's all a coincidence.

I bet it's not a moralistic strategy (we should be better people for God and country) but a team building one (we should hang together as a team so we can develop talent and perform at our best when the stakes are high).


I would consider Kluwe a high character guy, the highest of character really, so I'm not sure why your lumping him in with some others there.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:
Krauser wrote:
I agree that it was a decision prompted by multiple factors pointing in the same direction.

I do think there's been a concerted effort to make the Vikings a team of straight arrows and team players. All of the players we've taken in the draft since 2011 have been high character guys. When was the last time they took someone who dropped in the draft because of character concerns, Griffen? Lots of players touted for finishing their degrees (Ponder has an MBA) or being team/community leaders or being students of the game. Patterson is just about the only athletic marvel they've drafted recently, except for maybe JRob's 40 time.

Meanwhile most of the characters that made the late 2000s team memorable have moved on: McKinnie cut, Harvin traded, Favre retired, Kluwe cut. Most of the malcontents and variable effort guys have moved on too: Rice wasn't offered a contract, Berrian and Aromashodu are gone. About the only characters left are Allen (who's given heart and soul for the team on and off the field) and Griffen (who's cleaned up his act and seems very loyal). Simpson is grouchy with the media but apparently all effort for the team. They added Jennings who's Mr Leadership and they've got Adrian who's one of the faces of the NFL.

Don't think that's all a coincidence.

I bet it's not a moralistic strategy (we should be better people for God and country) but a team building one (we should hang together as a team so we can develop talent and perform at our best when the stakes are high).


I would consider Kluwe a high character guy, the highest of character really, so I'm not sure why your lumping him in with some others there.


Yeah I'd say that is borderline ignorance as well.

Simpson was signed despite a drug issue. Cook had red flags due to character concerns coming out of Virgina Tech.

Character doesn't mean much when you are desperate to fill talent at a position.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're using "character" differently here.

I agree completely that Kluwe is a high character guy. He's also "a character": interesting and unpredictable. I like his politics and I don't mind his attitude -- didn't mean to lump him with the scandals and bad behavior from McKinnie, Favre, etc, just that these were all guys who loomed large as "characters" even aside from the team.

My point was that the Vikings under Spielman seem to prefer straight arrows (Kluwe is a wild card) and team players (he is, but he didn't get along with his coach). They've avoided players with red flags in the last couple of drafts (Griffen and Ballard were the last 2 they took who dropped because of positive drug tests). Several of their picks have been touted for academic achievements and leadership qualities. They traded away Harvin, who wasn't big on the team concept, and signed Jennings, who's heavily involved in charity and leadership work about Being Great. They cut Kluwe and kept clean-cut Jeff Locke (and they drafted Locke, not Brad Wing). They've also avoided throwing money at guys with decent production who weren't reliable effort performers: re-signing Greenway but not Sidney Rice, for instance.

It's not an absolute thing: Simpson was re-signed, Cook was welcomed back, etc. They still have a few high-character "characters" who are fun to watch on TV, most notably Jared Allen. But there seems to be a trend: they're becoming a bit of a boring, more serious team.
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