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catamount


Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Rating the Draft Reply with quote

Opinons are going to vary. There is no way you can have many needs, five cholces, 350+ options, and please everyone. However, I saw a process that I really like. Here are the key points:

1. No stupid trades. Trading up almost always requires a reach. Trading down replaces difference makers with role players, generally speaking. I understand it on occasion, but we do not have any Jeff Otahs, Armanti Edwards, or Everett Browns and the lost picks they cost us.

2. This is a bit complex, so stay with me. How many fourth, fifth, and sixth round picks start in the NFL as rookies? What percentage? It is very low. So why do we get mad about mid to late round draft picks not meeting immediate needs? It is dumb. Take the best player available because he ain't playing much anyway.

Take AJ Klein, for example. Many of you griped about the pick. Consider this: He plays the same position Jon Beason plays. Beason is the highest paid MLB in the NFL and he cannot beat out the MLB on his own team. He is overpaid. He would not renegotiate his contract. Gettlemen is not going to overpay. Klein is a good LB. So, next year, when cutting Beason is a bit more doable, we have Klein, a SLB with a year of NFL experience--already knows the system. Klein was chosen for 2014 (and special teams). He was the BPA.

The same rule applies to Barner. Another RB??!!! However, DWill is probably a June 1 cut, which will clear up cap room. So drafting Barner allows us to clear cap room, get rid of a 30-year old back who has not run for a 1000 yards since he was 27, and it gives the offense options. We have a bull (Tolbert), a workhorse (Stewart), and a scat back (Barner). We also have a RB we can stash on the PS who is pretty good (Poole). Where is the bad business? Cleaning up Marty's mess and getting better. The savings from DWill's $$ alone will nearly pay all of the drafted rookies.

3. Gettlemen listens. He took advice from the coaches and didn't take players who were not good fits. Hurney went against coaches when he took Clausen and Eric Norwood. Norwood was as pure a 3-4 guy as they come. He did not listen.

So, we might draft to fill immediate needs early in the draft (as we did last week) but it is stupid to draft late rounders to fill immediate needs. So quit griping about it! (some of you).. How did Norman work out last year? Fua? McClain? You are adding one or two starters a year--the rest are for the future, so forget immediate needs--draft for value and the future. Our new Guard will probalby suck for a year--but his upside is unreal. Sorry some can't see this. Do this long enough, and we will have so much depth, the draft will change its meaning to the Panthers.

We had a great draft, at least the strategy was terrific.
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3428fanatic


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 748
Location: north carolina
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am happy with our draft. the only reach that could br argued was the OLine pick we made. All in all i think it was very solid
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boondock


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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3428fanatic wrote:
I am happy with our draft. the only reach that could br argued was the OLine pick we made. All in all i think it was very solid


That's how I feel, but if he turns into a solid start in a couple of years, I will forget about him being a reach.
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johnydtarheel


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 4207
Location: Charlotte NC
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Rating the Draft Reply with quote

catamount wrote:
Opinons are going to vary. There is no way you can have many needs, five cholces, 350+ options, and please everyone. However, I saw a process that I really like. Here are the key points:

1. No stupid trades. Trading up almost always requires a reach. Trading down replaces difference makers with role players, generally speaking. I understand it on occasion, but we do not have any Jeff Otahs, Armanti Edwards, or Everett Browns and the lost picks they cost us.

2. This is a bit complex, so stay with me. How many fourth, fifth, and sixth round picks start in the NFL as rookies? What percentage? It is very low. So why do we get mad about mid to late round draft picks not meeting immediate needs? It is dumb. Take the best player available because he ain't playing much anyway.

Take AJ Klein, for example. Many of you griped about the pick. Consider this: He plays the same position Jon Beason plays. Beason is the highest paid MLB in the NFL and he cannot beat out the MLB on his own team. He is overpaid. He would not renegotiate his contract. Gettlemen is not going to overpay. Klein is a good LB. So, next year, when cutting Beason is a bit more doable, we have Klein, a SLB with a year of NFL experience--already knows the system. Klein was chosen for 2014 (and special teams). He was the BPA.

The same rule applies to Barner. Another RB??!!! However, DWill is probably a June 1 cut, which will clear up cap room. So drafting Barner allows us to clear cap room, get rid of a 30-year old back who has not run for a 1000 yards since he was 27, and it gives the offense options. We have a bull (Tolbert), a workhorse (Stewart), and a scat back (Barner). We also have a RB we can stash on the PS who is pretty good (Poole). Where is the bad business? Cleaning up Marty's mess and getting better. The savings from DWill's $$ alone will nearly pay all of the drafted rookies.

3. Gettlemen listens. He took advice from the coaches and didn't take players who were not good fits. Hurney went against coaches when he took Clausen and Eric Norwood. Norwood was as pure a 3-4 guy as they come. He did not listen.

So, we might draft to fill immediate needs early in the draft (as we did last week) but it is stupid to draft late rounders to fill immediate needs. So quit griping about it! (some of you).. How did Norman work out last year? Fua? McClain? You are adding one or two starters a year--the rest are for the future, so forget immediate needs--draft for value and the future. Our new Guard will probalby suck for a year--but his upside is unreal. Sorry some can't see this. Do this long enough, and we will have so much depth, the draft will change its meaning to the Panthers.

We had a great draft, at least the strategy was terrific.


You are all over it. Thank you
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UKpantherfan


Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 167
Location: Newcastle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the most intelligent posts I've ever seen on here.

Well said and fully valid points.

Refreshing.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 30084
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Great post.

I think a lot of the negativity boils down to impatience. Its a process. Trust that the new chief has done his due diligence. Give it some time. Allow him to prove he is an idiot. Don't jump to that conclusion based on a couple picks.
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Toughguy77


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 2097
Location: South Cackalack
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Gettleman knows a hell of a lot more than any of us when it comes to picks in the draft. I have faith in the players he decided to go with. As for my opinion on how it all went down goes like this. The first two picks we had at DT were great, we obviously had a big whole there and now its one of our better strengths if Star and Short can show up.I believe not having a third round pick was a pretty big kidney punch. Many players we wanted got snagged either a few pick before were we would have been or a few after.

The three last picks were head scratches, a reach for a D2 OG, another ILB (after we signed Blackburn this past offseason), and another RB.

OG- Gettleman saw something he really liked about this kid so I can't disagree to a certain extent.

ILB- More depth at LB isn't a bad thing since two of our outside are injury prone.

RB- Kids got great speed and was projected to be a 3-4th round draft pick. I believe Stewart will take him under his wing and mentor him to be a stud after DWill is gone.
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fretgod99


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I view Klein as less of an ILB and more of a utility LB. He'll hopefully be a solid fill-in wherever (though likely more SLB and MLB). He'll be a good special teams guy, if nothing else, and decent enough in spot duty.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
I view Klein as less of an ILB and more of a utility LB. He'll hopefully be a solid fill-in wherever (though likely more SLB and MLB). He'll be a good special teams guy, if nothing else, and decent enough in spot duty.


I feel that he's going to be our Jason Phillips this year and basically do whatever we ask him to do.
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faccda01


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 4036
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very well said to the OP. Couldn't agree more. The beginning of the draft addressed a major need, and turned it into a potential strength. The end of the draft was more of Gettleman cleaning up Hurney's mess. He drafted depth at positions where we have players that are eating our cap up.

Now we have the ability to keep Beason/Williams in starting roles this year, and replace them next year with guys that have already had a year in the system. This is a much better approach then scrambling to replace lost players in FA, like we did this year with DB.

Again, DB is still a weakness, but it is a much easier weakness to mask than DT, as we have seen time and time again. When the run D is so good, the DBs can play off the line more and focus on the passing game.

It takes a foundation to build a house, not a roof. Thats how the Panthers approached the draft this year.
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Impulser12000


Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 2347
Location: SO CAL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
I view Klein as less of an ILB and more of a utility LB. He'll hopefully be a solid fill-in wherever (though likely more SLB and MLB). He'll be a good special teams guy, if nothing else, and decent enough in spot duty.


agree^^ i had the same initial negative reaction when we drafted beason (we had dan morgan) and then when we drated kuechly (we had beason td and anderson) if those and the last couple of year have shown me anything is that you can't have too many solid lbs. better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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BringinDaPain


Joined: 26 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those that disliked the Barner pick. Let's look at it this way. Had you rather trade/cut DWill or lose Hardy? We could use some of the money from DWill to go toward Hardy's contract we need to give him before he leaves.
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wallde24


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In no way do I consider myself to be a expert or know all the ins and outs of the league. I like what Gettleman is doing, but I do have two questions.
1. Why not Margus Hunt in the second instead of Short? He can play all over the DL and was a physical freak.
2. Why not Barret Jones over Edmund? He seems far more accomplished and NFL ready
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 25292
Location: FSU: Go Noles
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wallde24 wrote:
In no way do I consider myself to be a expert or know all the ins and outs of the league. I like what Gettleman is doing, but I do have two questions.
1. Why not Margus Hunt in the second instead of Short? He can play all over the DL and was a physical freak.
2. Why not Barret Jones over Edmund? He seems far more accomplished and NFL ready


1. We are set at DE. Hunt would be a DE primarily. Gettleman coveted Short and loved his pass rushing abilities to counter with Star.
2. Jones has reached his ceiling. They preferred a higher ceiling in round 4.
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Moody


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of our draft overall. Gettleman could fix this entire team with 1st and 2nd round picks. Star was hardly a choice, so people are ultimately upset about him not picking S/WR/CB in the second round. Dwan is only on a 1-year deal so we would've been shopping for a new DT if Short hadn't been picked.



As some have said, if you take a position of weakness and turn it into a strength, you had a good draft. I think we also made the defense's strengths even stronger. I'm really excited that we have three deep at both DE and DT now. They could quickly become the best in the league.


I like the Barner pick. I hope he works out.
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