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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7908
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
chitownstar wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
chitownstar wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
You cannot just move people to C it is a difficult position to at especially for guys who are tall and trying to pick it up at the NFL level.

Instead of trying to force some value out of Carimi we just move on and draft a C of the future next season.
Amen Windy, Amen. Cut bait and move on, we're moving on from the Bears most recent first round bust. I say you give him the camp to try and beat out Slauson, and after he proves he can't you cut him and let him get started on using his degree that he thankfully earned.
Another team will sign him.


You can't just cut a guy like Carimi, he still has too much potential to just let go of. He's coming off some injuries and needs to stay healthy in order to just get better. There no questioning that he has the talent to play RT or RG in the NFL, he just has to get his feet under him. He's 24 going on 25 and just starting his 3rd year in the league with only 10 or so starts under his belt. I'd give him at least one more season.
It is not the easy decisions which make a great leader. Cutting Carimi will be very difficult but might be one of those things which has to be done.

I am not convinced he is entirely healthy yet which makes this decision even more complex. I'm thinking IR might be the solution to this dilemma. Then tender him and at least get a supplementary picks should he be signed which he almost certainly will.

This is like the Columbo and Williams decision. With Columbo we bailed after three wasted years and THEN he was a starter for five years. With Williams we waited and he hasn't done anything since. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.


To me Gabe would give us more value as a back-up/role player/prospect than he would if we were to tender then trade him. He is entering the 3rd year of a 4 year deal that he signed when he was drafted. He's due 1.9 mil this season and 2.2 next season but If we were able to re-negotiate to add some years and lower his cap number I would be in favor of keeping him.
And again, just like the Marquess Wilson arguement, who are you keeping him over? If he can't play, he can't play. I don't want to hear the injury excuse. There's been plenty of people that have come back from injury waaaaaaaaaay too early and haven't failed to be at least competitive. Carimi is not. He can't play. And the thing is, its not like he hasn't shown here exactly what he showed at college either. He's the exact same player I evaluated 3 years ago.
This is a mess. Ordinarily I can't see him being in the Bears' plans given their draft but will it cost them too much to let him go? If they do keep him I don't expect to see him suited up much on game days. How much more will it cost to have him on the team than to just cut him?
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7908
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chitownstar wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
chitownstar wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
You cannot just move people to C it is a difficult position to at especially for guys who are tall and trying to pick it up at the NFL level.

Instead of trying to force some value out of Carimi we just move on and draft a C of the future next season.
Amen Windy, Amen. Cut bait and move on, we're moving on from the Bears most recent first round bust. I say you give him the camp to try and beat out Slauson, and after he proves he can't you cut him and let him get started on using his degree that he thankfully earned.
Another team will sign him.


You can't just cut a guy like Carimi, he still has too much potential to just let go of. He's coming off some injuries and needs to stay healthy in order to just get better. There no questioning that he has the talent to play RT or RG in the NFL, he just has to get his feet under him. He's 24 going on 25 and just starting his 3rd year in the league with only 10 or so starts under his belt. I'd give him at least one more season.
It is not the easy decisions which make a great leader. Cutting Carimi will be very difficult but might be one of those things which has to be done.

I am not convinced he is entirely healthy yet which makes this decision even more complex. I'm thinking IR might be the solution to this dilemma. Then tender him and at least get a supplementary picks should he be signed which he almost certainly will.

This is like the Columbo and Williams decision. With Columbo we bailed after three wasted years and THEN he was a starter for five years. With Williams we waited and he hasn't done anything since. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.


To me Gabe would give us more value as a back-up/role player/prospect than he would if we were to tender then trade him. He is entering the 3rd year of a 4 year deal that he signed when he was drafted. He's due 1.9 mil this season and 2.2 next season but If we were able to re-negotiate to add some years and lower his cap number I would be in favor of keeping him.
The problem with that is: he is just hanging on by a fingernail so extending him is not really an option. If he were not going to be such a cap hit should we cut him I don't think there is a chance he would make the team.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Chrissy Williams all over again. Don't try and force value out of a 1st round pick.

If Carimi was a 4th round pick would we be trying so hard to make him into something?
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AZBearsFan


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Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
This is Chrissy Williams all over again. Don't try and force value out of a 1st round pick.

If Carimi was a 4th round pick would we be trying so hard to make him into something?

I think it all goes down to the thing we have discussed about this several times in that we don't know if Gabe was healthy last year or not and that if he was not healthy last year he probably deserves another chance but if he was healthy and stunk up the joint last year then he probably should just be gone.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 53:

QB Cutler, McCown
RB Forte, Bush, Allen
WR Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett, Weems, Wilson*, Hester
TE Bennett, Rodriguez, Maneri, Adams
OT Bushrod, Webb, Mills, Scott
OG Long, Slauson, Brown
C Garza, Williams

DE Peppers, Wootton, McClellin, Washington, Moore
DT Melton, Paea, Collins, Fluellen
OLB Briggs, Anderson, Greene, Thomas
MLB Williams, Bostic, Castonzo
CB Tillman, Jennings, Hayden, Bowman, Frey
S Conte, Wright, Hardin, Steltz, Walters

K Gould
P Podlesh
LS Mannelly

*Picked Wilson over Anderson solely because he's a draft pick of this regime and because I count at least 13 guys who should contribute on ST coverage teams even if Wilson gives you nothing there.
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I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7908
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
This is Chrissy Williams all over again. Don't try and force value out of a 1st round pick.

If Carimi was a 4th round pick would we be trying so hard to make him into something?
That may well be true but I think we should have waited till after the season to cut Williams. It turned out we could have used him after the injuries hit bad.
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Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 7203
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 18655
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool


Who said Jon Bostic is a project? Long is a project but that doesnt mean he wont be starting. Nothing wrong with McClellin being a backup. He adds pass rush. The guy who made the Gabe Carimi pick is gone. Whats your point Badger?
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Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool


Who said Jon Bostic is a project? Long is a project but that doesnt mean he wont be starting. Nothing wrong with McClellin being a backup. He adds pass rush. The guy who made the Gabe Carimi pick is gone. Whats your point Badger?


Whats your point Badger? Umm, most NFL teams make #1 picks that are immediate contributors. Can't miss players. 2011 is a goner, 2012 is a backup and 2013 is starting out of position. Teams with lofty expectations don't make #1 picks that turn out like that. Cool
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool


Who said Jon Bostic is a project? Long is a project but that doesnt mean he wont be starting. Nothing wrong with McClellin being a backup. He adds pass rush. The guy who made the Gabe Carimi pick is gone. Whats your point Badger?


Whats your point Badger? Umm, most NFL teams make #1 picks that are immediate contributors. Can't miss players. 2011 is a goner, 2012 is a backup and 2013 is starting out of position. Teams with lofty expectations don't make #1 picks that turn out like that. Cool


Jerry Angelo was fired. Shea could start eventually. But being a backup last year was the best place for him.He wasnt ready to start but he still contributed to the pass rush. Kyle Long is not starting out of position.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22673
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool


Who said Jon Bostic is a project? Long is a project but that doesnt mean he wont be starting. Nothing wrong with McClellin being a backup. He adds pass rush. The guy who made the Gabe Carimi pick is gone. Whats your point Badger?


Whats your point Badger? Umm, most NFL teams make #1 picks that are immediate contributors. Can't miss players. 2011 is a goner, 2012 is a backup and 2013 is starting out of position. Teams with lofty expectations don't make #1 picks that turn out like that. Cool


What now?...Plenty of teams take guys who are not expected to be immediate contributors in the 1st round and even more take guys who aren’t expected to be immediate starters…for example just look at the Vikings draft from this year…Xavier Rhodes should start at the #2 CB position…but is Sherriff Floyd starting at UT over Kevin Williams? Highly doubtful…is Cordarrelle Patterson anything more than a high upside project? No…so only 33% of the Vikings 1st round picks are definite starters or not long term projects.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is Kyle Long and Jon Bostic start this season.

As for Shea he would be starting, but Wootton stepped up in a big way. I mean damn I hate when former 4th round picks step up and get 8 sacks what a terrible thing to happen.

Shea will start when Peppers is gone.
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Selkiesxx


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool

Do you ever add anything useful to discussions, ever?
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Slaymont Harris


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nickle corners, nickle pass rushers, and slot receivers are immediate contributors, they just aren't designated as starters. A SLB is designated a starter even if he only sees the field on 60% of the snaps during the season. The important thing is the number of snaps.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7908
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
#1 pick for 2011 Gabe Carimi who seldom started and is predicted to be gone.

#1 pick 2012 Shea McClellin is predicted as a backup.

#1 pick 2013 Kyle Long is said to be a project while #2 pick Jon Bostic is as well.

Who is making these picks? Cool


Who said Jon Bostic is a project? Long is a project but that doesnt mean he wont be starting. Nothing wrong with McClellin being a backup. He adds pass rush. The guy who made the Gabe Carimi pick is gone. Whats your point Badger?


Whats your point Badger? Umm, most NFL teams make #1 picks that are immediate contributors. Can't miss players. 2011 is a goner, 2012 is a backup and 2013 is starting out of position. Teams with lofty expectations don't make #1 picks that turn out like that. Cool


What now?...Plenty of teams take guys who are not expected to be immediate contributors in the 1st round and even more take guys who aren’t expected to be immediate starters…for example just look at the Vikings draft from this year…Xavier Rhodes should start at the #2 CB position…but is Sherriff Floyd starting at UT over Kevin Williams? Highly doubtful…is Cordarrelle Patterson anything more than a high upside project? No…so only 33% of the Vikings 1st round picks are definite starters or not long term projects.
All you have to do to be a "starter" is be on the field on the first play so I expect Patterson to start. Minnesota has terrible WRs.

It is not even usual for our first rounders or rookies to start. That is why I am skeptical that our new LBs will. Long likely will.
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