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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7830
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, do some of the smarter draft/prospect brains on here know of the more athletic LT's in this draft? TT has become more predictable IMO and I really see us going n after an athletic LT whether it's to play LT or RT, Teddy has been going after premium positions and doingh it early and often. Guys who kill QB's and guys who protect them. I think we have seen him take some pretty athletic guys on both sides of the line. I think somebody, maybe Possiblecabbage posted the combine #'s guideline.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two rounds into a 2014 Mock
1 Cornelius Lucas LT Kansas State
2 Jeff Mathews QB Cornell
3
4
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dijatool


Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Posts: 352
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
Two rounds into a 2014 Mock
1 Cornelius Lucas LT Kansas State
2 Jeff Mathews QB Cornell

Wow. Mathews only played one year of HS Varsity and while he got a lot of local press, Camarillo lost both of their games against upper level competition and he was kind of shaky.

Good for him!
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justo


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dijatool wrote:
justo wrote:
Two rounds into a 2014 Mock
1 Cornelius Lucas LT Kansas State
2 Jeff Mathews QB Cornell

Wow. Mathews only played one year of HS Varsity and while he got a lot of local press, Camarillo lost both of their games against upper level competition and he was kind of shaky.

Good for him!
That probably explains why he had to go the Ivy League route. The kid's really, really good. I've been talking to a couple guys about their sites, and just about everyone has Mathews or Fales as their #1 Sr QB. People say his coaches talk up his mental side of the game up a lot.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Matthews a lot (more than Fales certainly), but I don't know if I can get behind drafting a backup QB in the 2nd round. I mean, yes Graham Harrell is terrible, but I have hope for B.J. Coleman and a S, WR, TE, or LB would probably help more than a backup QB.

Can't blame Justo for not taking a safety though (and if you're not drafting juniors it's hard to justify a WR or TE high.)
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justo


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I like Matthews a lot (more than Fales certainly), but I don't know if I can get behind drafting a backup QB in the 2nd round. I mean, yes Graham Harrell is terrible, but I have hope for B.J. Coleman and a S, WR, TE, or LB would probably help more than a backup QB.

Can't blame Justo for not taking a safety though (and if you're not drafting juniors it's hard to justify a WR or TE high.)
Yup, three TE's went off the board between my 1st and 2nd round picks. The best WR on the board (as far as Sr's go) was probably Ryan Grant (James Jones's WR coach at SJSU is coaching him at Tulane, FWIW). There wasn't really a Sr S that stood out to me, either. Just ended up going BPA after I couldn't trade down. I think there's a TE I can steal in the 3rd. He's flying way under the radar because he doesn't play in a BCS conference. For some reason, TE's and S's from non-BCS schools seem to be underrated every pre-season.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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Location: SNJ
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
A couple, not so highly talked about guys to watch:

Ryan Russell - Purdue- 5-tech
Bruce Gaston - Purdue - 3/5-tech
Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota - 5-tech
Matthias Farley - Notre Dame - Safety
Prince Shembo - Notre Dame - OLB
Adrian Amos - Penn State - CB/S
??? I hear about him all the time
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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
Quote:
NCPackFan wrote:

justo wrote:

HyponGrey wrote:
To break down position of need IMO, contracts up in 2014:
TE
Jermichael Finley
Matthew Mulligan
Andrew Quarless
FS
Morgan Burnett
M.D. Jennings
DL
Ryan Pickett
B.J. Raji
Michael Neal
C.J. Wilson
C
Evan Dietrich-Smith
WR
James Jones
CB
Sam Shields
ST
Jamari Lattimore
Rob Francois

Depth at either strong side LB would be nice too.
1) They are working on a long-term deal with Shields, so I would assume that when he comes back, it's going to be more than just for 2013.

2)I think Morgan Burnett, B.J. Raji, and maybe Evan Dietrich-Smith are "must bring back" guys.


That's a pretty good list from Hyp, but I gotta say that Raji and Burnett are much more important than EDS. EDS is a stop-gap at this point, if he can develop into a solid player at C this year, then we bring him back. I just don't see that happening and I think we could do better.
Things changed when Tretter went down, IMO. If EDS is gone, then what?


Looking ahead to the 2014 draft, expiring contracts after the 2013 season and the 2014 season. TT is always looking ahead. That means that WR and CB come into play with Jones/Nelson/Cobbs and T Williams.

On top of that there is the recovery from injuries for many players (Bishop, Bulaga, Sherrod).

Lots of time for things to play out and contracts to be extended or not.


With House, Heyward, Shields and (who knows?) maybe Hyde breathing down his neck and guys like Raji, Burnett, Neal, Jordy, Finley, etc's deals expiring, Tramon might be expendable, especially if he continues to play as unspiring as he has the last couple of years since coming off of that shoulder injury. I hate to say it, but he may never be the same player again after that, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Plus, think about who we have behind the players we could potentially end up letting their deals expire. We have House, Heyward, Shields, all starting-caliber CBs, behind Tramon, and plus we still haven't seen what Micha Hyde brings to the table yet (I still think we gave the Eagles a gift by taking him over Jordan Poyer who was still around in the 5th, though). OTOH, we lose Raji and/or Burnett, and who do we have to fill in? I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd rather use that 1st round pick to improve the overall roster from the year before rather than use it to replace a guy we had (I know the Vikes did it, drafting Rhodes and Patterson to simply replace Winfield and Harvin, but they also added new talent elsewhere, so it's a net gain).

Also, here's what I have so far for a 2014 mock, mind you, this is using my best estimate of where I think each guy will go with the 2013 season having not even started yet, so chances are I'll be way off on a lot of these:

1-WR Sammy Watkins
2-DT/NT Daniel McCullers (much-needed depth behind Raji/Pickett at NT)
3-(comp pick*)-TE Eric Ebron (security blanket for losing Finley or possibly using in 2 TE sets with him if we can somehow stick with him beyond 2013)
3-ILB Shayne Skov
4-S Ty Zimmerman (security blanket at S in case McMillian disappoints)

If the 1st 4 rounds go anything remotely like this, I'll go nuts.

*NOTE: I'm ASSUMING we'll get a 3rd for Jennings, that might be wistful thinking, though, we might just get a 4th for him.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 3691
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave it to KMan to put the comp pick before our actual 3rd rounder. #bestmocksnub

KManX89 wrote:
With House, Heyward, Shields and (who knows?) maybe Hyde breathing down his neck and guys like Raji, Burnett, Neal, Jordy, Finley, etc's deals expiring, Tramon might be expendable, especially if he continues to play as unspiring as he has the last couple of years since coming off of that shoulder injury. I hate to say it, but he may never be the same player again after that, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Plus, think about who we have behind the players we could potentially end up letting their deals expire. We have House, Heyward, Shields, all starting-caliber CBs, behind Tramon, and plus we still haven't seen what Micha Hyde brings to the table yet (I still think we gave the Eagles a gift by taking him over Jordan Poyer who was still around in the 5th, though). OTOH, we lose Raji and/or Burnett, and who do we have to fill in? I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd rather use that 1st round pick to improve the overall roster from the year before rather than use it to replace a guy we had (I know the Vikes did it, drafting Rhodes and Patterson to simply replace Winfield and Harvin, but they also added new talent elsewhere, so it's a net gain).
Very much this, though I don't ever expect much from Hyde
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12951
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KManX89 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
Quote:
NCPackFan wrote:

justo wrote:

HyponGrey wrote:
To break down position of need IMO, contracts up in 2014:
TE
Jermichael Finley
Matthew Mulligan
Andrew Quarless
FS
Morgan Burnett
M.D. Jennings
DL
Ryan Pickett
B.J. Raji
Michael Neal
C.J. Wilson
C
Evan Dietrich-Smith
WR
James Jones
CB
Sam Shields
ST
Jamari Lattimore
Rob Francois

Depth at either strong side LB would be nice too.
1) They are working on a long-term deal with Shields, so I would assume that when he comes back, it's going to be more than just for 2013.

2)I think Morgan Burnett, B.J. Raji, and maybe Evan Dietrich-Smith are "must bring back" guys.


That's a pretty good list from Hyp, but I gotta say that Raji and Burnett are much more important than EDS. EDS is a stop-gap at this point, if he can develop into a solid player at C this year, then we bring him back. I just don't see that happening and I think we could do better.
Things changed when Tretter went down, IMO. If EDS is gone, then what?


Looking ahead to the 2014 draft, expiring contracts after the 2013 season and the 2014 season. TT is always looking ahead. That means that WR and CB come into play with Jones/Nelson/Cobbs and T Williams.

On top of that there is the recovery from injuries for many players (Bishop, Bulaga, Sherrod).

Lots of time for things to play out and contracts to be extended or not.


With House, Heyward, Shields and (who knows?) maybe Hyde breathing down his neck and guys like Raji, Burnett, Neal, Jordy, Finley, etc's deals expiring, Tramon might be expendable, especially if he continues to play as unspiring as he has the last couple of years since coming off of that shoulder injury. I hate to say it, but he may never be the same player again after that, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Plus, think about who we have behind the players we could potentially end up letting their deals expire. We have House, Heyward, Shields, all starting-caliber CBs, behind Tramon, and plus we still haven't seen what Micha Hyde brings to the table yet (I still think we gave the Eagles a gift by taking him over Jordan Poyer who was still around in the 5th, though). OTOH, we lose Raji and/or Burnett, and who do we have to fill in? I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd rather use that 1st round pick to improve the overall roster from the year before rather than use it to replace a guy we had (I know the Vikes did it, drafting Rhodes and Patterson to simply replace Winfield and Harvin, but they also added new talent elsewhere, so it's a net gain).

Also, here's what I have so far for a 2014 mock, mind you, this is using my best estimate of where I think each guy will go with the 2013 season having not even started yet, so chances are I'll be way off on a lot of these:

1-WR Sammy Watkins
2-DT/NT Daniel McCullers (much-needed depth behind Raji/Pickett at NT)
3 (comp pick*)-TE Eric Ebron (security blanket for losing Finley or possibly using in 2 TE sets with him if we can somehow stick with him beyond 2013)
3-ILB Shayne Skov
4-S Ty Zimmerman (security blanket at S in case McMillian disappoints)

If the 1st 4 rounds go anything remotely like this, I'll go nuts.

*NOTE: I'm ASSUMING we'll get a 3rd for Jennings, that might be wistful thinking, though, we might just get a 4th for him.

1) Ebron is a Finley clone
2) Isn't Zimmerman being talked about as the top senior S? I doubt he's there in the 4th, if so.

One TE I really like is Justin Jones.

ECU plays a lot of 4 wide pistol, so there's not much room for a TE. Because of that, Jones isn't used much.

Still puts up numbers when he gets the ball, though:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/482976/justin-jones

He was hurt for a lot of 2011, but he had 6 catches for 4 scores. He's 6'8" 277....so he's going to be a redzone threat. He can actually block, too. There's coaches film on Youtube of him. I was impressed by his pass blocking for a "tight end/inside receiver".

ECU's site wrote:
Earned "iron" level designation during the off-season strength and conditioning testing period ... Top lift was a 1,251-wattage effort in the jerk and also turned in jumps of 33.5" (vertical) and 9'1.5 (broad) ... Despite size, is an agile athlete as evidenced by efforts in the long shuttle (12) and three-cone drill (7.28).


While the three-cone isn't great, it's a little faster than Q and D.J. Williams. Broad wasn't great either, but his vertical is good. Not sure how to even judge the long shuttle, tbh.


Catching a game winning Hail Mary as a freshman

Coaches film of an ECU OL (shows a lot of Justin Jones's snaps):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-a3NsBVxhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UszZ7B9VlYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aTlTkn_qNw



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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 1647
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
Leave it to KMan to put the comp pick before our actual 3rd rounder. #bestmocksnub

KManX89 wrote:
With House, Heyward, Shields and (who knows?) maybe Hyde breathing down his neck and guys like Raji, Burnett, Neal, Jordy, Finley, etc's deals expiring, Tramon might be expendable, especially if he continues to play as unspiring as he has the last couple of years since coming off of that shoulder injury. I hate to say it, but he may never be the same player again after that, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Plus, think about who we have behind the players we could potentially end up letting their deals expire. We have House, Heyward, Shields, all starting-caliber CBs, behind Tramon, and plus we still haven't seen what Micha Hyde brings to the table yet (I still think we gave the Eagles a gift by taking him over Jordan Poyer who was still around in the 5th, though). OTOH, we lose Raji and/or Burnett, and who do we have to fill in? I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd rather use that 1st round pick to improve the overall roster from the year before rather than use it to replace a guy we had (I know the Vikes did it, drafting Rhodes and Patterson to simply replace Winfield and Harvin, but they also added new talent elsewhere, so it's a net gain).
Very much this, though I don't ever expect much from Hyde


It was a typo, accidentally put it a spot ahead and like I said, a 3rd round comp pick for Jennings sounds like wistful thinking, I guess it's possible we'll get a 3rd since it was a fairly hefty deal they signed him to, but in all likelihood, we'll probably end up just getting a 4th for him. 3rd rounders are only for "mega" deals like Mario Williams, Vincent Jackson, etc. And Ebron lasting until the 3rd sounds like wistful thinking, too, in all honesty since he's the 2nd highest rated TE in next year's class behind ASJ. MAYBE Skov will be there for us in the 3rd, if we're lucky. Then again, he's one of the higher-ranked players at his respective position in next year's class, too (which has now become a need for us, even if Jones/Manning pan out, we could still use some depth there now with Smith and Bishop gone), behind A.J. Johnson and C.J. Mosley (and possibly Andrew Jackson as well).
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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 1647
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
Quote:
NCPackFan wrote:

justo wrote:

HyponGrey wrote:
To break down position of need IMO, contracts up in 2014:
TE
Jermichael Finley
Matthew Mulligan
Andrew Quarless
FS
Morgan Burnett
M.D. Jennings
DL
Ryan Pickett
B.J. Raji
Michael Neal
C.J. Wilson
C
Evan Dietrich-Smith
WR
James Jones
CB
Sam Shields
ST
Jamari Lattimore
Rob Francois

Depth at either strong side LB would be nice too.
1) They are working on a long-term deal with Shields, so I would assume that when he comes back, it's going to be more than just for 2013.

2)I think Morgan Burnett, B.J. Raji, and maybe Evan Dietrich-Smith are "must bring back" guys.


That's a pretty good list from Hyp, but I gotta say that Raji and Burnett are much more important than EDS. EDS is a stop-gap at this point, if he can develop into a solid player at C this year, then we bring him back. I just don't see that happening and I think we could do better.
Things changed when Tretter went down, IMO. If EDS is gone, then what?


Looking ahead to the 2014 draft, expiring contracts after the 2013 season and the 2014 season. TT is always looking ahead. That means that WR and CB come into play with Jones/Nelson/Cobbs and T Williams.

On top of that there is the recovery from injuries for many players (Bishop, Bulaga, Sherrod).

Lots of time for things to play out and contracts to be extended or not.


With House, Heyward, Shields and (who knows?) maybe Hyde breathing down his neck and guys like Raji, Burnett, Neal, Jordy, Finley, etc's deals expiring, Tramon might be expendable, especially if he continues to play as unspiring as he has the last couple of years since coming off of that shoulder injury. I hate to say it, but he may never be the same player again after that, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Plus, think about who we have behind the players we could potentially end up letting their deals expire. We have House, Heyward, Shields, all starting-caliber CBs, behind Tramon, and plus we still haven't seen what Micha Hyde brings to the table yet (I still think we gave the Eagles a gift by taking him over Jordan Poyer who was still around in the 5th, though). OTOH, we lose Raji and/or Burnett, and who do we have to fill in? I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd rather use that 1st round pick to improve the overall roster from the year before rather than use it to replace a guy we had (I know the Vikes did it, drafting Rhodes and Patterson to simply replace Winfield and Harvin, but they also added new talent elsewhere, so it's a net gain).

Also, here's what I have so far for a 2014 mock, mind you, this is using my best estimate of where I think each guy will go with the 2013 season having not even started yet, so chances are I'll be way off on a lot of these:

1-WR Sammy Watkins
2-DT/NT Daniel McCullers (much-needed depth behind Raji/Pickett at NT)
3 (comp pick*)-TE Eric Ebron (security blanket for losing Finley or possibly using in 2 TE sets with him if we can somehow stick with him beyond 2013)
3-ILB Shayne Skov
4-S Ty Zimmerman (security blanket at S in case McMillian disappoints)

If the 1st 4 rounds go anything remotely like this, I'll go nuts.

*NOTE: I'm ASSUMING we'll get a 3rd for Jennings, that might be wistful thinking, though, we might just get a 4th for him.

1) Ebron is a Finley clone
2) Isn't Zimmerman being talked about as the top senior S? I doubt he's there in the 4th, if so.

One TE I really like is Justin Jones.

ECU plays a lot of 4 wide pistol, so there's not much room for a TE. Because of that, Jones isn't used much.

Still puts up numbers when he gets the ball, though:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/482976/justin-jones

He was hurt for a lot of 2011, but he had 6 catches for 4 scores. He's 6'8" 277....so he's going to be a redzone threat. He can actually block, too. There's coaches film on Youtube of him. I was impressed by his pass blocking for a "tight end/inside receiver".

ECU's site wrote:
Earned "iron" level designation during the off-season strength and conditioning testing period ... Top lift was a 1,251-wattage effort in the jerk and also turned in jumps of 33.5" (vertical) and 9'1.5 (broad) ... Despite size, is an agile athlete as evidenced by efforts in the long shuttle (12) and three-cone drill (7.2Cool.


While the three-cone isn't great, it's a little faster than Q and D.J. Williams. Broad wasn't great either, but his vertical is good. Not sure how to even judge the long shuttle, tbh.


Catching a game winning Hail Mary as a freshman

Coaches film of an ECU OL (shows a lot of Justin Jones's snaps):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-a3NsBVxhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UszZ7B9VlYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aTlTkn_qNw





I've seen Zimmerman projected anywhere from the 2nd to 4th round according to Walterfootball and in some other early 2014 mocks, but as always, his stock could soaringly rise during the year and he could be off the board sooner. Plus there were a BUNCH of guys in last year's draft class not expected to be around in the 4th (or later even) who were, i.e: Alex Okafor, Johnathan Franklin who we snagged, Jordan Poyer, Baccari Rambo, etc just to name a few. Then again, that was one of the deepest drafts in quite some time, I doubt that happens again with this year's class (or anytime soon).

My one and only concern with Zimmerman is, from what I understand, he played in a purely zone coverage scheme at Kansas, so there might be some growing pains with him in our D that plays a little bit of both coverage schemes (man and zone).
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12951
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GM draft results:

1-26 Cornelius Lucas LT Kansas State (1st rounder)

2-26 Jeff Mathews QB Cornell (best senior QB)

3-26 [traded for 4-8, 4-13]

4-8 (via Bills) Taylor Hart DE Oregon (fringe 1st rounder)

4-13 (via Bills) Ryan Grant WR Tulane (4th best WR, Day 2 pick)

4-26 Justin Jones TE East Carolina (4th best TE, Early Day 3 pick)
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7830
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all you guys that liked Matt Elam in this last draft, check out Isaiah Lewis from Michigan State. Reminds me some of Elam, not quite as punishing as Elam on those hits though.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12951
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In another 2014 mock...this is what I have to play with right now:
1-Hageman DT Minnesota (shouldn't have dropped to #28)
3 (Washington)
3
4 (Tampa Bay)
4
5 (Tampa Bay)
5 (Washington)
5
6 (Tampa Bay)
6
2015 2nd (Tampa Bay)
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