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Draft Recap Thread: Grades, Opinions, Highlights
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Initial overall draft grade
A
16%
 16%  [ 11 ]
B
64%
 64%  [ 43 ]
C
17%
 17%  [ 12 ]
D
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
F
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 67

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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11755
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Maybe Nolan Nowracki was right.

"Several NFL executives who spent "extensive time" with Jets rookie Geno Smith before the draft believe Smith faces significant NFL roadblocks because he's "tuned out" and fails to realize he doesn't know everything.
"I'm not sure he knows how to take instruction because he pretty much wouldn't listen or talk to our coaches," said the exec. "... You can't tell him anything right now. He's tuned out because he thinks he's got it all down." Another NFL exec questioned Smith's leadership ability. "He doesn't have much presence, not much of a leader. I don't think he's a bad person, but that's not enough to be a quarterback in this league." Per Yahoo's Jason Cole, Smith spent "much of his time on his cell phone" during pre-draft team visits. "All these other players who were in there were talking to the coaches, trying to get to know people and he was over there by himself," one source said. "That's not what you want out of your quarterback."


Sounds like a perfect match for the dysfunctional Jets!! LET THE PARTY BEGIN!!! Can't wait to hear ol Rexy boy talking this one up LOL

Too bad they didnt keep Tebow, then they can have the full 3 ring circus with Smith and Sanchez. lol


I said that to my girlfriend after they got Smith. I thought it would be a ton of fun watching them. Now it's only going to be 2/3's of the fun Sad
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sandwhich wrote:
3rd Round

Best Pick- LB Sio Moore. I have a man crush on this guy. In the Jets forums I chose him as my most sure to succeed player. Wanted him to fall to our pick so badly. He's versatile, explosive, and reads and reacts better than any OLB prospect in the draft. He's got the range and fluidity to play in coverage, and also the strength to disengage blockers. Sio Moore is going to be a good football player, and he is great value in the 3rd round. Honorable mention to OG Brian Winters, WR Terrance Williams


More draft kerfuffle on FF. The same thread has DJ Hayden as the worst pick in the 1st in the OP. The support for that opinion posted in there doesn't really make sense, but whatever.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My recap:

Hayden, will be a really good corner. His first step and break on the ball is as good as anyone out there.

Watson, if he can learn the techniques can be great. If not, will be a bit of a mess. It all boils down to his ability to take his multi sport training and learn the stances and movements of football.

Moore, not really seeing what everyone is raving about. His games are no better than what Burris looked like. Looks like a bit better Thomas Howard to me, can cover and rush, doesn't tackle that great and isn't very aggressive.

Wilson, no need to share my input, QBs will be whatever they become and it's covered in every thread anyway.

Kasa, I like it. Not as great a blocker as it would seem with the "blocking TE" label. But plenty as a pass catcher just like a Boss type. Some athleticism. It won't be long before he is the starter, but he is no Gronkowksi.

Rivera, not a physical blocker at all but he is not hideous as he uses some fundamentals. Actually much better a blocker than it is made to be. Handled Jarvis Jones reasonably well and played FB and did ok as a lead blocker. No better or worse than Reece in this aspect. Good pass catcher, runs like a fat WR.
Between the two of them I am pretty sure Ausberry or Gordon is gone. They're both better than those two in their all around game.

Murray, similar to McFadden in some ways. If you don't give him some blocking and space to move he will do nothing. He has a good burst and good size like McFadden, much less physical and not as fast at all. Without blocking he won't even do much. With blocking he will be a decent runner. Nothing here suggests an above average or great player.

McGee, just nothing to go on.

Butler, I actually liked what I saw of him. Think taller Streater. Has some body control, athleticism, a little wiggle, and makes NFL catches. Meaning, contested catches. I think he makes this team and contributes. Probably the guy in the whole draft that I think will become more than expected. Not the best necessarily, but the one who will exceed expectations the most.

David Bass, really hard to say. There's no vs. games of his out there and the competition level is weak. Does he bring exactly what you see to the NFL level? If so, he'll be great. If the raised competition negates his game, he'll be cut.

UDFAs who I think have a chance to make the team:

Conner Vernon, a reliable pass catcher.
Deonte Williams, Ahmad Bradshaw type - meaning tougher than size, slower than it would seem but not slow.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think bushell and definitely Lamar Mady can make the team as well
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
I think bushell and definitely Lamar Mady can make the team as well


There's just nothing out there as far as tape on them.
I watch the vs. games, which show every play in a particular game. If there's more than one I will watch others. And it's a pretty good indicator, if you pay attention to a guy every play and try to extrapolate where the differences in the pro game would be.

Mady and Bushell, there's just nothing out there on them. And nothing about them indicates to me they will be better than the guys in front of them now, but you never know.
Bushell has a real tough road ahead, because we are deep at corner now. Hayden, Porter, Jenkins, Hanson, Adams, Ross if he doesn't move to S. Assume those 5 will make it which is a safe assumption. Bushell better make his lunch on STs, or he won't make this team.

Mady has to get ahead of Nix, Brisiel, Bergstrom, maybe Barnes moving, Foster.
But all in all it looks like an easier road there than for Bushell, so it's a possibility. Our guards kinda suck looking at them...
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2013 NFL Draft Recap
What we learned:
Quote:

BPA & Sabermetrics: The Raiders will use a true BPA and will select from their big board with little regard to need. Sabermetrics is not just a tool for evaluation but also the suggested way to build a modern day NFL roster. One point of contention is the evaluation of CBs. Some subscribe to the value of position but many devalue it. It is of no surprise that Clinkscales, who came over from the Jets, values CBs highly.

Al Davis Lives: Up until this draft McKenzie has been very transparent and has consistently held true to his word in the media. However, this draft was starkly different than the last in terms of approach which can largely be attributed to the shake up in the scouting department.

McKenzie once told us that he will always value football players over athletes. However, the 2013 NFL Draft suggests a return the Al Davis philosophy of “coaching up” athletes with measureables with little regard to football awareness.

Character in Question: The McGee pick is by far the pick that I loathe the most. The reason being is that in one fell swoop by drafting McGee McKenzie’s premise that character will be a factor in the scouting process will come in serious question despite the fact McGee very well could be an anomaly selection and from this point forward character will still be factor for most draftees. Some will cite Mckenzie’s rumored infatuiation will Janoris Jenkins but I don’t deal in hypotheticals.

Foreign Connection: Obviously, after drafting players with European backgrounds in consecutive years McKenzie has no problem drafting players with backgrounds abroad.

Small School Connection: As has been suggested in the past, McKenzie has a place in his heart for small school prospects.


The Trade Down: The premise was correct and executed perfectly however the Raiders devalued the position.
Quote:
The New England Patriots acquired a huge haul of draft picks from the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday night in exchange for the No. 29 overall selection. On the other end of the spectrum: The Miami Dolphins' trade with the Oakland Raiders for the No. 3 overall pick.
One source told NFL.com's Albert Breer that the Dolphins believe they got to move up for "half price."
"I feel like everybody in the room was shocked,"
Dolphins owner Stephen Ross told The Miami Herald.
The Dolphins "only" gave up their No. 12 overall pick and the No. 42 overall selection in order to get Dion Jordan. According to the admittedly outdated "trade chart," the Dolphins got a steal.
In Oakland, the emotion was relief rather than elation, according to Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports. The Raiders planned to take cornerback D.J. Hayden all along. It was a surprise pick, and the Raiders knew they could get Hayden later in the first round.
Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie went into the draft desperate to acquire more picks, and he knew he would be criticized for grabbing Hayden so high without getting anything extra in return. The Raiders were just two minutes away from being "stuck" with Hayden at No. 3 before the Dolphins finished the deal.
McKenzie said he has "no doubt" that Hayden will be an impact player. If that's the case, this ultimately will be a win-win move. Silver said McKenzie is very much in "show me" territory as the Raiders try to rebuild. He's going to need some tangible results fast.
Finding a no-doubt impact player in the second round would go a long way.

Round 1, Pick 12 (12) – CB DJ Hayden

I could do a synopsis of Hayden’s measureables and instincts but it’s all been well covered. Beyond Hayden’s medicals the real concern is how Hayden will perform absent a pass rush and will the fanbase turn on Hayden and the FO that drafted him. The undervalued trade down and Hayden’s performance will ultimately be what defines McKenzie’s administration.

Imo, Hayden will struggle absent a pass rush and as a gambler will occasionally be burned badly. Gambler’s must make up for giving up big plays with interceptions however, ball skills is a skill set that Hayden currently doesn’t have and historically not a skill CBs develop later.

Draft Grade: C – Hayden is a decent prospect but he’ll be in a bad way absent a pass rush. I’ll be kicking myself dreaming of a DL with Richardson and Clowney on it.

• Round 1 Pick 13 (13) – DE Sheldon Richardson

I’m going to interject this pick as the irony of this quick selection by the Jets was not lost. I was as angry with this pick as Jet fans were for different reasons:


Quote:
Some pictures can say 1,000 words, other pictures just say two words, like this one -- and the two words seem to be shock and hate.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22139837/at-least-one-jets-fan-not-thrilled-with-sheldon-richardson-pick

Imo, Richardson is a 43 UT and will not find as much success as a 34 DE but apparently the Jets FO is really high on him and have already moved their best pass rusher Coples to OLB. WOW! Others project that the Jets will show significantly more 43 fronts because of Richardson.

Quote:
Jets selected Missouri DT Sheldon Richardson with the No. 13 overall pick.
Richardson has upside, but the pick is a head-scratcher. In dire need of offensive weapons and an edge rusher, the Jets go for a three-technique tackle. Richardson (6-foot-2 1/2, 294) is an explosive up-field rusher with tremendous suddenness off the ball. Perhaps the most athletic interior defensive lineman in the draft, Richardson even dropped into coverage at times for the Tigers. Richardson profiles as a suspect run defender, but could threaten for 5-7 sacks as a rookie. In 24 games at Mizzou, he reeled off 18.5 tackles for loss, six sacks, and four forced fumbles. He ran 5.02 at the Combine with a 1.77 ten-yard split and did 30 reps on the bench. It's just an odd fit on paper for the Jets. Apr 25 - 9:48 PM


The Jets also use BPA and drafted Richardson because they had him 4th on their big board.

Quote:
The mainstream draft gurus commonly had Richardson ranked behind Sharrif Floyd and Star Lotulelei at the Defensive Tackle position. However, several of the respected lesser known draft gurus like Bleacher Report’s Ryan Lownes had him ranked as the top defensive tackle in the draft and a top 5 pick. Obviously, the Jets shared the opinion of the lesser known draft analysts. Reports indicate that the Jets had Richardson ranked in their top 4 prospects and for good reason.


I’m tepid on Richardson as a 34 DE but I will also compare his career to Hayden’s.


Round 2, Pick 10 (42) OT Menelik Watson

I’ve scouted this prospect myself and created this gif.:
GIFSoup

I backed off Watson when I realized he was an older prospect with little football awareness. The best way to compare this pick is to compare Watson to OG Danny Watkins, who was also a foreign-born older prospect with great measureables and limited football awareness. Hopefully, Watson’s career will not emulate Watkin’s. Admittedly, I don’t have a reference on how best to implement Watson. DEs probably won’t blow by Watson with speed at RT but he will whiff when confused with stunts, shifts, etc. In addition, the Raiders are loaded at RG and Watson’s awareness is too low to be trusted at LG in pass protection.

Draft Grade: C – This pick flies in the face of McKenzie’s proclamation that the Raiders will draft “football players”.

Round 3, Pick 4 (66) OLB Sio Moore

Excellent measureables and versatility supported by college production. BPA selection rather than need. I have never broken down any film on Sio.

Draft Grade: B

Round 4, Pick 15 (112) QB Tyler Wilson

Excellent value based selection. Measureables aren’t ideal but Wilson boasts proven toughness, leadership and production. History of concussions is a concern. The Raiders actually liked Barkley more but I actually think Wilson is a better fit due to his toughness and vocal leadership.

Draft Grade: A

Round 6, Pick 4 (172) TE Nick Kasa

One dimensional blocking TE with upside.

Draft Grade: C

Round 6, Pick 13 (181) RB Latavius Murray

I have broken down Murray in the past. Imo, Murray doesn’t run as large as his measureables suggest. Murray doesn’t break enough tackles inside the tackle box nor does he run behind his pads. Murray isn’t a bruiser he is a tall sprinter with great straight line speed, tight hips and marginal lateral agility. You will not confuse Murray with similar tall HBs such as Michael Bush or Eddie George as he doesn’t run downhill. Murray’s upright running style begs defenders to hit him low.

Draft Grade: C

Round 6, Pick 16 (184) TE Mychal Rivera

One dimensional receiving WR/TE “tweener”.

Draft Grade: C – Which is not a bad grade at this point in the draft.

Round 6, Pick 37 (205) DT Stacy McGee

Low character prospect with great measureables but little college production.

Draft Grade: F – I have no idea why a rebuilding team would add a guy why is unprofessional at best or doesn’t love football at worst.

Round 7, Pick 3 (209) WR Brice Butler

Great measureables. Little production.

Draft Grade: C

Round 7, Pick 27 (233) DE David Bass

Small school prospect with long arms and tons of production. DE/OLB “tweener”.

Draft Grade: A – Many prospects opt for UDFA at this point to better control their situation. Coming from a small school getting drafted at all may have been a monumental event for his family.

Summary:
Quote:

The Good:
The trade down
Finding value at the QB position
Small school scouting
The Bad:
Over valuing the CB position
Passing on Sheldon Richardson
The Ugly
Devaluing the #3 position
Measureables > Actual football players – which McKenzie assured us he would not do.
Measureables > Actual production – Al Davis lives
DT – Stacy McGee
Watching Richardson go #13

Draft Grade Total: 2.3 - Back to back average drafts. meh.

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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how they haven't even played yet and it's an average draft
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
I love how they haven't even played yet and it's an average draft


Nah man its a bad draft. Haven't you been on NFL.com?
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be a good or bad draft before a game is played. It can only be one in 3 years though, thats all that matters. I think Bags write up was pretty spot on. Im a little higher on Haydn than him but other than that spot on. Good job Bagz.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
It can be a good or bad draft before a game is played. It can only be one in 3 years though, thats all that matters. I think Bags write up was pretty spot on. Im a little higher on Haydn than him but other than that spot on. Good job Bagz.


Meh.... his bias for Richardson gets old.

Richardson has 1 year of college production, but that doesn't seem to apply to him the way it does other prospects.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
It can be a good or bad draft before a game is played. It can only be one in 3 years though, thats all that matters. I think Bags write up was pretty spot on. Im a little higher on Haydn than him but other than that spot on. Good job Bagz.

I am a little higher on Hayden as well and at #12 I thought is was a good spot for him. Had we taken him at #3 I would have been more concerned but at #12 the only other guy I would have taken would have been Richardson.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
It can be a good or bad draft before a game is played. It can only be one in 3 years though, thats all that matters. I think Bags write up was pretty spot on. Im a little higher on Haydn than him but other than that spot on. Good job Bagz.


Meh.... his bias for Richardson gets old.

Richardson has 1 year of college production, but that doesn't seem to apply to him the way it does other prospects.


Yeah I agree. Im not that high in richardson as he is either. But his write up on Mck and how he drafts and picks was pretty good to me.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
It can be a good or bad draft before a game is played. It can only be one in 3 years though, thats all that matters. I think Bags write up was pretty spot on. Im a little higher on Haydn than him but other than that spot on. Good job Bagz.


Meh.... his bias for Richardson gets old.

Richardson has 1 year of college production, but that doesn't seem to apply to him the way it does other prospects.


Am I bias for Clowney as well or is he just a great prospect? In retrospect, there were a number of teams that had Richardson rated higher on their big board than Floyd. Imo, the Raiders interest in Floyd was a rouse from the beginning.

I was also extremely high on Ngata. Was I bias then or just lucky he panned out? I said Richardson should go around #13 like similar prospects I compared him to like Nick Fairley and that's exactly where he went. Conversely, YOUR boy Floyd dropped like a rock in the draft despite your assessment of his skills.

Imo, bias is the result of analysis corrupted by emotion or the denial of statistical facts. JaMarcus Russell has numerous serious red flags before the draft there went ignored yet he still has apologists. TeePee has numerous technical flaws yet he has a rabid fan fase despite the fact none of the NFL experts are asking why he isn't playing and draft pundits cite QB as a position of need. Admittedly 2013 was a weak draft and Richardson does have some red flags which I noted however, Floyd has some serious red flags such as lack of production and short arms yet I am bias and you are not???
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
It can be a good or bad draft before a game is played. It can only be one in 3 years though, thats all that matters. I think Bags write up was pretty spot on. Im a little higher on Haydn than him but other than that spot on. Good job Bagz.


Meh.... his bias for Richardson gets old.

Richardson has 1 year of college production, but that doesn't seem to apply to him the way it does other prospects.


Am I bias for Clowney as well or is he just a great prospect? In retrospect, there were a number of teams that had Richardson rated higher on their big board than Floyd. Imo, the Raiders interest in Floyd was a rouse from the beginning.

I was also extremely high on Ngata. Was I bias then or just lucky he panned out? I said Richardson should go around #13 like similar prospects I compared him to like Nick Fairley and that's exactly where he went. Conversely, YOUR boy Floyd dropped like a rock in the draft despite your assessment of his skills.

Imo, bias is the result of analysis corrupted by emotion or the denial of statistical facts. JaMarcus Russell has numerous serious red flags before the draft there went ignored yet he still has apologists. TeePee has numerous technical flaws yet he has a rabid fan fase despite the fact none of the NFL experts are asking why he isn't playing and draft pundits cite QB as a position of need. Admittedly 2013 was a weak draft and Richardson does have some red flags which I noted however, Floyd has some serious red flags such as lack of production and short arms yet I am bias and you are not???


"My boy" when I never favored drafting Floyd? I never suggested he be my choice for the Raiders to pick. So there is no emotion there. I just argued he's a good prospect and time will show that.

Your bias for Richardson is that you'd have taken him over any player in this class unless I'm mistaken?

Your rant against Hayden is fueled by emotion over not selecting "your boy" Richardson it seems. But that's just my perspective.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Your bias for Richardson is that you'd have taken him over any player in this class unless I'm mistaken?

Your rant against Hayden is fueled by emotion over not selecting "your boy" Richardson it seems. But that's just my perspective.


Not just yours. No offense Bagga, but I don't know how you can deny it. You went to do a write up for the Raiders draft and ended up talking about Richardson more than any other pick. About the same amount as 8 of our 10 picks combined.

I personally don't care because I'm grateful for the attention to detail in some parts of the write up. But thats just something I noticed. Appreciate the overall effort though
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