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5th Round (159): Micah Hyde, CB, Iowa
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Hawkeyes season ticket holder, Hyde should be a safety. He could work as a cornerback, but he should be a safety.

I could see him being used at both positions though too.
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Beast


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.
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blankman0021


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.


Unless they are looking to clear Bush's cap space, no way does a rookie mid/late rounder come in and start over Bush. Bush isn't that good, but he isn't that bad either.
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Beast


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
Beast wrote:
From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.


Unless they are looking to clear Bush's cap space, no way does a rookie mid/late rounder come in and start over Bush. Bush isn't that good, but he isn't that bad either.


First off, Packers normally seem to look two to four year down the road... not first year...

Secondly Bush really isn't making that much (NFL wise), so I'm not sure why they would really care about clearing his contract if he's one of the best 53.

Bush's contract:
2013: $1.35 million,
2014: $1.6 million,
2015: Free Agent


If you wanted to get rid of a DBs contract it would be Tramon Williams...

Williams's contract:
2013: $5.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2014: $6.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2015: Free Agent

(they might be able to resign two lesser starters with that kind of money, or maybe one bigger one)...

Shields, Raji, Burnett, Bulaga, D-Smith, etc...


If Williams doesn't win a starting CB job he might be asked to take a pay cut (and/or straight up cut... not sure if someone would want him with that contract in a trade)...
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blankman0021


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Beast wrote:
From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.


Unless they are looking to clear Bush's cap space, no way does a rookie mid/late rounder come in and start over Bush. Bush isn't that good, but he isn't that bad either.


First off, Packers normally seem to look two to four year down the road... not first year...

Secondly Bush really isn't making that much (NFL wise), so I'm not sure why they would really care about clearing his contract if he's one of the best 53.

Bush's contract:
2013: $1.35 million,
2014: $1.6 million,
2015: Free Agent


If you wanted to get rid of a DBs contract it would be Tramon Williams...

Williams's contract:
2013: $5.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2014: $6.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2015: Free Agent

(they might be able to resign two lesser starters with that kind of money, or maybe one bigger one)...

Shields, Raji, Burnett, Bulaga, D-Smith, etc...


If Williams doesn't win a starting CB job he might be asked to take a pay cut (and/or straight up cut... not sure if someone would want him with that contract in a trade)...


I completely agree with your last post. In your first I thought you were suggesting Hyde as the dime back. I was saying that I don't think he'd play that fast.

Food for thought... Bush is getting paid good money for reserve DB/Gunner. If anybody is a better gunner he could be a casualty. As for Twill- if he isn't our #1 he'll be getting paid too much. I think he'll be our #1 though...
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The Kuhn


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Beast wrote:
From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.


Unless they are looking to clear Bush's cap space, no way does a rookie mid/late rounder come in and start over Bush. Bush isn't that good, but he isn't that bad either.


First off, Packers normally seem to look two to four year down the road... not first year...

Secondly Bush really isn't making that much (NFL wise), so I'm not sure why they would really care about clearing his contract if he's one of the best 53.

Bush's contract:
2013: $1.35 million,
2014: $1.6 million,
2015: Free Agent


If you wanted to get rid of a DBs contract it would be Tramon Williams...

Williams's contract:
2013: $5.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2014: $6.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2015: Free Agent

(they might be able to resign two lesser starters with that kind of money, or maybe one bigger one)...

Shields, Raji, Burnett, Bulaga, D-Smith, etc...


If Williams doesn't win a starting CB job he might be asked to take a pay cut (and/or straight up cut... not sure if someone would want him with that contract in a trade)...


Good observation. This is why I see Hyde as a good pick. "Why address such a deep CB position when we have such a huge hole at S???" Because of Tramon right? Shields/Hayward/House have shown massive upside. No need to pay our 3rd/4th best CB in Tramon starter money.

My question: Is Hyde a legit factor in the return game? Enough to take Cobb off and free up Ross' spot on offense? This pick makes even more sense then.
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RashaanSalaami


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Beast wrote:
From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.


Unless they are looking to clear Bush's cap space, no way does a rookie mid/late rounder come in and start over Bush. Bush isn't that good, but he isn't that bad either.


First off, Packers normally seem to look two to four year down the road... not first year...

Secondly Bush really isn't making that much (NFL wise), so I'm not sure why they would really care about clearing his contract if he's one of the best 53.

Bush's contract:
2013: $1.35 million,
2014: $1.6 million,
2015: Free Agent


If you wanted to get rid of a DBs contract it would be Tramon Williams...

Williams's contract:
2013: $5.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2014: $6.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus),
2015: Free Agent

(they might be able to resign two lesser starters with that kind of money, or maybe one bigger one)...

Shields, Raji, Burnett, Bulaga, D-Smith, etc...


If Williams doesn't win a starting CB job he might be asked to take a pay cut (and/or straight up cut... not sure if someone would want him with that contract in a trade)...


Not sure where those numbers are from, but the Cap Hits are:

Jarrett Bush
2013: $1.8 million ($667k Dead Money if cut)
2014: $2.0 million ($333k Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA

Tramon Williams
2013: $8.5 million ($4 million Dead Money if cut)
2014: $9.5 million ($2 million Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA
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Beast


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
I completely agree with your last post. In your first I thought you were suggesting Hyde as the dime back. I was saying that I don't think he'd play that fast.

Food for thought... Bush is getting paid good money for reserve DB/Gunner. If anybody is a better gunner he could be a casualty. As for Twill- if he isn't our #1 he'll be getting paid too much. I think he'll be our #1 though...


I don't think many thought Hayward would play that fast ether... but he did. Not saying Hyde could do it... just saying it did happen at least once. (last year).

Also Capers in his past has gone with 3 S and 3 CB dime packages...
Top 3 CB with Burnett, Jennings and McMillian might be another interesting idea... though I haven't seen them do it in GB unless you count Woodson as a Safety in the sub packages (I don't).

I don't think Twill was the #1 last year... some of those other CB played better than him and the CB said so... he said House looked the best in training camp before he got injured. And to my eyes Shields looked like the top guy on the outside and Hayward looked like the top guy on the inside though didn't seem to play as well on the outside compared to inside.

The Kuhn wrote:
Good observation. This is why I see Hyde as a good pick. "Why address such a deep CB position when we have such a huge hole at S???" Because of Tramon right? Shields/Hayward/House have shown massive upside. No need to pay our 3rd/4th best CB in Tramon starter money.

My question: Is Hyde a legit factor in the return game? Enough to take Cobb off and free up Ross' spot on offense? This pick makes even more sense then.


Using RashaanSalaami's numbers that he got the Packers would save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they would save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might want to save the 12 million for a player with a contract coming up (Shields, Burnett, Bulaga, Raji, etc...)

As for the return game, I have NO idea... but I'm going to guess no. I think the return spot is Ross' unless he looks worse. I've heard a lot of people talk about his fumble against the 49ers, but he fumbled one... the great Cobb fumbled twice... I think nerves just got to them.

MM was also working Ross into the offense more towards the end of the season. In some things MM doesn't normally do, so I'm thinking that's bad news for Boykins or one of the rookies (unless they get a trade offer they can't refuse for James Jones or something... he scored 14 TDs... someone could make a surprising offer though I'm doubting it).


RashaanSalaami wrote:
Not sure where those numbers are from, but the Cap Hits are:

Jarrett Bush
2013: $1.8 million ($667k Dead Money if cut)
2014: $2.0 million ($333k Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA

Tramon Williams
2013: $8.5 million ($4 million Dead Money if cut)
2014: $9.5 million ($2 million Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA


My numbers came from rotoworld. (see links at the bottom of this post if you want to follow them)

But my numbers didn't factor in signing bonuses and other guaranteed/dead money that the cap hit numbers follow, so you're are better. (may I ask where did you find the cap numbers?)

But even using your numbers, the Packers save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might be tempted at saving that 12 million and reinvest into other players (Shields/Burnett both don't have a contract for 2014 yet...among others)


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4067/jarrett-bush

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4327/tramon-williams
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boratt


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Packers have taken two players who fit better in zone defense than man defense the last two drafts. House, I think he can play a little zone, although physically, he certainly has the tools to play man.

Sheilds looks like a pro-bowler in man defense and just bad when he's playing zone. Williams is that way too, better in man than zone.

I don't know if it's a philosophy shift toward more zone defense, if they're just trying to shore up the nickle/dime spots or if it's just coincidental that they picked 2 zone players after drafting almost exclusively man corners for many years.

We'll see I guess.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
From everything I'm reading / hearing from the Packers interviews... it sounds like the Packers think Micah Hyde will be a really good fit at in the slot/hybrid position which Woodson/Hayward have played.

Before last season started there was a lot of talk about the Packers defense maybe playing a lot of dime coverage (6 DBs on the field at once). I don't think it happen much because of the injuries to House and Woodson.

But Shields hasn't played the slot, House and Williams have but they seem much better on the outsides. Leaving Hayward, Bush and Hyde for the better 3 guys on the inside.

I'm guessing the inside slot position is where the CB coach thought Hyde could become a huge upgrade and then grow better as the outside CB over time with more coaching.


Very much so how I see it as well. If nothing else, there is a little playmaker in Hyde and he can get ya in the dirt in the open field. LIS, kids a damn fine gunner prospect as well. I was not a huge Hyde guy but I can see why the Packers staff might have been high on his game. Just don't want to see him out wide until he has the press on point. NFL WR's would eat his lunch out there if ya look at his game as it stands today. Smart kid though. I don't see a real high bar with Hyde but I doubt it takes him long to get there. Big plus!
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rbens06


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Beast"]
blankman0021 wrote:
Using RashaanSalaami's numbers that he got the Packers would save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they would save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might want to save the 12 million for a player with a contract coming up (Shields, Burnett, Bulaga, Raji, etc...)

RashaanSalaami wrote:
Not sure where those numbers are from, but the Cap Hits are:

Jarrett Bush
2013: $1.8 million ($667k Dead Money if cut)
2014: $2.0 million ($333k Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA

Tramon Williams
2013: $8.5 million ($4 million Dead Money if cut)
2014: $9.5 million ($2 million Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA


But even using your numbers, the Packers save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might be tempted at saving that 12 million and reinvest into other players (Shields/Burnett both don't have a contract for 2014 yet...among others)


Tramon would only save us $4.5 if we cut him this year, $8.5-4=$4.5, and Bush would only be $1.133, $1.8-.667=$1.133, assuming we would take all the dead money in one year.
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wgbeethree


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="rbens06"]
Beast wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Using RashaanSalaami's numbers that he got the Packers would save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they would save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might want to save the 12 million for a player with a contract coming up (Shields, Burnett, Bulaga, Raji, etc...)

RashaanSalaami wrote:
Not sure where those numbers are from, but the Cap Hits are:

Jarrett Bush
2013: $1.8 million ($667k Dead Money if cut)
2014: $2.0 million ($333k Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA

Tramon Williams
2013: $8.5 million ($4 million Dead Money if cut)
2014: $9.5 million ($2 million Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA


But even using your numbers, the Packers save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might be tempted at saving that 12 million and reinvest into other players (Shields/Burnett both don't have a contract for 2014 yet...among others)


Tramon would only save us $4.5 if we cut him this year, $8.5-4=$4.5, and Bush would only be $1.133, $1.8-.667=$1.133, assuming we would take all the dead money in one year.


Total savings not just 2013 savings. You don't have to pay the 2014 salaries so you'd save those NEXT year. He's talking over the life of the contract. You're thinking this years cap.
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rbens06


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="wgbeethree"]
rbens06 wrote:
Beast wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Using RashaanSalaami's numbers that he got the Packers would save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they would save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might want to save the 12 million for a player with a contract coming up (Shields, Burnett, Bulaga, Raji, etc...)

RashaanSalaami wrote:
Not sure where those numbers are from, but the Cap Hits are:

Jarrett Bush
2013: $1.8 million ($667k Dead Money if cut)
2014: $2.0 million ($333k Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA

Tramon Williams
2013: $8.5 million ($4 million Dead Money if cut)
2014: $9.5 million ($2 million Dead Money if cut)
2015: FA


But even using your numbers, the Packers save 2.8 million if they cut Bush, and they save 12 million if they cut Twill. If Twill isn't a starter they might be tempted at saving that 12 million and reinvest into other players (Shields/Burnett both don't have a contract for 2014 yet...among others)


Tramon would only save us $4.5 if we cut him this year, $8.5-4=$4.5, and Bush would only be $1.133, $1.8-.667=$1.133, assuming we would take all the dead money in one year.


Total savings not just 2013 savings. You don't have to pay the 2014 salaries so you'd save those NEXT year. He's talking over the life of the contract. You're thinking this years cap.


Right, I meant to mention we will not realize that amount in year one. We would only be allowed to reinvest $5.633 million this year into contracts. Cutting Tramon may save $12 million over the life of his remaining contract and $2.8 million for Bush, but we cannot reinvest that all into contracts this year. In fact those moves might be made next offseason to balance out the jumps Clay and Rodgers salaries will take, but that's is different conversation.
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Beast


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boratt wrote:
The Packers have taken two players who fit better in zone defense than man defense the last two drafts. House, I think he can play a little zone, although physically, he certainly has the tools to play man.

Sheilds looks like a pro-bowler in man defense and just bad when he's playing zone. Williams is that way too, better in man than zone.

I don't know if it's a philosophy shift toward more zone defense, if they're just trying to shore up the nickle/dime spots or if it's just coincidental that they picked 2 zone players after drafting almost exclusively man corners for many years.

We'll see I guess.


The slot Woodson hybrid position needs to be good in zones because that position is going to be asked to do everything, man coverage with TEs and WR, zone coverage with LB and Safeties, reacting for both long and short passes as well a blitzes.

So I believe they're going man coverage for their outside CB and zone for their inside CBs. And Safties have to do some of both.


palmy50 wrote:

Very much so how I see it as well. If nothing else, there is a little playmaker in Hyde and he can get ya in the dirt in the open field. LIS, kids a damn fine gunner prospect as well. I was not a huge Hyde guy but I can see why the Packers staff might have been high on his game. Just don't want to see him out wide until he has the press on point. NFL WR's would eat his lunch out there if ya look at his game as it stands today. Smart kid though. I don't see a real high bar with Hyde but I doubt it takes him long to get there. Big plus!


I don't think the Packers are doing it (at least not right away) but I wouldn't mind if they tried playing Hyde at both the slot and Saftey like Woodson did this last year.


rbens06 wrote:
Right, I meant to mention we will not realize that amount in year one. We would only be allowed to reinvest $5.633 million this year into contracts. Cutting Tramon may save $12 million over the life of his remaining contract and $2.8 million for Bush, but we cannot reinvest that all into contracts this year. In fact those moves might be made next offseason to balance out the jumps Clay and Rodgers salaries will take, but that's is different conversation.


What you're saying is correct but you're over thinking it...

If it frees up 12 million over the next two years, the Packers could simple sign a contract the Packers could simple give someone a contract like

Year 1: 3 million
Year 2: 4 million
Year 3: 2 million
Year 4: 3 million

There are so many tricks that teams can use... as well as taking unguaranteed money and making it guaranteed, which frees up money in the current cap year and takes up space in the future years.

So freeing up money is freeing up money... weather it's one year or two...

Heck Al Davis locked up poorly used money four years down the road and is why the Raiders have still been in cap trouble.
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kuhn wrote:


My question: Is Hyde a legit factor in the return game? Enough to take Cobb off and free up Ross' spot on offense? This pick makes even more sense then.


unless Ross fumbles the job away (pun intended)... hes going to be really hard to beat out strictly as a return guy... in the limited time we saw Ross, he showed pure return ability that not many guys posses

its strange that its a hard position to fill, but some guys just have the mentality/vision to return & some don't... Ross clearly does

now with that said, there are 2-3 WR spots up for grabs & 4 guys have a legit shot at those open spots & one of them is Ross
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