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With the 135th pick, the tWo select, Denard Robinson, ATH
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't.


That said, he's going to be better as a 10-15 touch guy.


If that...Maybe eventually, as he develops some legitimate skillsets outside of scrambling QBish type player.


And that's not really a knock on Robinson or the pick, it's just the reality...you can only run so many 'gimmick' plays to get the ball in the hands of a guy like that. You still have to run your 'normal offense' as well. And you have to sit there and watch our defense waste time getting blown up for a significant chunk of game time (at least for now).

My issue is more in having a pair of similar 'general playmaker' types on the roster in Ace and ShoelAce. If we wanna get the ball in both their hands over the course of a game...but still get the ball to B14mon and ShortsIII along with MJD who loves to carry the ball as often as possible...how many touches are there to go around...especially when you're talking how many 'gimmick' type touches are there?


Some of both of their touches are going to be just normal route tree catches. Not everything is going to be fancy stuff, and Shoelace is going to have some normal spell back runs as well. Sprinkle in Ace's returns, and a couple read option plays, and you're pushing 20 plays where they're involved, even if it isn't a direct touch.


20 combined maybe.

I mean, we ran ~60something plays per game on offense last year. Hopefully we improve in that regard...but there's no way half our offensive plays go to a pair of gimmick guys.
Yeah, I meant combined between the two, and including kickoff/punt returns.

7-8 returns
4-5 targets to Ace on regular routes (would be about 40-50 catches on the season, depending on his catch rate, so it's certainly reasonable for a player)
2-4 read option/wildcat/reverses/RB pass/actual gadget plays
4-6 runs with Shoelace as a change of pace/breather to MJD, and this could go higher
2-3 passes to Shoelace out of the backfield

That's 20-26 touches pretty easily.

Then other plays that ulilize them as decoys. Make the team think you're goign to run a funky play and just have the QB air it out to Shorts when he gets single coverage because the teams are overpersuing the gadget.


That is very possible.

My biggest question though, is if we only had ONE of those guys...would we see a significant decrease in the # of touches for that sort of player? Would we not just use our singular gadget player more?

It's not that i don't like either player as a pick...i'm still just not sold on both at the same time. Maybe i'm just old school and want to build a great conventional offense and defense before i worry much about gimmicks, to the extent of grabbing 2 in the mid-rounds, with other potential starters still on the board.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
That is very possible.

My biggest question though, is if we only had ONE of those guys...would we see a significant decrease in the # of touches for that sort of player? Would we not just use our singular gadget player more?

It's not that i don't like either player as a pick...i'm still just not sold on both at the same time. Maybe i'm just old school and want to build a great conventional offense and defense before i worry much about gimmicks, to the extent of grabbing 2 in the mid-rounds, with other potential starters still on the board.


If we only had one?

I think if you removed either one, you're removing probably 5-6 touches/targets, which doesn't seem like a lot, but that's typical slot receiver touches/targets, which is all you're expecting from a receiver on this team anyway.

Basically, those touches amount to we drafted a slot receiver and a #2 RB/potential heir to MJD if we're lucky and we'll be able to use them in ways that really open up the offense, and because they do these things, they get more touches. That's about all you can ask for from 4th/5th round picks.
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
That is very possible.

My biggest question though, is if we only had ONE of those guys...would we see a significant decrease in the # of touches for that sort of player? Would we not just use our singular gadget player more?

It's not that i don't like either player as a pick...i'm still just not sold on both at the same time. Maybe i'm just old school and want to build a great conventional offense and defense before i worry much about gimmicks, to the extent of grabbing 2 in the mid-rounds, with other potential starters still on the board.


If we only had one?

I think if you removed either one, you're removing probably 5-6 touches/targets, which doesn't seem like a lot, but that's typical slot receiver touches/targets, which is all you're expecting from a receiver on this team anyway.

Basically, those touches amount to we drafted a slot receiver and a #2 RB/potential heir to MJD if we're lucky and we'll be able to use them in ways that really open up the offense, and because they do these things, they get more touches. That's about all you can ask for from 4th/5th round picks.


In a lot of years, i'd really agree with that. But i do think there were potential starters for us available still at the 4th round pick this year, at other positions of real need. We passed those up for a potentially dynamic gimmick threat. Ok. but then we went with another Gimmick guy in the next round...that's really my only problem with this. It's two guys without 'natural' fits in a standard offense...it's going to be tough to get them both the touches to make it worth it long-term i think. But who knows what Bradley and Fisch have up their sleeves i guess. Maybe we'll see a radical offense this year and these things fall into place i guess.
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Jags


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mich_fan20 wrote:
Another Michigan fan here. This just gives me a reason to go to Jags games now.


Welcome again. We would love to have you rooting for the Jaguars. Keep the faith and make sure you are all aboard the bandwagon.

Plenty of room baby! Tell your friends.
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sadjag


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
That is very possible.

My biggest question though, is if we only had ONE of those guys...would we see a significant decrease in the # of touches for that sort of player? Would we not just use our singular gadget player more?

It's not that i don't like either player as a pick...i'm still just not sold on both at the same time. Maybe i'm just old school and want to build a great conventional offense and defense before i worry much about gimmicks, to the extent of grabbing 2 in the mid-rounds, with other potential starters still on the board.


If we only had one?

I think if you removed either one, you're removing probably 5-6 touches/targets, which doesn't seem like a lot, but that's typical slot receiver touches/targets, which is all you're expecting from a receiver on this team anyway.

Basically, those touches amount to we drafted a slot receiver and a #2 RB/potential heir to MJD if we're lucky and we'll be able to use them in ways that really open up the offense, and because they do these things, they get more touches. That's about all you can ask for from 4th/5th round picks.


In a lot of years, i'd really agree with that. But i do think there were potential starters for us available still at the 4th round pick this year, at other positions of real need. We passed those up for a potentially dynamic gimmick threat. Ok. but then we went with another Gimmick guy in the next round...that's really my only problem with this. It's two guys without 'natural' fits in a standard offense...it's going to be tough to get them both the touches to make it worth it long-term i think. But who knows what Bradley and Fisch have up their sleeves i guess. Maybe we'll see a radical offense this year and these things fall into place i guess.
If I may interject, I had some of the same thoughts tuggy and came too peace with the selections like this instead of labeling them both as "gadget" players Ace is a slot receiver and Denard is a backup RB both of those spots are places on our team that might not of been a need,but they certainly could of been improved and we did so with electric players. Caldwell said he noticed a lack of speed on the team and wanted too address that.

Now add in the value these guys will bring on ST as our punt and kick returners Two spots that desperately needed too be addressed. And address them we did with electric players.

Now after all that add in the value these guys give us in scheme diversity. Now we can open up the playbook some with who knows, wildcat, reverses... son on and so forth. This kinda thing can give defenses hell.

IMO Thats a hell of alot of value for a couple of mid-round picks. I dont really understand your argument that they will be taking touches away from one another, one is a WR and the other is a RB. Sure Denard might catch some passes and Ace might get some touches maybe but I can't imagine it would be enough too seriously matter.

Sure there were other needs but frankly we all know there's way more needs than draft picks for this team

We picked up two guys with serious speed and ballskills I'm ecstatic
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Wolverine_Joe


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
MightyRx wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
If Jerry Sullivan can teach Ace and D.R. some tools to put in they're tool kit and one of these guys emerge to become our Percy Harvin and they can do it on a consistent bases out the slot i'm a happy camper. But its kind of the same pick but if Caldwell and Gus have a plan i'm amped to see how it plays out ace and denard handing off to each other on a double reverse? Denard running a little read option with Mojo and Ace standing in the same backfield ? We shall see.


How does Denard stack up as a passer with Pat White?


Pat White was more accurate but Denard has a more lively arm.
(Don't tell Denard I said that he wasn't accurate.)

Pat White is perhaps the least accurate QB to ever take a snap in the NFL. If Denard is even less accurate, my mind is blown.


denard is an inaccurate passer because of his footwork. his footwork is a mess.
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Wolverine_Joe


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jags wrote:
Mich_fan20 wrote:
Another Michigan fan here. This just gives me a reason to go to Jags games now.


Welcome again. We would love to have you rooting for the Jaguars. Keep the faith and make sure you are all aboard the bandwagon.

Plenty of room baby! Tell your friends.


i joined bandwagon last year. Laughing got me all excited in that texans game where henne looked like tebow hype derailing stud again. but of course henne is henne. been always like that since day 1. always gives you the glimpse of greatness and then takes it all back and throw you to the bottomless pit wondering what da hell just happened to this guy. lol

hopefully denard contributes and become a legit weapon. i hated denard as a QB, but i loved denard as a playmaker.

i guess i have more reason to watch all jags game this year. will always root for wolverines. let's go jags!
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Jaguarfan


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolverine_Joe wrote:
Jags wrote:
Mich_fan20 wrote:
Another Michigan fan here. This just gives me a reason to go to Jags games now.


Welcome again. We would love to have you rooting for the Jaguars. Keep the faith and make sure you are all aboard the bandwagon.

Plenty of room baby! Tell your friends.


i joined bandwagon last year. Laughing got me all excited in that texans game where henne looked like tebow hype derailing stud again. but of course henne is henne. been always like that since day 1. always gives you the glimpse of greatness and then takes it all back and throw you to the bottomless pit wondering what da hell just happened to this guy. lol

hopefully denard contributes and become a legit weapon. i hated denard as a QB, but i loved denard as a playmaker.

i guess i have more reason to watch all jags game this year. will always root for wolverines. let's go jags!

Imagine if Henne is our QB. Throwing to Denard.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
Wolverine_Joe wrote:
Jags wrote:
Mich_fan20 wrote:
Another Michigan fan here. This just gives me a reason to go to Jags games now.


Welcome again. We would love to have you rooting for the Jaguars. Keep the faith and make sure you are all aboard the bandwagon.

Plenty of room baby! Tell your friends.


i joined bandwagon last year. Laughing got me all excited in that texans game where henne looked like tebow hype derailing stud again. but of course henne is henne. been always like that since day 1. always gives you the glimpse of greatness and then takes it all back and throw you to the bottomless pit wondering what da hell just happened to this guy. lol

hopefully denard contributes and become a legit weapon. i hated denard as a QB, but i loved denard as a playmaker.

i guess i have more reason to watch all jags game this year. will always root for wolverines. let's go jags!

Imagine if Henne is our QB. Throwing to Denard.



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Wolverine_Joe


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:

Imagine if Henne is our QB. Throwing to Denard.


wolverine on wolverine crime?
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
Jaguarfan wrote:
Wolverine_Joe wrote:
Jags wrote:
Mich_fan20 wrote:
Another Michigan fan here. This just gives me a reason to go to Jags games now.


Welcome again. We would love to have you rooting for the Jaguars. Keep the faith and make sure you are all aboard the bandwagon.

Plenty of room baby! Tell your friends.


i joined bandwagon last year. Laughing got me all excited in that texans game where henne looked like tebow hype derailing stud again. but of course henne is henne. been always like that since day 1. always gives you the glimpse of greatness and then takes it all back and throw you to the bottomless pit wondering what da hell just happened to this guy. lol

hopefully denard contributes and become a legit weapon. i hated denard as a QB, but i loved denard as a playmaker.

i guess i have more reason to watch all jags game this year. will always root for wolverines. let's go jags!

Imagine if Henne is our QB. Throwing to Denard.




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dswinton


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody know Shoelace new number?
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: How much do you expect him to throw? I feel like the wildcat formation is more effective if the "QB" can pass.

I'm not seeing he's Tom Brady but he's probably the best passing RB in the league.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jaguars have high hopes for Denard Robinson as RB, returner

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/jaguars-have-high-hopes-for-denard-robinson-as-rb-returner/

I hate that you guys stole him from us, I think this guy is gonna be electric. Should be another Jamaal Charles. Hopefully you guys continue putting an OL in front of him.

I'm also a big fan of Ace, but I bleed Maze and Blue.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Quote:
Jaguars have high hopes for Denard Robinson as RB, returner

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/jaguars-have-high-hopes-for-denard-robinson-as-rb-returner/

I hate that you guys stole him from us, I think this guy is gonna be electric. Should be another Jamaal Charles. Hopefully you guys continue putting an OL in front of him.

I'm also a big fan of Ace, but I bleed Maze and Blue.


Stole sounds so bad, I prefer borrowed until proven he isnt working out, then you can have him Wink
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Did he do good on the homework and quizzes but choke on the tests?
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