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#132 - Detroit Selects - Devin Taylor DE South Carolina
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
skatebeanz wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
I like getting guys with long arms/freakish wingspans. Ansah, Taylor and Jason Jones are all freakishly long. I think getting this size on our line, we should move to a more traditional front which will also help Suh and Fairley in return. We don't need the wide 9 because we don't have guys like Avril and a broken down KVB anymore.

Can't wait to watch our DL this year. Lot of upside to it.
Jim Washburn and Ansah are here. Wide 9is too.
Gimmick


Maybe, but due to the huge upgrades in size I'm hoping for a boost against the run.
If we're lining them wide and still coaching them to "play the run, on the way to the QB", it'll be the SOL.

Plus what's the use of having these bigger DL if you won't allow them to play the passing lanes and swat down throws? I hate that about our scheme.
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skatebeanz


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
skatebeanz wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
I like getting guys with long arms/freakish wingspans. Ansah, Taylor and Jason Jones are all freakishly long. I think getting this size on our line, we should move to a more traditional front which will also help Suh and Fairley in return. We don't need the wide 9 because we don't have guys like Avril and a broken down KVB anymore.

Can't wait to watch our DL this year. Lot of upside to it.
Jim Washburn and Ansah are here. Wide 9is too.
Gimmick


Maybe, but due to the huge upgrades in size I'm hoping for a boost against the run.
If we're lining them wide and still coaching them to "play the run, on the way to the QB", it'll be the SOL.

Plus what's the use of having these bigger DL if you won't allow them to play the passing lanes and swat down throws? I hate that about our scheme.
I like how we are different. No one else really runs the wide 9 so it will be a nice COP.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
skatebeanz wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
I like getting guys with long arms/freakish wingspans. Ansah, Taylor and Jason Jones are all freakishly long. I think getting this size on our line, we should move to a more traditional front which will also help Suh and Fairley in return. We don't need the wide 9 because we don't have guys like Avril and a broken down KVB anymore.

Can't wait to watch our DL this year. Lot of upside to it.
Jim Washburn and Ansah are here. Wide 9is too.
Gimmick


Maybe, but due to the huge upgrades in size I'm hoping for a boost against the run.
If we're lining them wide and still coaching them to "play the run, on the way to the QB", it'll be the SOL.

Plus what's the use of having these bigger DL if you won't allow them to play the passing lanes and swat down throws? I hate that about our scheme.
I like how we are different. No one else really runs the wide 9 so it will be a nice COP.
Nobody else runs it because it sucks, and it's a gimmick. And how is it a COP when we've been running it four years, going on five?

It limits our DL, think about how Watt effects games by playing the passing lanes when he can't get to the QB. Plus both teams that used the gimmick were terrible against the run.

Like I've said, I wouldn't mind using it as a situational formation used on primarily passing situations. Using it as our base is stubborn and stupid.
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LionsFTW


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not a gimmick. Its a 9 tech. Its no more gimmicky than a 34 defense.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
Its not a gimmick. Its a 9 tech. Its no more gimmicky than a 34 defense.
It's not just a 9 technique. Our DL are coached to attack the QB 100% of the time, so it limits the impact that all other schemes allow their DL to make.

We worry about the run after the fact, and don't play passing lanes. It's not just the formation I'm frustrated with, it's the strategy the scheme employs.
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.
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MrDirt


Joined: 04 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.


Are you more referring to just what the line does? (Wide-9 just describes what the d-line does, right?)
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.


Are you more referring to just what the line does? (Wide-9 just describes what the d-line does, right?)


Kinda. The term "Wide 9" just means your DEs are 9-tech rather than 3 or 5 tech.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.
Alright, that all makes sense.

Well I hate our overall strategy, and I'm hoping that with the addition of all of these bigger DL, they intend to change up their past strategies, whether they continue to use the formation or not.
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MrDirt


Joined: 04 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.


Are you more referring to just what the line does? (Wide-9 just describes what the d-line does, right?)


Kinda. The term "Wide 9" just means your DEs are 9-tech rather than 3 or 5 tech.


So one would (assume) that with a healthy/improved group of DBs, the wide-9 would work better?
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.


Are you more referring to just what the line does? (Wide-9 just describes what the d-line does, right?)


Kinda. The term "Wide 9" just means your DEs are 9-tech rather than 3 or 5 tech.


So one would (assume) that with a healthy/improved group of DBs, the wide-9 would work better?
That goes without saying. But still, our DL will continue to be one-dimensional if they're coached the way they have been for the past several seasons.

They need to be allowed to read and react. Play the passing lanes, stop the run, and attack the QB with discipline.
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.


Are you more referring to just what the line does? (Wide-9 just describes what the d-line does, right?)


Kinda. The term "Wide 9" just means your DEs are 9-tech rather than 3 or 5 tech.


So one would (assume) that with a healthy/improved group of DBs, the wide-9 would work better?
That goes without saying. But still, our DL will continue to be one-dimensional if they're coached the way they have been for the past several seasons.

They need to be allowed to read and react. Play the passing lanes, stop the run, and attack the QB with discipline.


Agree. But that has nothing to do with the wide 9.

For the people that dont know, the technique the linemen play means where they lineup on the OL. Their are 0-9 techniques. 0 tech lines up directly on the center. Every even numbered technique lines up directly on the OLmen. 2 on the guard. 4 in the tackle. 6 on the TE. Odd numbers are on the outside shoulder of the OLmen, once again starting in the middle and going out. 1 is outside the C. 3 outside the guard. 5 outside the tackle. 9 outside the TE. The 7 lines inside the TE and thats the only inconsistency.
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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what the wide 9 is.

Reason I said it's a COP is because no one else but us run it. So other teams have to prep for us specifically. I love the scheme and formation if we play a passing team like NE (We tore them up a few years ago in the PS and BB was pissed at his team over it). When we play a team running the readoption (not a gimmick) we will be tore up because you have to be disciplined.

I still dunno how options are gimmicks. You are reading the defense. That is like saying a pass play with more than 1 read is a gimmick.
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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
MrDirt wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
Well that's not the W9. Thats the coaching philosophy. I live the W9 and what it brings. Phillys W9 is ideal, imo, because they have a zone blitzing scheme added to it which forces a ton of TOs and is the reason Asante was such a INT machine.

The W9 isnt the problem because all that means is our DEs are 9-tech linemen. Its what the coaches are telling them to do while in the 9-tech that makes issues. I wouldn't call that gimmicky by any means. Flea flickers and wildcat and options are gimmicks.

I share your frustration. I just think gimmick is the wrong word.


Are you more referring to just what the line does? (Wide-9 just describes what the d-line does, right?)



Kinda. The term "Wide 9" just means your DEs are 9-tech rather than 3 or 5 tech.


Yeah, It's pretty much just about where you line up on your gaps along the line, nothing really to do on how you attack the QB or offense, though the extra space on the outside is suppose to give an edge to the faster player on the outside while offering a huge gap for run plays between 5-9 or roughly between the LG-LT and RG-LT. Lotta open space for runners. Even the Lions don't ALWAYS line up wide, almost always out wide on passing downs though.

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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
I know what the wide 9 is.

Reason I said it's a COP is because no one else but us run it. So other teams have to prep for us specifically. I love the scheme and formation if we play a passing team like NE (We tore them up a few years ago in the PS and BB was pissed at his team over it). When we play a team running the readoption (not a gimmick) we will be tore up because you have to be disciplined.

I still dunno how options are gimmicks. You are reading the defense. That is like saying a pass play with more than 1 read is a gimmick.


A Gimmick is something you can't consistently get away with. How many times in a row can you run an end around? Or Statue of liberty play?

How many times can you run a pass play with multiple reads?

Not very often vs Often. That's why one's a gimmick and one is not.
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