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Odd man out at QB?
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Who draws the short stick at QB?
Michael Vick
25%
 25%  [ 10 ]
Nick Foles
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Matt Barkley
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Dennis Dixon
60%
 60%  [ 24 ]
We Keep 4 QBs
10%
 10%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 40

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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
So people actually think it is a good idea to cut the only guy with substantial experience as a NFL started? The only guy that has at one point or another played at the QB position at a high level?

What does Dennis Dixon do better than Mike Vick? Someone please explain this mystery to me. Sick, he knows Chip Kelly. Unless he is banging Chip's daughter he has no spot on this team, he does nothing better than Vick.


Any QB that turns the ball over less then Vick is fine IMO. We were a 4 win team with Vick and Foles. I think we are a 4 win team with any combination of Vick, Foles, Brockley Laughing, or Dixon.


On paper the Eagles are better than a 4 win team. The defense is a huge question mark especially since for whatever reason they decided it would be a good idea to change the scheme. Because of this, I think you need a QB that can spark your offense. Vick is currently the best option in Philadelphia to do that. Yes, he will make his share of bad decisions and turn the ball over, but he also has the potential to put up a huge number of points on any given day, especially with all the weapons around him. I can't say the same for any other QB currently on the Eagles roster.

If the Eagles are a 4 win team, then so be it. But you literally have nothing to lose by starting Vick. Might as well see what he, a healthy/improved o-line and all the skill can do before you pull the plug. If Vick comes out this season and can't protect the ball at all and the Eagles are struggling, you pull the cord and start Foles/Barkley(lol) from there you determine if you need to draft a real franchise QB the following year.

Now you tell me you know what you are going to get out of Vick and he nothing but garbage, blah blah blah. But again, I ask, what do you have to lose? Answer that for me.



See, your point here is exactly why we SHOULD start Foles or Barkley.

Because we have nothing to lose! It's year 1 of a rebuilding year! WHY go with a 31 year old QB who sucks like Vick on a one year deal when we're trying to build a team?! What on earth would that accomplish? Why not see what we have with our young guys who have potential????

Vick starting and winning 5 games does NOTHING for us. It just slows down our development of Foles or Barkley because they'd be sitting on the bench all year watching Vick throw 3 picks a game.


How so?

I'm a fan of winning. Not throwing away seasons with a talented roster so that we can see what young guys can do. I've seen Vick win in a run-heavy offense before. I've seen him win a lot on a far less talented team in Atlanta.

If Vick starts and wins the first 5 games, how does that do nothing for us? We are a winning football team that is playoff bound. And yeah, sitting on the bench an extra year sure slowed Aaron Rodgers development down, didn't it?


I meant Vick starting all year and winning 5 games does nothing for us. Figured that was pretty clear.

And lol at bringing up Rodgers. So Rodgers, a 1st round pick who sat for 3+ years watching Brett Favre play is similar to Foles/Barkley sitting on the bench for a year watching Vick throw 3 picks a game?

Righhhhhht.
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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea that Vick is still a competent QB blows my mind. He is a QB that over performed for one season, and has done nothing since. He was garbage last year, and the year before he wasn't any good either. Foles with out a doubt played better then Vick last year. Why would he not be able to beat him out in TC? Cause he doesn't run as well? Please. Foles played with a worse supporting cast and still outplayed him. Remember the Giants game at the end of the year? Do you want HIM playing QB for us?

Last edited by AZ_Eaglesfan on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kempes wrote:
I'd rather fail with Barkley or Foles than with Vick.

At least then we'll know we still don't have a QB for the future and can get one in 2014.

If it works out with Barkley or Foles, then we're happy. I don't see Vick getting any better, he's only older than he was last year. There's no getting better here.


This is what everyone is overlooking. There is upside to Mike Vick. It comes in the form of running a less retarded offense. Stick with your and his strength, run the friggin' football. Vick in an effective run first NFL offense will be a good QB, especially with the down field weapons the Eagles have. We tried to utilize these weapons without first establishing any semblance of a run game and pigeon holing Vick into becoming solely a passing QB. No one else sees a problem with this?
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
So people actually think it is a good idea to cut the only guy with substantial experience as a NFL started? The only guy that has at one point or another played at the QB position at a high level?

What does Dennis Dixon do better than Mike Vick? Someone please explain this mystery to me. Sick, he knows Chip Kelly. Unless he is banging Chip's daughter he has no spot on this team, he does nothing better than Vick.


Any QB that turns the ball over less then Vick is fine IMO. We were a 4 win team with Vick and Foles. I think we are a 4 win team with any combination of Vick, Foles, Brockley Laughing, or Dixon.


On paper the Eagles are better than a 4 win team. The defense is a huge question mark especially since for whatever reason they decided it would be a good idea to change the scheme. Because of this, I think you need a QB that can spark your offense. Vick is currently the best option in Philadelphia to do that. Yes, he will make his share of bad decisions and turn the ball over, but he also has the potential to put up a huge number of points on any given day, especially with all the weapons around him. I can't say the same for any other QB currently on the Eagles roster.

If the Eagles are a 4 win team, then so be it. But you literally have nothing to lose by starting Vick. Might as well see what he, a healthy/improved o-line and all the skill can do before you pull the plug. If Vick comes out this season and can't protect the ball at all and the Eagles are struggling, you pull the cord and start Foles/Barkley(lol) from there you determine if you need to draft a real franchise QB the following year.

Now you tell me you know what you are going to get out of Vick and he nothing but garbage, blah blah blah. But again, I ask, what do you have to lose? Answer that for me.



See, your point here is exactly why we SHOULD start Foles or Barkley.

Because we have nothing to lose! It's year 1 of a rebuilding year! WHY go with a 31 year old QB who sucks like Vick on a one year deal when we're trying to build a team?! What on earth would that accomplish? Why not see what we have with our young guys who have potential????

Vick starting and winning 5 games does NOTHING for us. It just slows down our development of Foles or Barkley because they'd be sitting on the bench all year watching Vick throw 3 picks a game.


How so?

I'm a fan of winning. Not throwing away seasons with a talented roster so that we can see what young guys can do. I've seen Vick win in a run-heavy offense before. I've seen him win a lot on a far less talented team in Atlanta.

If Vick starts and wins the first 5 games, how does that do nothing for us? We are a winning football team that is playoff bound. And yeah, sitting on the bench an extra year sure slowed Aaron Rodgers development down, didn't it?


I meant Vick starting all year and winning 5 games does nothing for us. Figured that was pretty clear.

And lol at bringing up Rodgers. So Rodgers, a 1st round pick who sat for 3+ years watching Brett Favre play is similar to Foles/Barkley sitting on the bench for a year watching Vick throw 3 picks a game?

Righhhhhht.


Have you read none of my posts?

I said if Vick and the offense aren't clicking after 6 games or the Eagles stink, pull the cord and put in Foles/Barkley. I want a 6 game trial run with Vick running a Chip Kelly offense.

I don't want a 5 win season.

The funny part of course of you laughing at Rodgers learning behind Favre v. Foles/Barkley learning behind Vick is that Favre openly said he wasn't there to instruct Rodgers... oh also, Favre is the all-time leader in INTs, he regularly threw 20 INTs a season. He threw 20 TDs to 29 INTs in his 3rd to last year with the Packers and then 18 and 18 the year after that. Still, they kept Rodgers on the bench. Those numbers are atrocious. He finished his career with a 3.3% INT rate , Vick had his worst year with the Eagles last year and had a 2.8% INT rate. Don't act like Favre was so much more responsible with his throws and so important to A-Rod's success, it is insulting to Rodgers.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
I think we lose our future.

Let's face it, even if Vick can run the read option offense to perfection, we know that system asks quarterbacks to get hit (which is why I'd rather stay away from that offense in the first place), which means Vick is GOING to get injured. There is no reason to believe Michael Vick will remain healthy when he takes too many hits in a west coast style offense. An offense that makes him a ball carrier by design is just a waste of time.

And we lose out on developing Foles and Barkley. They need to see the field. They are the young guys. They are the guys who won't turn the ball over like Michael Vick. If one of them can develop into a franchise QB, or at least a solid QB to run whatever offense Chip creates, then that guy could stick around for 10+ years.

How much better can Matt and Nick get? They certainly haven't reached their ceiling yet.

Michael Vick has already met his ceiling and anything he's doing now as a passer is just overachieving. He has no real future here, and his contract restructure supports that claim.


So RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson Cam have limited futures in the NFL and success in the future as well right? Their teams are doing exactly that! The difference being two of the four have already actually "Built" a "Team" around that stylel/QB. If people want Vick gone because of age which in this day and age in the NFL means nothing at 32, That's fine. If they don't want him because he is a turn over machine fine. All I ask is that you apply that same thinking to all the QB on the roster because they too have their issues as well. However please stop bringing up the read option excuse and using it ad a crutch when in fact Kapernick was one bad decesion away from winning it all doing that exact scheme 4 months ago. Both he and Wilson are viewed by many experts as a legit SB winning candidate barring injury in the next five years. Complete teams win SB not just pocket passing QB. If we don't build a complete team in this process it doesn't matter what playing time Barkley and Foles get or don't get as the so called Franchise QB.
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SiLo


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless Dixon learns to throw over the summer, there is no way he makes this team.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Phire wrote:
I think we lose our future.

Let's face it, even if Vick can run the read option offense to perfection, we know that system asks quarterbacks to get hit (which is why I'd rather stay away from that offense in the first place), which means Vick is GOING to get injured. There is no reason to believe Michael Vick will remain healthy when he takes too many hits in a west coast style offense. An offense that makes him a ball carrier by design is just a waste of time.

And we lose out on developing Foles and Barkley. They need to see the field. They are the young guys. They are the guys who won't turn the ball over like Michael Vick. If one of them can develop into a franchise QB, or at least a solid QB to run whatever offense Chip creates, then that guy could stick around for 10+ years.

How much better can Matt and Nick get? They certainly haven't reached their ceiling yet.

Michael Vick has already met his ceiling and anything he's doing now as a passer is just overachieving. He has no real future here, and his contract restructure supports that claim.


So RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson Cam have limited futures in the NFL and success in the future as well right? Their teams are doing exactly that!


No... they are young guys. Vick is old, injury prone, and turnover prone. He can't get any better and is not a quarterback you can rely on.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Phire wrote:
I think we lose our future.

Let's face it, even if Vick can run the read option offense to perfection, we know that system asks quarterbacks to get hit (which is why I'd rather stay away from that offense in the first place), which means Vick is GOING to get injured. There is no reason to believe Michael Vick will remain healthy when he takes too many hits in a west coast style offense. An offense that makes him a ball carrier by design is just a waste of time.

And we lose out on developing Foles and Barkley. They need to see the field. They are the young guys. They are the guys who won't turn the ball over like Michael Vick. If one of them can develop into a franchise QB, or at least a solid QB to run whatever offense Chip creates, then that guy could stick around for 10+ years.

How much better can Matt and Nick get? They certainly haven't reached their ceiling yet.

Michael Vick has already met his ceiling and anything he's doing now as a passer is just overachieving. He has no real future here, and his contract restructure supports that claim.


So RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson Cam have limited futures in the NFL and success in the future as well right? Their teams are doing exactly that!


No... they are young guys. Vick is old, injury prone, and turnover prone. He can't get any better and is not a quarterback you can rely on.


You honestly don't think Vick will get any better if this team puts an emphasis on running the football (his strength) instead of having him throw 500 times a season?
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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Phire


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
Phire wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Phire wrote:
I think we lose our future.

Let's face it, even if Vick can run the read option offense to perfection, we know that system asks quarterbacks to get hit (which is why I'd rather stay away from that offense in the first place), which means Vick is GOING to get injured. There is no reason to believe Michael Vick will remain healthy when he takes too many hits in a west coast style offense. An offense that makes him a ball carrier by design is just a waste of time.

And we lose out on developing Foles and Barkley. They need to see the field. They are the young guys. They are the guys who won't turn the ball over like Michael Vick. If one of them can develop into a franchise QB, or at least a solid QB to run whatever offense Chip creates, then that guy could stick around for 10+ years.

How much better can Matt and Nick get? They certainly haven't reached their ceiling yet.

Michael Vick has already met his ceiling and anything he's doing now as a passer is just overachieving. He has no real future here, and his contract restructure supports that claim.


So RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson Cam have limited futures in the NFL and success in the future as well right? Their teams are doing exactly that!


No... they are young guys. Vick is old, injury prone, and turnover prone. He can't get any better and is not a quarterback you can rely on.


You honestly don't think Vick will get any better if this team puts an emphasis on running the football (his strength) instead of having him throw 500 times a season?

Every QB on the roster will benefit from a healthy running game.
Why stop there?

If your quarterback's strength is RUNNING THE BALL and not THROWING THE BALL then we're boxing ourselves in as a running team, the exact opposite of the previous pass happy offense which will stink just as much.

Give me a healthy running game with a quarterback whose strength is throwing the ball, because, you know, that's what a QB's job is. Then our offense will finally function properly.

Oh, and Vick's 2nd highest attempted throws in a season was 2002. If you tell me the injuries skewed the numbers, there would be some truth to that, but you're also giving the next reason why he shouldn't be a starting QB in the NFL.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also a fast tempo offense requires a fast tempo mind at QB who can process information quickly.

Sorry, Vick is Windows millennium and the other guys are at least Windows 7.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Phire wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Phire wrote:
I think we lose our future.

Let's face it, even if Vick can run the read option offense to perfection, we know that system asks quarterbacks to get hit (which is why I'd rather stay away from that offense in the first place), which means Vick is GOING to get injured. There is no reason to believe Michael Vick will remain healthy when he takes too many hits in a west coast style offense. An offense that makes him a ball carrier by design is just a waste of time.

And we lose out on developing Foles and Barkley. They need to see the field. They are the young guys. They are the guys who won't turn the ball over like Michael Vick. If one of them can develop into a franchise QB, or at least a solid QB to run whatever offense Chip creates, then that guy could stick around for 10+ years.

How much better can Matt and Nick get? They certainly haven't reached their ceiling yet.

Michael Vick has already met his ceiling and anything he's doing now as a passer is just overachieving. He has no real future here, and his contract restructure supports that claim.


So RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson Cam have limited futures in the NFL and success in the future as well right? Their teams are doing exactly that!


No... they are young guys. Vick is old, injury prone, and turnover prone. He can't get any better and is not a quarterback you can rely on.


You honestly don't think Vick will get any better if this team puts an emphasis on running the football (his strength) instead of having him throw 500 times a season?

Every QB on the roster will benefit from a healthy running game.
Why stop there?

If your quarterback's strength is RUNNING THE BALL and not THROWING THE BALL then we're boxing ourselves in as a running team, the exact opposite of the previous pass happy offense which will stink just as much.

Give me a healthy running game with a quarterback whose strength is throwing the ball, because, you know, that's what a QB's job is. Then our offense will finally function properly.

Oh, and Vick's 2nd highest attempted throws in a season was 2002. If you tell me the injuries skewed the numbers, there would be some truth to that, but you're also giving the next reason why he shouldn't be a starting QB in the NFL.


But only one QB on the roster can run Chip Kelly's zone-read offense (2 if you count Dixon.... but let's be real). I look at Kaep, Rg3 and Wilson and see exactly what Vick could've been if Andy Reid put the right offensive system in place. Even at his older age, Vick is a better athlete than all but probably RG3 and when you look at how dumbed down and simple all the passing routes these guys run are there is no question Vick could do that.

You act like this high-paced offense requires a ton of intelligence. Dennis Dixon and especially Masoli don't strike me as the smartest guys in the world and yet they both performed like All-Americans at Oregon.

Finally, Vick has become a competent enough passer at this point in his career that you have to respect both his legs and his arm. Look at the Giants game from this year, he was exceptional with a balanced attack and dinked and dunked his way down the field. If anything I think quickening the pace will be an added benefit for him.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though I don't want Vick, I just don't see him gone at least for this season.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Philly wrote:
Even though I don't want Vick, I just don't see him gone at least for this season.


Agreed.

I'm the original Vick hater and I don't see him being moved this year, unless Foles/Barkley have a stormer in PS.

Roseman and Kelly are far too smart to go into this season with 3 QBs with less than 10 total starts combined.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
Phire wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Phire wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Phire wrote:
I think we lose our future.

Let's face it, even if Vick can run the read option offense to perfection, we know that system asks quarterbacks to get hit (which is why I'd rather stay away from that offense in the first place), which means Vick is GOING to get injured. There is no reason to believe Michael Vick will remain healthy when he takes too many hits in a west coast style offense. An offense that makes him a ball carrier by design is just a waste of time.

And we lose out on developing Foles and Barkley. They need to see the field. They are the young guys. They are the guys who won't turn the ball over like Michael Vick. If one of them can develop into a franchise QB, or at least a solid QB to run whatever offense Chip creates, then that guy could stick around for 10+ years.

How much better can Matt and Nick get? They certainly haven't reached their ceiling yet.

Michael Vick has already met his ceiling and anything he's doing now as a passer is just overachieving. He has no real future here, and his contract restructure supports that claim.


So RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson Cam have limited futures in the NFL and success in the future as well right? Their teams are doing exactly that!


No... they are young guys. Vick is old, injury prone, and turnover prone. He can't get any better and is not a quarterback you can rely on.


You honestly don't think Vick will get any better if this team puts an emphasis on running the football (his strength) instead of having him throw 500 times a season?

Every QB on the roster will benefit from a healthy running game.
Why stop there?

If your quarterback's strength is RUNNING THE BALL and not THROWING THE BALL then we're boxing ourselves in as a running team, the exact opposite of the previous pass happy offense which will stink just as much.

Give me a healthy running game with a quarterback whose strength is throwing the ball, because, you know, that's what a QB's job is. Then our offense will finally function properly.

Oh, and Vick's 2nd highest attempted throws in a season was 2002. If you tell me the injuries skewed the numbers, there would be some truth to that, but you're also giving the next reason why he shouldn't be a starting QB in the NFL.


But only one QB on the roster can run Chip Kelly's zone-read offense (2 if you count Dixon.... but let's be real). I look at Kaep, Rg3 and Wilson and see exactly what Vick could've been if Andy Reid put the right offensive system in place. Even at his older age, Vick is a better athlete than all but probably RG3 and when you look at how dumbed down and simple all the passing routes these guys run are there is no question Vick could do that.

You act like this high-paced offense requires a ton of intelligence. Dennis Dixon and especially Masoli don't strike me as the smartest guys in the world and yet they both performed like All-Americans at Oregon.

Finally, Vick has become a competent enough passer at this point in his career that you have to respect both his legs and his arm. Look at the Giants game from this year, he was exceptional with a balanced attack and dinked and dunked his way down the field. If anything I think quickening the pace will be an added benefit for him.


Why is the zone-read Chip Kelly's offense? Why do we have to run that offense? Why can't we run Pat Shurmur's offense? Why did the Eagles trade up to get Matt Barkley if he's going to be useless in the zone-read?

I think all three (Kaepernick, RG3, and Wilson) are better quarterbacks than Michael Vick. And really the reason why those teams are even using that style of offense is because they are young guys who are more acclimated to running that offense and applying their skill-sets.

Could Vick do it? Probably, but if we have the chance to run a pro-style offense that's what I want. I really dislike the zone-read offense and I hope defensive coordinators make those three guys look like clowns this year.

The college level doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence. You give it to your best athletes and watch them run.

The pro level requires intelligence because it puts more of an emphasis on intelligence when physical skillsets are basically equal.

I trust Vick as a playmaker and guy who could light up the scoreboard every so often. But I also trust him as a guy who will turn the ball over at the worst time, get injured at some point in the season (which is a guarantee), and someone who needs help from his team more than the team is going to get help from him.

I also absolutely distrust him anywhere near the playoffs. At some point, Michael Vick is going to need to be a quarterback. And when that day comes, and he could have beat up on a lot of regular season teams, but when that day comes I simply cannot trust the ball in his hands.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do people think they know what Chip is going to run? Confused
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