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With the 62nd Pick in the NFL Draft, Christine Michael
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 10744
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandman55 wrote:
Tooki wrote:
Sandman55 wrote:
SoS wrote:
Not to mention we ran on 55% of our offensive plays last year, high clip in the league. A big bruising back like Lynch with his back issues really isn't going to last forever. We saw what happened with Alexander when he hit his peak and just fell off a cliff. You have no idea when that might happen to Lynch with the way he carries the rock, and for a team that is predicated on the run, you have to have a backup plan.

I can definitely see why people might be upset considering neither of these first 2 picks are likely going to start and that's kinda what you look for in the draft. With that said, the team is doing a great job identifying the areas of the team that could easily be weaknesses with just one injury, and they're crossing their T's.

I tried to echo pre-draft that we wouldn't draft for need. WLB was never likely to be selected with the first 2 picks. OLine would've been nice, but for all we know the team could be VERY high on Sweezy's development (not saying I like that, but whatever).

Though I will say the Jordan Hill selection looks like a need reach...


If Lynch goes down then this pick was smart. Unfortunately, to make it smart it means the Lynch re-signing would've been a mistake.


Marshawn doesn't need to go down to make the pick smart. Is drafting Russell Wilson 'smart' only because Matt Flynn got injured during pre-season and Russell Wilson was the starter by default and ended up being impressive?

Christine Michael is great insurance at a very important position to the team. Michael was a BPA selection at that point in the draft. That's why it was a smart pick. Let the man show what he can do before calling it a bad choice.

Also, remember how powerful the two-headed attack was in Carolina with DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart. Seattle may just have that with Marshawn and Christine.


Honestly?

So in your analogy Michael is Russel Wilson and Flynn is Lynch?

Really? That passes for acceptable logic in your opinion?

Alright, we'll use your analogy but we have to tweak it to make Flynn paid as one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL and actually be one of the most productive, and possibly best quarterbacks in the NFL (since he's Lynch now apparently). We also have to make RW a 2nd round pick rather than a 3rd and assume that he's actually playing a lower value position like RB rather than the most important position on the field QB.

Once we do that, your analogy is perfect.


You missed my point completely. The analogy is flawed (because the QB position was not solidified like Marshawn is at RB) but Russell Wilson only looks like a steal because Matt Flynn got injured and the team was forced to play Wilson. You said yourself, Christine would only look like a smart pick if Marshawn goes down. In an ideal universe, Flynn would have played last year and Russell Wilson wouldn't have gotten a real chance until now.

My whole point was that the pick is insurance in the FO's mind. Marshawn Lynch is one injury away from causing the Cleveland Browns (2011) game to occur again. Just like Christine Michael, Russell Wilson was highly rated on the big board. Wilson got a chance because his competition got injured, and the rest speaks for itself. You want the same thing to prove a silly point.

It also has absolutely nothing to do with contracts. It has to do with the potential of the players and how they will play out over their career. John and Pete said themselves in a press conference that they were not going to draft for needs or starters, they would commit to their big board. I give them kudos to sticking to their guns. I trust John Schneider over anybody on this forum, myself included.

The best teams draft talent over needs. The depth comes up big when injuries occur or a team goes on a Superbowl run.
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Wee-Bey


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 722
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
Sandman55 wrote:
Tooki wrote:
Sandman55 wrote:
SoS wrote:
Not to mention we ran on 55% of our offensive plays last year, high clip in the league. A big bruising back like Lynch with his back issues really isn't going to last forever. We saw what happened with Alexander when he hit his peak and just fell off a cliff. You have no idea when that might happen to Lynch with the way he carries the rock, and for a team that is predicated on the run, you have to have a backup plan.

I can definitely see why people might be upset considering neither of these first 2 picks are likely going to start and that's kinda what you look for in the draft. With that said, the team is doing a great job identifying the areas of the team that could easily be weaknesses with just one injury, and they're crossing their T's.

I tried to echo pre-draft that we wouldn't draft for need. WLB was never likely to be selected with the first 2 picks. OLine would've been nice, but for all we know the team could be VERY high on Sweezy's development (not saying I like that, but whatever).

Though I will say the Jordan Hill selection looks like a need reach...


If Lynch goes down then this pick was smart. Unfortunately, to make it smart it means the Lynch re-signing would've been a mistake.


Marshawn doesn't need to go down to make the pick smart. Is drafting Russell Wilson 'smart' only because Matt Flynn got injured during pre-season and Russell Wilson was the starter by default and ended up being impressive?

Christine Michael is great insurance at a very important position to the team. Michael was a BPA selection at that point in the draft. That's why it was a smart pick. Let the man show what he can do before calling it a bad choice.

Also, remember how powerful the two-headed attack was in Carolina with DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart. Seattle may just have that with Marshawn and Christine.


Honestly?

So in your analogy Michael is Russel Wilson and Flynn is Lynch?

Really? That passes for acceptable logic in your opinion?

Alright, we'll use your analogy but we have to tweak it to make Flynn paid as one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL and actually be one of the most productive, and possibly best quarterbacks in the NFL (since he's Lynch now apparently). We also have to make RW a 2nd round pick rather than a 3rd and assume that he's actually playing a lower value position like RB rather than the most important position on the field QB.

Once we do that, your analogy is perfect.


You missed my point completely. The analogy is flawed (because the QB position was not solidified like Marshawn is at RB) but Russell Wilson only looks like a steal because Matt Flynn got injured and the team was forced to play Wilson. You said yourself, Christine would only look like a smart pick if Marshawn goes down. In an ideal universe, Flynn would have played last year and Russell Wilson wouldn't have gotten a real chance until now.

My whole point was that the pick is insurance in the FO's mind. Marshawn Lynch is one injury away from causing the Cleveland Browns (2011) game to occur again. Just like Christine Michael, Russell Wilson was highly rated on the big board. Wilson got a chance because his competition got injured, and the rest speaks for itself. You want the same thing to prove a silly point.

It also has absolutely nothing to do with contracts. It has to do with the potential of the players and how they will play out over their career. John and Pete said themselves in a press conference that they were not going to draft for needs or starters, they would commit to their big board. I give them kudos to sticking to their guns. I trust John Schneider over anybody on this forum, myself included.

The best teams draft talent over needs. The depth comes up big when injuries occur or a team goes on a Superbowl run.


Would Wilson have been selected with a 3rd had Flynn been a top 3 QB, in the prime of his career, coming off arguably his best season? Despite the jargon of the FA, I have my doubts.

It's also presumptuous to say the elite teams of this league operate within the draft employing identical or even similar philosophies, and wrong. But my dissatisfaction with the pick isn't an indictment on the FA. They have done an excellent job in the draft and will continue to do so, I simply don't agree this particular selection, but I don't have to, and that's ok. I'm comfortable with being wrong, and I'm just a fan besides.

I will pose a question though for the sake of discussion; Say Christine Michael shows promise but doesn't see many carries over the next couple seasons as Marshawn maintains his health and production. Would you be averse to selecting one of T.J. Yeldon, Tod Gurley, or even Keith Marshall or Johnathan Gray in 2015 with a late first, early second should they fall to the Seahawks?
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 10744
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That I cannot answer. This FO drafts purely off their big board. They had Mark Barron ahead of Bruce Irvin in 2012, even though Kam Chancellor is the established SS (and just got paid like one) and he was on the radar of the team for quite a while.

I don't know those players (I don't follow college football a whole ton) but they are all RB's. I would not draft them because their is now depth that I feel confident in. Coming into the draft, the team only had Marshawn Lynch and Robert Turbin. In your situation, there would be Marshawn Lynch, Christine Michael and Robert Turbin (where Michael looks promising and Marshawn is still productive.)

In my eyes, that would be like drafting a high round CB this season. The Hawks have 3 definite starters in Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner and Antoine Winfield. Walter Thurmond III has demonstrated starting production but he is always injured and Byron Maxwell/Jeremy Lane are youngsters with potential themselves.

When Brandon Browner was suspended last year, Jeremy Lane filled in admirably. When Marcus Trufant and Walter Thurmond got injured in 2011, Richard Sherman filled in admirably. This is the kind of insurance that I see in Christine Michael. The best teams have players available at all positions to fill in on a whim.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't compare picking a backup for a top 3 QB to picking a backup for a top 3 RB. The shelf life is shorter and the risk of injury higher
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...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

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LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 10744
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
You can't compare picking a backup for a top 3 QB to picking a backup for a top 3 RB. The shelf life is shorter and the risk of injury higher


I wasn't comparing the positions, I was comparing the situations.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
You can't compare picking a backup for a top 3 QB to picking a backup for a top 3 RB. The shelf life is shorter and the risk of injury higher


I wasn't comparing the positions, I was comparing the situations.
that was more directed at wee-bey. I just think RB is a position where you can never be truly confident in only in one RB.

Again, I'm in love with Michael as a prospect. His natural talent is really high.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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SwiftTexan


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 3877
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my only reservation about the pick is value based on round. Michael might have been the best player on their board but does the value of the position relative to the entire draft meet the value of the pick relative to need.

Here's what I mean - Michael is a great runner. He's talented and if you watch tape on him from early on in his college career you see what he can do with the football in his hands.

But we're sitting here on Day 3 with Marcus Lattimore and Jonathan Franklin still on the board not to mention a long list of other great RBs. So you have to ask yourself if you have a rating on a guy let's say the Hawks had a 82/100 ranking on him. But you have a 78 rating or 77 rating on Lattimore and Franklin. Now you could have pick Larry Warford who you have a 81 rating but Michael is higher. So you take Michael because you want to stay true to your philosophy about taking the best player. But now it's Round 4 and the guard prospect left is Barret Jones and you only have a 70 rating on him. The differential is greater at the guard position for round value than at the RB position in this years draft. Same goes for LB, CB, and DL.

That's why the Michael pick was a headscratcher. Great player but did we get the best possible value relative to the draft as a whole?

EDIT: I like the pick - I'm not trying to be negative. I'm not going to grade this pick until after the 2015 season. Just voicing my initial reaction to the pick. Looking forward to seeing how Pete uses him this year in addition to all the weapons we suddenly have on offense.
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Bigjoe0075


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a little disappointed that we had Authur Brown in our laps and traded out. I think Brown will be a monster for Baltimore and would have filled a need at OLB with 1st round talent. I was also on the Allen to the Hawks bandwagon. but I was more upset we Gave away Brown for a LATE 5th and 6th.

As for Micheal I don't really understand the intent. a #3 RB isn't something I was wanting to grab in the 2nd. Saying that I will keep an open mind and see how he turns out. I think Schnieder mentioned this was going to be a draft for the future.
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hawkman98272


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drafting for need is how teams end up failing, you only draft for need if there are two players rated the same.
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silus


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Schneider already said they drafted Jordan Hill even though he was not the best player on their big board.
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Sacks98


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silus wrote:
John Schneider already said they drafted Jordan Hill even though he was not the best player on their big board.


Yep in his Press Conference he said that if they didn't take Hill and someone else did there was a huge drop off after him.
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Wee-Bey


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silus wrote:
John Schneider already said they drafted Jordan Hill even though he was not the best player on their big board.


Such much for that theory.

Knowing Lattimore was still there in the 3rd, I would have preferred Arthur Brown, Keenan Allen, or even Gavin Escobar with the 2nd round pick, but I'm fine with waiting to see how Michael turns out.

I've been scouting the 2015 RB class, and it's probably the most stacked its been in at least a decade. Yeldon, Gurley, Marshall, Grey and even Barry Sanders Jr. possess star potential. Ill be interested in seeing how Pete approaches the 2015 draft being that he loves dynamic RB's as he does.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
It was a little disappointed that we had Authur Brown in our laps and traded out. I think Brown will be a monster for Baltimore and would have filled a need at OLB with 1st round talent. I was also on the Allen to the Hawks bandwagon. but I was more upset we Gave away Brown for a LATE 5th and 6th.

As for Micheal I don't really understand the intent. a #3 RB isn't something I was wanting to grab in the 2nd. Saying that I will keep an open mind and see how he turns out. I think Schnieder mentioned this was going to be a draft for the future.


I've been saying this over and over again Laughing There was no way in hell we were taking a WLB in the 2nd round. It just wasn't happening. As odd as it sounds, a 3rd string RB was a higher value pick for us than a starting WLB would have been.
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ronjon09


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

introduce him to Starbucks and you should be fine.
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...see guys, being taken out of context is an aggravation. don't do it.Smile
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Brown_Mamba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if this has been pointed out already, but it's Christine Michael, not Christian Michael.
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