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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 6980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
I'm glad we didn't burn a 2nd round pick on a LB because next years class of linebackers is soooo much better and there is more to choose from.


Don't sleep on Mike Mauti. I think he's the type of MIKE backer we were looking for. Hopefully he can get/stay healthy.
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Vikefan79


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
I'm glad we didn't burn a 2nd round pick on a LB because next years class of linebackers is soooo much better and there is more to choose from.


Don't sleep on Mike Mauti. I think he's the type of MIKE backer we were looking for. Hopefully he can get/stay healthy.


If his body doesn't let him down I agree that he's perfect for us. Reminds me of a bulkier Scott Studwell
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Harvey Wallbang


Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 34
Location: Mpls
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why can't fans in general (marginally better here) get that these decisions are not made in a vacuum. A player's value to a team includes so many variables, sometimes least so their absolute talent level. Talent relative to the "average" at the position or replacement cost has to be considered. In the draft, specifically, you need to look at opportunity cost and I think this is an area we do well here on this board but not so elsewhere. Age, upside, fit to team, fit to scheme, and more all play a part.

My perfect mock draft did not have a single one of these players on our team and yet I love this draft, maybe more then my perfect mock.

Yes, I am a homer, aren't we all?

My point is, "there is no such thing as a free lunch"!

Just for fun, here is a quote from a good friend of mine, a very informed NFL fan who, for the record, is NOT a Vikings fan:

"By September there will be plenty of people piling on, but Iím making the call right now. I see the Vikes as the favorite to win the Super Bowl in 2014. This is based on smart free agent moves, 2 consecutive strong draft classes, and momentum from last year. San Francisco and Seattle will be the strongest competition out of the NFC.

In the AFC I like New England, followed by Indianapolis and Denver."



Go vikes!!
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vike daddy


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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody made more noise in this year's draft than the Vikings.

Coming of a surprising run to the playoffs spearheaded by MVP Adrian Peterson, they became the first team since the Rams in 2001 to have three first-round picks. They traded four selections to New England to move up and take Tennessee receiver Cordarrelle Patterson after grabbing Florida defensive tackle Sharrif Floyd and Florida State cornerback Xavier Rhodes.

That's pushing all your chips into the center of the table.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_23129919/nfl-draft-vikings-go-all
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I don't understand how that's "pushing all your chips into the center of the table", considering they still ended up with 6 other picks other than those 3 (and already have 8 picks scheduled for next year, as they have Seattle's 3rd rounder) and potentially could receive add'l comp picks with the losses of:

CB Antoine Winfield (Seattle)
WR Michael Jenkins (NE)
OL Geoff Schwarz (KC)
LB Jasper Brinkley (AZ)
FB Ryan D'Imperio (KC)
SS Husain Abdullah (KC)

and signing of:

QB Matt Cassel (KC)
WR Greg Jennings (GB)
OG Seth Olsen (Ind)
DL Lawrence Jackson (Det)
CB Jacob Lacey (Det)
CB Greg McCoy (AZ)

It would also depend potentially upon which DL they lose next year (if they sign early). I also don't recall if a situation like Antoine Winfield's would be calculated in, considering he was cut, rather than just having his contract run out.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We won't get anything for Winfield as he was cut.
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JMac79


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
I guess I don't understand how that's "pushing all your chips into the center of the table", considering they still ended up with 6 other picks other than those 3 (and already have 8 picks scheduled for next year...


Eh, don't underestimate the drive of a writer to use some sort of memorable quip in their article(s), whether or not it makes much sense...

The Vikings may have "shorted" themselves a bit on picks in this draft due to the Patterson trade, but it shouldn't be a surprise with some of the moves (and even quotes) that Spielman has made in the recent past. I don't remember the exact quote, but I do remember hearing on a few occasions Spielman alluding to draft picks as a means of giving flexibility in the draft, primarily the ability to move up and get the players that you want (now that I write that, I think it was when he was talking about trading up to get Harrison Smith last year). It kind of seems like Spielman's strategy is the other side of the coin to New England's approach; where the Patriots always seem to be moving down and stocking up on picks outside of the 1st round, Spielman has been a guy that uses extra picks to move up into the 1st and 2nd rounds.

In that regard the typical knee-jerk reaction would be "why would you not do it the way the Patriots do it, given all their success?"... but considering that they've seemingly plateaued a bit as a team, there's a good bit of room to question whether that really is the best strategy or not. IMO, an argument could be made that they're an average-to-above average team top-to-bottom by their roster, but one that consistently overachieves due to having a great coach and a great QB; considering that argument, then following the Patriots' draft strategy probably isn't a very sound idea, especially if you don't have at least one of those crucial components firmly in place (a great coach like Bill Belichick, or an established great QB like Tom Brady).
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
We won't get anything for Winfield as he was cut.


That's what I was thinking even as I wrote it, but I'm glad someone else confirmed it. Wink
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fishtanked


Joined: 15 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMac79 wrote:
disaacs wrote:
I guess I don't understand how that's "pushing all your chips into the center of the table", considering they still ended up with 6 other picks other than those 3 (and already have 8 picks scheduled for next year...


Eh, don't underestimate the drive of a writer to use some sort of memorable quip in their article(s), whether or not it makes much sense...

The Vikings may have "shorted" themselves a bit on picks in this draft due to the Patterson trade, but it shouldn't be a surprise with some of the moves (and even quotes) that Spielman has made in the recent past. I don't remember the exact quote, but I do remember hearing on a few occasions Spielman alluding to draft picks as a means of giving flexibility in the draft, primarily the ability to move up and get the players that you want (now that I write that, I think it was when he was talking about trading up to get Harrison Smith last year). It kind of seems like Spielman's strategy is the other side of the coin to New England's approach; where the Patriots always seem to be moving down and stocking up on picks outside of the 1st round, Spielman has been a guy that uses extra picks to move up into the 1st and 2nd rounds.

In that regard the typical knee-jerk reaction would be "why would you not do it the way the Patriots do it, given all their success?"... but considering that they've seemingly plateaued a bit as a team, there's a good bit of room to question whether that really is the best strategy or not. IMO, an argument could be made that they're an average-to-above average team top-to-bottom by their roster, but one that consistently overachieves due to having a great coach and a great QB; considering that argument, then following the Patriots' draft strategy probably isn't a very sound idea, especially if you don't have at least one of those crucial components firmly in place (a great coach like Bill Belichick, or an established great QB like Tom Brady).


Completely agree. Without Bill and Tom the Patriots are a very average team. They haven't drafted very well the past 5-6 years and have fewer and fewer star players every year.

Speilman has spoken before about trying to find Blue chip players at key positions and he seems to be very aggressive when acquiring them. This is why he is so apt to trade up in the first 2 rounds, that's where blue chippers come from.

In the past 2 seasons he has accumulated 5 potential Stars from the first round of the draft, effectively placing the rebuild in a time machine and going forward 3 years. He has also used some later round picks on potential blue chip players that either have injury concerns (Childs, Mauti) or play devalued positions (Walsh, Locke, Ellison).

Role players are easy to find, they become Free agents every year. Stars very rarely make it to the open market and when they do they get paid a fortune. If Rick had a guy like Brady maybe he would adopt an approach similar to BB but since franchise QB's are by far the most difficult thing to acquire he has gone another route.

Imagine how good the Vikings would be this season with Tom Brady at quarterback... Wow... Ok Christian, time to getter done!
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMac79 wrote:
It kind of seems like Spielman's strategy is the other side of the coin to New England's approach; where the Patriots always seem to be moving down and stocking up on picks outside of the 1st round, Spielman has been a guy that uses extra picks to move up into the 1st and 2nd rounds.


I'm really interested to see what happens after Brady retires. Even though they got by that one year with Cassel, I highly doubt that they would have had long-term success if Brady had suffered a career-ender. I actually believe the Patriots are on thin-ice this year. Their drafts haven't been real strong recently. They've done okay with the higher picks, but the later picks have been fairly weak.
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milanb


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
JMac79 wrote:
It kind of seems like Spielman's strategy is the other side of the coin to New England's approach; where the Patriots always seem to be moving down and stocking up on picks outside of the 1st round, Spielman has been a guy that uses extra picks to move up into the 1st and 2nd rounds.


I'm really interested to see what happens after Brady retires. Even though they got by that one year with Cassel, I highly doubt that they would have had long-term success if Brady had suffered a career-ender. I actually believe the Patriots are on thin-ice this year. Their drafts haven't been real strong recently. They've done okay with the higher picks, but the later picks have been fairly weak.


Except that Belichik doesn't always trade down. Last year he traded up in order to get DE Chandler Jones and LB Dont'a Hightower in the 1st, and S Tavon Wilson in the 2nd.

Nor does Spielman always trade up. He traded out of the 1st in 2010. He tried to trade out of the #12 slot in 2011 but couldn't find any takers.

The draft is as much about money and team needs as it is about talent. For the past dozen years Belichik has been in a position where he has typically had to fill multiple roster spots without a lot of cap room, which probably explains his preference for mid-round picks.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VIDEO: Closing In On the Packers?
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 6980
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MINNESOTA VIKINGS: The Vikings pulled off an unlikely triple play by landing three elite prospects in the first round, the result of GM Rick Spielman's ability to cleverly manipulate the draft board. Sharrif Floyd is a disruptive interior defender capable of manning the point at the one- or three-technique position. He collapses the pocket with force, displaying enough athleticism to get to the quarterback up the gut. Xavier Rhodes is a big, physical corner with the size and athleticism to be effective in a press or Cover 2 scheme. Rhodes' size will encourage the Vikings to line him up against the big-bodied receivers (such as Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall) dominating the NFC North. Cordarrelle Patterson is an explosive vertical threat with the speed and burst to blow past defenders on the turf. With Adrian Peterson in the backfield and veteran Greg Jennings functioning as the No. 1 receiver, Patterson should feast on single coverage on the outside. If Patterson can master the go-route, post and comeback, he could wind up leading the NFL in yards per catch as a rookie. GRADE: A+

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000165686/article/nfc-north-draft-grades-vikings-class-packed-with-promise

Other NFC North Grades:
Chicago Bears: C
Detroit Lions: B
Green Bay Packers: B
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what I actually appreciate most of all regarding this particular draft is that they got 3 top-shelf players and while they will contribute this season, 2 of the 3 don't really have to be full-time starters until 2014. Only Rhodes is guaranteed to be a penciled-in starter in 2013...which is a good thing. It will allow them to not have to be desperate in 2014 to make sure that they get a starter at DT or WR early on. They can concentrate on the other holes that will be there (LB) or could be there (DE/QB...if Ponder doesn't pan out/CB if Cook doesn't pan out as its the final year of his rookie contract).
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
I think what I actually appreciate most of all regarding this particular draft is that they got 3 top-shelf players and while they will contribute this season, 2 of the 3 don't really have to be full-time starters until 2014. Only Rhodes is guaranteed to be a penciled-in starter in 2013...which is a good thing. It will allow them to not have to be desperate in 2014 to make sure that they get a starter at DT or WR early on.


Agreed.

What I love most about the guys who won't be pressured to start right away is that they were both projected to go much higher than where we got them. Patterson and especially Floyd will have good reason to come in with chips on their shoulders, and I think we could all be very surprised by how they perform year one.
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