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Would a trade back in the second round be a good move?
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 35468
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
Majorly reaching and doesnt refute my statement in the slightest.

??

Try it again, in English? Wink

Bottom line is this. If you are talking "shut down", you are talking elite prospect. If you are talking elite prospect, you are talking 3 prospects or so total in this entire draft. If Milliner truly was an elite prospect, NYJ would have traded into the top 5 to get him because they would have been afraid of DET taking him. But he was not that important to NYJ OR he just wan't good enough to be afraid of DET taking him because.....he wasn't elite.

And the only way a CB prospect was starting aver Houston from the word get was if he was elite.

Now with NYJ scheme he may very well become that good, but as a prospect he was not and for our scheme he was not. He would have been, at best, our #2 CB to start with which is not even close to a shut down CB. Unless you believe Houston is a shut down CB or that there are 40 or 50 shut down CBs in the NFL. In which case....I got nothing for ya.

Heck, he dropped further than I thought he would TBH. I thought he was 7th or 8th best in this draft. The only reason I said I would understand the pick if DET would take him is he was "close enough" to understand the Lions could have seen him as a top 5 player in the draft.. But I would not be really happy. Clearly several other teams agreed with me or even thought maybe he was a lesser player than I did.
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1King


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
1King wrote:
Majorly reaching and doesnt refute my statement in the slightest.

??

Try it again, in English? Wink

Bottom line is this. If you are talking "shut down", you are talking elite prospect. If you are talking elite prospect, you are talking 3 prospects or so total in this entire draft. If Milliner truly was an elite prospect, NYJ would have traded into the top 5 to get him because they would have been afraid of DET taking him. But he was not that important to NYJ OR he just wan't good enough to be afraid of DET taking him because.....he wasn't elite.

And the only way a CB prospect was starting aver Houston from the word get was if he was elite.

Now with NYJ scheme he may very well become that good, but as a prospect he was not and for our scheme he was not. He would have been, at best, our #2 CB to start with which is not even close to a shut down CB. Unless you believe Houston is a shut down CB or that there are 40 or 50 shut down CBs in the NFL. In which case....I got nothing for ya.

Heck, he dropped further than I thought he would TBH. I thought he was 7th or 8th best in this draft. The only reason I said I would understand the pick if DET would take him is he was "close enough" to understand the Lions could have seen him as a top 5 player in the draft.. But I would not be really happy. Clearly several other teams agreed with me or even thought maybe he was a lesser player than I did.


You said Dee was only taken at #9 because the Jets went for need otherwise he would have fallen further. I said, you could argue the only reason he fell to #9 was because teams above the Jets reached for need.

I dont like the term "shut down corner" but Milliner was 1 of the only CB's in this class (possibly the only one) that has the potential to be a #1 CB in the NFL, though he isn't a perfect prospect. I dont think he would immediately be the #1 CB here, but he would easily be the #2 CB and starter from day 1, shifting Bentely to Nickel full time, Green to the #4 CB and allow us to develop and bring Greenwood along slowly. Obviously doesnt matter now, but that's how I viewed it for pretty much the entire process.
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
You said Dee was only taken at #9 because the Jets went for need otherwise he would have fallen further. I said, you could argue the only reason he fell to #9 was because teams above the Jets reached for need.

I dont like the term "shut down corner" but Milliner was 1 of the only CB's in this class (possibly the only one) that has the potential to be a #1 CB in the NFL, though he isn't a perfect prospect. I dont think he would immediately be the #1 CB here, but he would easily be the #2 CB and starter from day 1, shifting Bentely to Nickel full time, Green to the #4 CB and allow us to develop and bring Greenwood along slowly. Obviously doesnt matter now, but that's how I viewed it for pretty much the entire process.

Really no arguments with most any of that. Although I think Milliner would be nickel to start and would likely work his way up to #2 before reg season. And I think 2 of Saban's buddies picking above #9 shows it was unlikely he fell due to need.

But however one argues it, fine, bottom line is he is not a shut down prospect and never was. Which was my only point in the first place. The details were trivial only to point out he was not a shut down prospect.
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Chups


Joined: 17 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
1King wrote:
You said Dee was only taken at #9 because the Jets went for need otherwise he would have fallen further. I said, you could argue the only reason he fell to #9 was because teams above the Jets reached for need.

I dont like the term "shut down corner" but Milliner was 1 of the only CB's in this class (possibly the only one) that has the potential to be a #1 CB in the NFL, though he isn't a perfect prospect. I dont think he would immediately be the #1 CB here, but he would easily be the #2 CB and starter from day 1, shifting Bentely to Nickel full time, Green to the #4 CB and allow us to develop and bring Greenwood along slowly. Obviously doesnt matter now, but that's how I viewed it for pretty much the entire process.

Really no arguments with most any of that. Although I think Milliner would be nickel to start and would likely work his way up to #2 before reg season. And I think 2 of Saban's buddies picking above #9 shows it was unlikely he fell due to need.

But however one argues it, fine, bottom line is he is not a shut down prospect and never was. Which was my only point in the first place. The details were trivial only to point out he was not a shut down prospect.


I don't think a team takes a cornerback prospect in the top 10 unless they have "shut down" potential. You can hate on Milliner all you want, the fact is the kid is a great prospect with extremely high potential.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chups wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
1King wrote:
You said Dee was only taken at #9 because the Jets went for need otherwise he would have fallen further. I said, you could argue the only reason he fell to #9 was because teams above the Jets reached for need.

I dont like the term "shut down corner" but Milliner was 1 of the only CB's in this class (possibly the only one) that has the potential to be a #1 CB in the NFL, though he isn't a perfect prospect. I dont think he would immediately be the #1 CB here, but he would easily be the #2 CB and starter from day 1, shifting Bentely to Nickel full time, Green to the #4 CB and allow us to develop and bring Greenwood along slowly. Obviously doesnt matter now, but that's how I viewed it for pretty much the entire process.

Really no arguments with most any of that. Although I think Milliner would be nickel to start and would likely work his way up to #2 before reg season. And I think 2 of Saban's buddies picking above #9 shows it was unlikely he fell due to need.

But however one argues it, fine, bottom line is he is not a shut down prospect and never was. Which was my only point in the first place. The details were trivial only to point out he was not a shut down prospect.


I don't think a team takes a cornerback prospect in the top 10 unless they have "shut down" potential. You can hate on Milliner all you want, the fact is the kid is a great prospect with extremely high potential.

Maybe in a different draft. All CB prospects have shut down potential. But a CB prospect with realistic shut down potential is elite. All the elite prospects in this draft were gone by (#2 IMO) #5, if he was elite, he would have been as well. If this draft had 10 elite prospects, I would agree. But it didn't. As a matter of fact, that is all you heard leading up to the draft was the lack of said players and noone ever alluded to Milliner in such a manner, except you.
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