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1st Round (26): Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10416
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
spilltray wrote:
To be put on the PUP though, a player can't practice AT ALL in training camp. That basically means you are taking him out of football from now until week 6 in the regular season. That's just stupid unless you think he needs all of that time to recover. If he is even able to be a partial participant at the start of training camp, he isn't going to end up on the PUP.
He tore his ACL on December 30th. Him being able to practice during TC is some very long odds. This isn't AP or RGIII. Big guys have to support a lot more weight on a repaired knee so it takes longer to heal up 100%. People thinking it's a lock he is ready for week one are very naive. I would be shocked if we see him not land on the PUP.


Other than the McGinn BS article, there is nothing to suggest he completely tore his ACL. He had an ACL tear yes. Even a sprain is technically a tear. From everything I've heard, and have heard this echoed elsewhere, it was a relatively minor knee injury. The kind some people go through early in the season and return to play that year. Then he went to Dr Andrews for the surgery, ACL surgery, to repair an ACL tear, and the immediate assumption from McGinn, based on one Adam Schefter tweet is that he must have had a full ACL reconstruction. There is nothing, anywhere to confirm this is the case, but it's the only "news" story out there. Now you have things like Worthy's tweets about being excited to "get to work" for the recent mini camp, and him hoping to be fully good to go to start TC, it really sounds like this is something that is WAY more minor than is being sold currently, but knowing how the Packers run things, they like the wrong assumptions and aren't going to go out of their way to correct things.
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 13940
Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
spilltray wrote:
To be put on the PUP though, a player can't practice AT ALL in training camp. That basically means you are taking him out of football from now until week 6 in the regular season. That's just stupid unless you think he needs all of that time to recover. If he is even able to be a partial participant at the start of training camp, he isn't going to end up on the PUP.
He tore his ACL on December 30th. Him being able to practice during TC is some very long odds. This isn't AP or RGIII. Big guys have to support a lot more weight on a repaired knee so it takes longer to heal up 100%. People thinking it's a lock he is ready for week one are very naive. I would be shocked if we see him not land on the PUP.


Other than the McGinn BS article, there is nothing to suggest he completely tore his ACL. He had an ACL tear yes. Even a sprain is technically a tear. From everything I've heard, and have heard this echoed elsewhere, it was a relatively minor knee injury. The kind some people go through early in the season and return to play that year. Then he went to Dr Andrews for the surgery, ACL surgery, to repair an ACL tear, and the immediate assumption from McGinn, based on one Adam Schefter tweet is that he must have had a full ACL reconstruction. There is nothing, anywhere to confirm this is the case, but it's the only "news" story out there. Now you have things like Worthy's tweets about being excited to "get to work" for the recent mini camp, and him hoping to be fully good to go to start TC, it really sounds like this is something that is WAY more minor than is being sold currently, but knowing how the Packers run things, they like the wrong assumptions and aren't going to go out of their way to correct things.
Good points. There IS a lot about his injury we don't know. If it was a full tear, I don't see him being ready for the season. We really don't know the extent of the injury so there is some guess work.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
If it was a full tear, I don't see him being ready for the season. We really don't know the extent of the injury so there is some guess work.


Everything I've heard in interviews and that I can find, sound like it wasn't a full tear. The only thing to suggest it isn't so far has been McGinn who is a pretty obvious hack. I expect him to start TC in a somewhat limited fashion, because our medical staff is careful, and be full participation for the 3rd preseason game barring further injury or setbacks. Either way, I don't expect him to miss all of training camp, much less end up on the PUP.
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
If it was a full tear, I don't see him being ready for the season. We really don't know the extent of the injury so there is some guess work.


Everything I've heard in interviews and that I can find, sound like it wasn't a full tear. The only thing to suggest it isn't so far has been McGinn who is a pretty obvious hack. I expect him to start TC in a somewhat limited fashion, because our medical staff is careful, and be full participation for the 3rd preseason game barring further injury or setbacks. Either way, I don't expect him to miss all of training camp, much less end up on the PUP.
Hope you're right. The depth would be excellent on the D-line of he can be ready for the season.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I love the idea of going forward with a front 7 lined up like this



Matthews - Worthy - Bishop - Raji - Hawk - Jones - Perry

That length of Jones and Perry with some length and the ability to drive the line into the QB with Worthy and Matthews disrupting and penetrating on the blind side... shudder for opposing QBs and OLs
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AaronCharles


Joined: 13 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

‏@PackerReport now
Could really see small-school bonanza for #Packers today. Patton, Wilcox and Brandon Williams in play in Day 2.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1915
Location: MKE
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
BTW, I love the idea of going forward with a front 7 lined up like this



Matthews - Worthy - Bishop - Raji - Hawk - Jones - Perry

That length of Jones and Perry with some length and the ability to drive the line into the QB with Worthy and Matthews disrupting and penetrating on the blind side... shudder for opposing QBs and OLs


If they can stay healthy. Which right now might be an issue for Worthy. #ThatGuy
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 12565
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
BTW, I love the idea of going forward with a front 7 lined up like this



Matthews - Worthy - Bishop - Raji - Hawk - Jones - Perry

That length of Jones and Perry with some length and the ability to drive the line into the QB with Worthy and Matthews disrupting and penetrating on the blind side... shudder for opposing QBs and OLs


If they can stay healthy. Which right now might be an issue for Worthy. #ThatGuy


Ok...Insert Wilson on run downs and Daniels on pass downs.


Or the Mike Neal that finished 2012 like a beast.
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deathstar


Joined: 06 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendeleev wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
First things first, Ted is becoming quite predictable. In the first round, unless he's going after a premium position (QB, pass rusher) he's going to grab a lineman. AJ Hawk was the only exception to this rule. I've had Datone Jones penciled in as the Packers' pick for about a month now.
The reasoning behind this is so bad.

Out of 9 draft picks, 5 were lineman. Before this year, only 4 out of 8. Then you try to shore up your argument with saying other than premium positions and AJ Hawk, this theory is 100% accurate. Straight out of Anchorman. Not only that, since 7-8 out of 22 starters are lineman, you would think that 5 out of 9 picks being lineman actually makes sense. Couple that with the fact that every draft has a disproportionate number of lineman going in the 1st round, this is not unique. You haven't figured out some pattern, sorry.

Edit: Did I mention there is only a sample size of 9?


How about this: our average first round pick weighs 280 lbs.
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deathstar


Joined: 06 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the full/partial tear stuff with the ACL. I don't think you guys are looking at it accurately. Ligaments don't repair themselves like muscles. A lot of times they will treat a partial tear like a full tear. The times they don't, and they don't do surgery, is when they think that the ligament should be okay to play on AS IS. In those cases the recovery time is shorter because you're mostly waiting for the swelling to go down and getting your range of motion back. Since Worthy had surgery, I'm betting they went ahead and repaired the whole thing.

Source: I'm a vet tech and orthopedic surgeries are very common because our culture likes to overfeed animals and make them run around.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
First things first, Ted is becoming quite predictable. In the first round, unless he's going after a premium position (QB, pass rusher) he's going to grab a lineman. AJ Hawk was the only exception to this rule. I've had Datone Jones penciled in as the Packers' pick for about a month now.

That being said, he's the near ideal fit for what the Packers want to do especially on third down. Ted clearly put a premium on 3rd down play, so grabbing Datone Jones is no surprise at all.
I will say this, I would build like Thompson builds. IMO 1st round picks are for, QB's, Protecting the QB, and getting after the other teams QB. Football is still a game won and lost in the trenches. Yes you need a QB, that is a fact, but you best be able to protect him and kill the other one. I love what Thompson is doing.

PS - This is a very, very clear message. Dom, you better have your ish together and on your A game, because if the defense flops again, you are done. Our first 6 picks last year and now the 1st one again this year. This defense better be ELITE, we have a ton of excellent athletes and proven players this thing better come together.


Isn't this what so many of us were saying all these weeks - that we need to shore up the trenches? And it won't hurt that we added speed on our D line too. Since the playoff loss to SF we've been moaning about getting shredded by Kaepernick and company and hopefully Jones will help address that weakness of ours. Smile
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at some of Jones's numbers: 10-yard split: 1.61, Shuttle: 4.32, Cone: 7.32

I'm starting to think that maybe we go 7 DL and light on OLBs.

I mean, it's not like Jones can't move like some of the guys we've had at OLB (He matches Zombo and Moses's 1.61 10 yard split, and he beats Moses, Perry, and Zombo in the shuttle.)
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blueswedeshoes


Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 1455
Location: WisKAHNsin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deathstar wrote:
...I'm a vet tech and orthopedic surgeries are very common because our culture likes to overfeed animals and make them run around.


The Packers' training staff should leave animals alone.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this selection. The big thing that he brings is not only scheme versatility but a propensity to penetrate and get in the backfield. Fast (4.8?) and athletic enough to be a big disruption for read option teams.

Hopefully he transitions well and can hold the point in the ground game, but I don't see this as a problem as the natural strength appears to be there and in excess.

Absolutely ecstatic about this kid. He'll complement Raji well and add something we haven't seen since Cullen.

Also something I want to point out: seems like a very, very well spoken and thoughtful individual. Not the most important thing, but something that's always great to have. That mindset can make him elite.
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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blueswedeshoes


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
I love this selection. The big thing that he brings is not only scheme versatility but a propensity to penetrate and get in the backfield. Fast (4.8?) and athletic enough to be a big disruption for read option teams.

Hopefully he transitions well and can hold the point in the ground game, but I don't see this as a problem as the natural strength appears to be there and in excess.

Absolutely ecstatic about this kid. He'll complement Raji well and add something we haven't seen since Cullen.

Also something I want to point out: seems like a very, very well spoken and thoughtful individual. Not the most important thing, but something that's always great to have. That mindset can make him elite.


I have moved a long way and am now closer to your position. Before the draft, based on the very feeble input of watching Youtube video, I really didn't like the guy. He was disruptive, yes, but he was such a maniac he ran himself right out of plays.

As I factor in the data that I am an idiot and TT is a genius I am feeling better about the pick.
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