Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Report/Rumor: Lions want #3 if OT falls
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
imBlackSheep


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Rochester
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
So was Brees a good pick?

He was a decent player for the Chargers, so he was a decent pick.

So let me get this straight, IF a player selected at that time is only average for the team whom drafted him after a given number of years but then goes to another team and then does well he isn't considered a bust for the team that drafted him ?

Is that correct ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imBlackSheep wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
So was Brees a good pick?

He was a decent player for the Chargers, so he was a decent pick.

So let me get this straight, IF a player selected at that time is only average for the team whom drafted him after a given number of years but then goes to another team and then does well he isn't considered a bust for the team that drafted him ?

Is that correct ?

Being average doesn't necessarily make a player a "bust", so yeah, I'd agree with that.

Take Brees for example. He started 58 games for the Chargers, threw for 12,348 yards, 80 TDs and 53 INTs. Is he a bust because the Chargers let him walk away? Absolutely not. He was a decent player, and therefore a decent pick.

If a player leaves his original team and has more success elsewhere, isn't that often a reflection of the coaching and/or roster of both teams? They took a quality player, but failed to develop him properly. Does that make it a bad pick? No. It's a good pick for a bad organization.

If a player is terrible and finds success later for a different team, he was a bust for the team that drafted him. Absolutely. That's not the case with Pettigrew, and if we re-sign him, and he's a good player, he'll be a good pick.
_________________


Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 34952
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to know how one goes about scouting whether the guy is going to re-sign or not 5 years down the road. Since that goes into how good a pick he was.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
I just want to know how one goes about scouting whether the guy is going to re-sign or not 5 years down the road. Since that goes into how good a pick he was.

Oh. If that's your problem, the answer is simple: as I've already stated, I evaluate the quality of a pick by how the player performs on the field. Picks should not be graded at the time of the draft, but years down the road.

But it makes sens that you'd feel that way, considering Pettigrew will always be regarded as a bad pick by many here because they hated the pick at the time.
_________________


Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
imBlackSheep


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Rochester
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
imBlackSheep wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
So was Brees a good pick?

He was a decent player for the Chargers, so he was a decent pick.

So let me get this straight, IF a player selected at that time is only average for the team whom drafted him after a given number of years but then goes to another team and then does well he isn't considered a bust for the team that drafted him ?

Is that correct ?

Being average doesn't necessarily make a player a "bust", so yeah, I'd agree with that.

Take Brees for example. He started 58 games for the Chargers, threw for 12,348 yards, 80 TDs and 53 INTs. Is he a bust because the Chargers let him walk away? Absolutely not. He was a decent player, and therefore a decent pick.

If a player leaves his original team and has more success elsewhere, isn't that often a reflection of the coaching and/or roster of both teams? They took a quality player, but failed to develop him properly. Does that make it a bad pick? No. It's a good pick for a bad organization.

If a player is terrible and finds success later for a different team, he was a bust for the team that drafted him. Absolutely. That's not the case with Pettigrew, and if we re-sign him, and he's a good player, he'll be a good pick.


Or it could be he wasn't really a fit for the scheme and was playing out of position. IMO if he was a average to below average player for the team that draft him to me was a bust for "that" team. He may not be a bust in the sense of his career turning around but for the team that took him, groomed him, put talent around him, and he still doesn't do much he is a bust. That and I don't want 'average" for a player that I picked in the Top 15 or something and invested heavily in him.

As far as Pettigrew is concerned, that is a lot of IFs involved. He does have flashes of his ability, I don't deny that but for his ability he still flashes just as many inconsistencies and in my opinion that might be tombstone for him being slightly above average to average. The way I see it has only been solid in his career and solid to me is expendable if find someone with better talent and provides better value.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skatebeanz


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 19077
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@davebirkett5m
If Fisher goes No. 1 & the Lions somehow get their choice of the next 2 OTs, it wouldn't surprise me if they took Lane Johnson over Joeckel

_________________

Sig bet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 34952
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I just want to know how one goes about scouting whether the guy is going to re-sign or not 5 years down the road. Since that goes into how good a pick he was.

Oh. If that's your problem, the answer is simple: as I've already stated, I evaluate the quality of a pick by how the player performs on the field. Picks should not be graded at the time of the draft, but years down the road.

But it makes sens that you'd feel that way, considering Pettigrew will always be regarded as a bad pick by many here because they hated the pick at the time.

You have to judge a pick by the end of his first contract. Because that is all you are drafting for and what you are drafting for is all you can judge a pick on.

But it makes sense you would try to spin it another way since you are a world reknowned apologist Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
skatebeanz


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 19077
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@davebirkett1m
Offensive linemen have never gone 1-2-3 in the draft, but it could happen tonight. The Lions could move up to No. 3.

_________________

Sig bet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
imBlackSheep


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Rochester
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
Quote:
@davebirkett5m
If Fisher goes No. 1 & the Lions somehow get their choice of the next 2 OTs, it wouldn't surprise me if they took Lane Johnson over Joeckel


Do not want, I'm hoping its Brian Winters in the mid to late 2nd round. Very versatile OL from Kent State whom can play both RG and RT. He'd be solid as a RT and very, very, good as a RG I think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imBlackSheep wrote:
As far as Pettigrew is concerned, that is a lot of IFs involved. He does have flashes of his ability, I don't deny that but for his ability he still flashes just as many inconsistencies and in my opinion that might be tombstone for him being slightly above average to average. The way I see it has only been solid in his career and solid to me is expendable if find someone with better talent and provides better value.

Sure, he's expendable. I'm not arguing otherwise.

Do you think that Pettigrew is a bust, and was a horrible pick?
_________________


Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I just want to know how one goes about scouting whether the guy is going to re-sign or not 5 years down the road. Since that goes into how good a pick he was.

Oh. If that's your problem, the answer is simple: as I've already stated, I evaluate the quality of a pick by how the player performs on the field. Picks should not be graded at the time of the draft, but years down the road.

But it makes sens that you'd feel that way, considering Pettigrew will always be regarded as a bad pick by many here because they hated the pick at the time.

You have to judge a pick by the end of his first contract. Because that is all you are drafting for and what you are drafting for is all you can judge a pick on.

But it makes sense you would try to spin it another way since you are a world reknowned apologist Laughing

What?

First of all, why attempt to make this personal? Why is that always where this has to go?

If Pettigrew never leaves our team, and is a good player, he's a good pick. If he was terrible this year, regarded as a bust, re-signed, and became an All-Pro, no one would call him a "bust". It just wouldn't happen.
_________________


Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This conversation made me think about another player: Aaron Rodgers. Many labeled him a "bust" and "wasted pick" because he played minimally during his first 3 years.
Quote:
Hey, there's no doubt in my mind Rodgers was a wasted pick.

Quote:
Merrill Hodge thinks Aaron Rodgers is already a wasted pick and has no talent.

Quote:
Aaron Rodgers was a wasted pick, where there were other QBs in the draft you could have waited for, like Kyle Orton, and you had a much more pressing need elsewhere. What a waste.

It's typical fan reaction, but isn't rational in the least bit.
_________________


Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
imBlackSheep


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Rochester
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
imBlackSheep wrote:
As far as Pettigrew is concerned, that is a lot of IFs involved. He does have flashes of his ability, I don't deny that but for his ability he still flashes just as many inconsistencies and in my opinion that might be tombstone for him being slightly above average to average. The way I see it has only been solid in his career and solid to me is expendable if find someone with better talent and provides better value.

Sure, he's expendable. I'm not arguing otherwise.

Do you think that Pettigrew is a bust, and was a horrible pick?


For where he was picked and what we could have done with the players around him I don't believe he warranted the 20th overall pick so to an extent yeah. He has put up some very impressive statistics and has the skill to be quite good, but his drops that come around the worst times just kill me and his inconsistencies, especially looking at players like Graham, Gronkowski, and Hernandez and where they were selected and what they have done. He is a good player, but his play to me doesn't warrant 20th overall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imBlackSheep wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
imBlackSheep wrote:
As far as Pettigrew is concerned, that is a lot of IFs involved. He does have flashes of his ability, I don't deny that but for his ability he still flashes just as many inconsistencies and in my opinion that might be tombstone for him being slightly above average to average. The way I see it has only been solid in his career and solid to me is expendable if find someone with better talent and provides better value.

Sure, he's expendable. I'm not arguing otherwise.

Do you think that Pettigrew is a bust, and was a horrible pick?


For where he was picked and what we could have done with the players around him I don't believe he warranted the 20th overall pick so to an extent yeah. He has put up some very impressive statistics and has the skill to be quite good, but his drops that come around the worst times just kill me and his inconsistencies, especially looking at players like Graham, Gronkowski, and Hernandez and where they were selected and what they have done. He is a good player, but his play to me doesn't warrant 20th overall.

That's interesting. In my opinion, and considering bust rates, if you're a "good" player at pick #20, you're a good pick. (Not to mention that, if he shores up some of the mental lapses, he propels himself up the list substantially.)
_________________


Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 15019
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
This conversation made me think about another player: Aaron Rodgers. Many labeled him a "bust" and "wasted pick" because he played minimally during his first 3 years.
Quote:
Hey, there's no doubt in my mind Rodgers was a wasted pick.

Quote:
Merrill Hodge thinks Aaron Rodgers is already a wasted pick and has no talent.

Quote:
Aaron Rodgers was a wasted pick, where there were other QBs in the draft you could have waited for, like Kyle Orton, and you had a much more pressing need elsewhere. What a waste.

It's typical fan reaction, but isn't rational in the least bit.
I don't see the comparison. Rodgers didn't even play, plus he was behind Brett freaking Farve.

Grew has been a starter the entire time in a pass happy offense, he's put into a situation where we could've gotten the same production out of Will Heller. A great many fans knew even before the Draft that he wasn't a first round talent, and he's proven us right.

You seem to take positional value into account, since you're in favor of trading away picks to move up for a LT. Well taking positional value into account, a blocking TE with poor hands, speed, and athletic ability- Grew has to be considered horrible value at #20 overall.It was like taking a FB #20 overall and trying to convince people he was BPA.

Not gonna happen.
_________________
Oh no, we suck again
- Calvin's out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 9 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group