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Report/Rumor: Lions want #3 if OT falls
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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Location: Flat Rock, Mi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish: do you think, considering his draft position, Vernon Davis is a bust?
No, I feel he is a victim of circumstance, whereas Pettigrew is a beneficiary of circumstances.

Oh.

In 2009 (ironically 4 years ago to the day) you listed him among the 1st round TEs that weren't even close to being worth their draft position.

Davis struggled during his first few years in the league, and you would have disliked him just the same.
stylish313 wrote:
2008- Dustin Keller- NYJ
2007- Greg Olsen- Chi
2006- Vernon Davis- SF
2006- Mercedes Lewis- Jac
2005- Heath Miller- Pit* Maybe worth the pick, but not for the Lions
2004- Kellen Winslow- Clev- Idiot
2004- Ben Watson- NE- Receiver only
2003- Dallas Clark- Ind- has not lived up to the hype in Ind
2002- Jeremy Shockey- NYG- arrogant, not as good as he thought
2002- Daniel Graham- NE
2002- Jeremy Stevens- Sea
2001- Todd Heap- Bal- soft, injury prone
2000- Bubba Franks- GB
2000- Anthony Becht- NYJ

Do I really need to continue? Maybe Heath and Shockey was close to worth the pick.........but not for our team. This is the worst position to draft when you just flat out suck. And most of these TE's were drafted by good teams......and still busted. I hate the pick, and Mayhew just out-smarted himself.
EDIT: These were all 1st round selections................Just stupid I tell you
My point in all of this is that Pettigrew was never gonna be any sort of an threat offensively, which would make his 1st round selection destined to be a disaster. DHLF provided the reasoning above, the Lion's were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be that all-around TE if you're slow, have lazy hands, and pretty much no ability to break big plays. It was a horrible selection then, and it still is now. And what we've found out after the fact is that his blocking was overstated from the beginning.

Vernon Davis always had the potential to become an elite receiving threat. Just being selected by San Fran was always gonna make that near impossible to achieve.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25821
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
My point in all of this is that Pettigrew was never gonna be any sort of an threat offensively, which would make his 1st round selection destined to be a disaster. DHLF provided the reasoning above, the Lion's were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be that all-around TE if you're slow, have lazy hands, and pretty much no ability to break big plays. It was a horrible selection then, and it still is now. And what we've found out after the fact is that his blocking was overstated from the beginning.

That's exactly it We don't need an "elite receiving threat" from our TE. They didn't want it. Pettigrew wasn't drafted to be it. We had - and have - Calvin. We're adding weapons to the WRs, to the RBs... those are clearly the areas where they want explosiveness.

Calvin on one side. A fast WR on the other. A dangerous RB in the backfield. And a versatile 6'6" TE on the line, who can either fill in as an extra linemen, or provide a big target in the short game. That's exactly the part of the field left open by the rest of our talent, and the exact part this offense is trying to utilize.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
My point in all of this is that Pettigrew was never gonna be any sort of an threat offensively, which would make his 1st round selection destined to be a disaster. DHLF provided the reasoning above, the Lion's were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be that all-around TE if you're slow, have lazy hands, and pretty much no ability to break big plays. It was a horrible selection then, and it still is now. And what we've found out after the fact is that his blocking was overstated from the beginning.

That's exactly it We don't need an "elite receiving threat" from our TE. They didn't want it. Pettigrew wasn't drafted to be it. We had - and have - Calvin. We're adding weapons to the WRs, to the RBs... those are clearly the areas where they want explosiveness.

Calvin on one side. A fast WR on the other. A dangerous RB in the backfield. And a versatile 6'6" TE on the line, who can either fill in as an extra linemen, or provide a big target in the short game. That's exactly the part of the field left open by the rest of our talent, and the exact part this offense is trying to utilize.
Whatever it is that we need, Pettigrew wasn't good enough and has not been good enough, to be deemed anything else but a horrible selection.
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LION KING


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lions have a ton of needs OT, DE, LB, CB, WR


Its clear we can get one of these positions filled at 5 so either stay there and make the selection or trade back and load up some picks even if we get a 1 next year in the deal! Wink
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
My point in all of this is that Pettigrew was never gonna be any sort of an threat offensively, which would make his 1st round selection destined to be a disaster. DHLF provided the reasoning above, the Lion's were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be that all-around TE if you're slow, have lazy hands, and pretty much no ability to break big plays. It was a horrible selection then, and it still is now. And what we've found out after the fact is that his blocking was overstated from the beginning.

That's exactly it We don't need an "elite receiving threat" from our TE. They didn't want it. Pettigrew wasn't drafted to be it. We had - and have - Calvin. We're adding weapons to the WRs, to the RBs... those are clearly the areas where they want explosiveness.

Calvin on one side. A fast WR on the other. A dangerous RB in the backfield. And a versatile 6'6" TE on the line, who can either fill in as an extra linemen, or provide a big target in the short game. That's exactly the part of the field left open by the rest of our talent, and the exact part this offense is trying to utilize.
Whatever it is that we need, Pettigrew wasn't good enough and has not been good enough, to be deemed anything else but a horrible selection.

Just like Vernon Davis, if Pettigrew cleans up his mental lapses, he can improve as a player. It's way too early to write him off, and, considering he has still been very productive, he's nowhere close to being a "horrible selection".
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 35468
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
My point in all of this is that Pettigrew was never gonna be any sort of an threat offensively, which would make his 1st round selection destined to be a disaster. DHLF provided the reasoning above, the Lion's were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be that all-around TE if you're slow, have lazy hands, and pretty much no ability to break big plays. It was a horrible selection then, and it still is now. And what we've found out after the fact is that his blocking was overstated from the beginning.

That's exactly it We don't need an "elite receiving threat" from our TE. They didn't want it. Pettigrew wasn't drafted to be it. We had - and have - Calvin. We're adding weapons to the WRs, to the RBs... those are clearly the areas where they want explosiveness.

Calvin on one side. A fast WR on the other. A dangerous RB in the backfield. And a versatile 6'6" TE on the line, who can either fill in as an extra linemen, or provide a big target in the short game. That's exactly the part of the field left open by the rest of our talent, and the exact part this offense is trying to utilize.
Whatever it is that we need, Pettigrew wasn't good enough and has not been good enough, to be deemed anything else but a horrible selection.

Just like Vernon Davis, if Pettigrew cleans up his mental lapses, he can improve as a player. It's way too early to write him off, and, considering he has still been very productive, he's nowhere close to being a "horrible selection".

Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

He might not even be here next year. If he does great and becomes the best TE in history for another team, he still was a bad pick for us. So judging a pick can not go beyond the first contract.

Judging him as a player, there is plenty of time for him to reconcile himself. He still has 5+ years before it is time to retire.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

Wait. If we keep him, and he becomes a great player, he's still a bad selection?
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

Wait. If we keep him, and he becomes a great player, he's still a bad selection?

Absolutely. Because you have absolutely no way of projecting if he will re-sign here or not. All you can count on, draft for, expect, or judge the selection on is his first contract.

Would you say Drew Brees was a good pick for the Chargers?
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

Wait. If we keep him, and he becomes a great player, he's still a bad selection?

Absolutely. Because you have absolutely no way of projecting if he will re-sign here or not. All you can count on, draft for, expect, or judge the selection on is his first contract.

Would you say Drew Brees was a good pick for the Chargers?

If Brees stayed with the Chargers and was who he is now: absolutely. I don't think anyone would disagree.

If Pettigrew is re-signed, and is a good/great player, he was a good pick.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

Wait. If we keep him, and he becomes a great player, he's still a bad selection?

Absolutely. Because you have absolutely no way of projecting if he will re-sign here or not. All you can count on, draft for, expect, or judge the selection on is his first contract.

Would you say Drew Brees was a good pick for the Chargers?

If Brees stayed with the Chargers and was who he is now: absolutely. I don't think anyone would disagree.

If Pettigrew is re-signed, and is a good/great player, he was a good pick.

So it is your opinion that a pick's value changes with whether the player re-signs or not? How precisely are you supposed to evaluate that when you make the selection?
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

Wait. If we keep him, and he becomes a great player, he's still a bad selection?

Absolutely. Because you have absolutely no way of projecting if he will re-sign here or not. All you can count on, draft for, expect, or judge the selection on is his first contract.

Would you say Drew Brees was a good pick for the Chargers?

If Brees stayed with the Chargers and was who he is now: absolutely. I don't think anyone would disagree.

If Pettigrew is re-signed, and is a good/great player, he was a good pick.

So it is your opinion that a pick's value changes with whether the player re-signs or not? How precisely are you supposed to evaluate that when you make the selection?

What? No. My opinion of a player is based strictly on how good or bad that player is for their franchise. Period.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
Considering he is in the last year of his contract and he hasn't done so yet, he was a bad selection.

Wait. If we keep him, and he becomes a great player, he's still a bad selection?

Absolutely. Because you have absolutely no way of projecting if he will re-sign here or not. All you can count on, draft for, expect, or judge the selection on is his first contract.

Would you say Drew Brees was a good pick for the Chargers?

If Brees stayed with the Chargers and was who he is now: absolutely. I don't think anyone would disagree.

If Pettigrew is re-signed, and is a good/great player, he was a good pick.

So it is your opinion that a pick's value changes with whether the player re-signs or not? How precisely are you supposed to evaluate that when you make the selection?

What? No. My opinion of a player is based strictly on how good or bad that player is for their franchise. Period.

So was Brees a good pick?
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
So was Brees a good pick?

He was a decent player for the Chargers, so he was a decent pick.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
So was Brees a good pick?

He was a decent player for the Chargers, so he was a decent pick.

Laughing

You are so funny when you can't concede you're wrong.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rocket wrote:
No this is completely dumb. We are NOT a franchise LT away from turning our 4 and 12 record around. We can't afford to lose picks. We have many holes to fill. Yeah it would be nice to get a franchise LT but it's not worth it.
We are right there... I mentioned doing this before. I don't think it will cost as much in this draft. I think it will cost us our 3rd and player. Lts are pretty hard to get when your picking in the middle of the pack..the raiders or whoever we would trade with would still get their guy anyway. I think it makes alot of sence..not like our 3rdp is going to change our record...bc i highly doubt mayhew isnt stupid enough to trade our 2nd
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