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Interesting Analysis Article: Jordan vs. Mingo
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jetsmarine26


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
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Location: afghanistan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Interesting Analysis Article: Jordan vs. Mingo Reply with quote

Good morning, gents. I came across an article tweeted by NFL Philosophy that caught my attention: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-olbs-dion-jordan-and-barkevious-mingo

I have watched tape of both these prospects, as many have, and attempted to put on my scouting hat and critique their respective abilities. Mingo definitely flashes a more explosive pass rushing ability, but like many, I couldn't get past Jordan's intriguing versatility. Sometimes we need an outside opinion to sway our belief and that's exactly what this article did.

I am now not only sold on Mingo as a prospect, but have a new appreciation for his abilities after going back to the tape. I apologize that I waited until draft week to post this, but I hope this helps some get a new appreciation for Mingo.
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sandwhich


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, but this article told me nothing new and swayed me none. I'm still happy with both bu prefer Jordan.
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rdelaney89


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the majority of us would say we want Jordan but we don't think he will be there at 9. Mingo is just the next one on the list.
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jetsmarine26


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize I linked the brief, not the full article. There was a link to get to the rest of it. I edited my initial post to reflect the full one.
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xenajets


Joined: 31 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetsmarine26 wrote:
I apologize I linked the brief, not the full article. There was a link to get to the rest of it. I edited my initial post to reflect the full one.


I honestly would love either. I think Mingo will be there at 9 or 13 though whereas Jordan will be gone unfortunately!!!!!
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sandwhich


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read it. Was a good read and I enjoyed the specific video moments to back up his claims. I hate to be a jerk, but still it's nothing new to me.

One dispute I had was that he called Jordan out on not pushing the pocket. It seems to be more of a role problem and not a player problem, but I could be wrong.

I also liked that he showed Jordan does have some natural ability as a pass rusher and can develop into one easily, because a lot of people here have said otherwise.

I still stand firm. Happy with both, but prefer Jordan. He just seems to have his head on straight, while Mingo just sort of flies around. And Jordan is easily the better tackler.
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rampantjet


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think both of these guys can develop into dominant pass rushers in the right scheme and with hard work.

How i see their ceilings is: Jordan can be maybe an 8-10 sack a year guy who drops back in coverage sometimes, and is solid everywhere.
Mingo if he maximizes his game can be a 12-15 sack guy who mainly rushes the passer and causes mayhem in the backfield.

Remember those are the absolute ceilings if everything goes right, so it is just a matter of what our team needs more which imo is a pure pass rusher.
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jetskid007


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything they said. Here's one of my theories regarding Mingo in a sense that many should be able to understand...

As unconventional as this sounds, I think the fact that Mingo didn't produce as much as we would've liked in his role at LSU will be a better indicator of how to use him in the NFL. Mingo has never had an issue with being a hard worker, having a high motor, or a good student, but teams drafting Mingo will know how they can use him and how they can't. If your a team drafting Mingo, you need to let him be a pursuit player who plays the stand up "WLB" position where he can make plays in the backfield. DO NOT use him as an edge setter (although from what I've seen I think he has skill to anchor in the future if he bulks up), let him do some zone drops (he showed he's capable of doing this in 2012), and by all means do not use him as a "read and react" player the way LSU used him in 2012 because clearly that's not what fits his skill set.

It's almost comparable to Darren McFadden and his inability in the zone blocking scheme. Injuries aside, he has proved to us that he is one of the most dangerous players in the NFL when running behind a power(man) blocking scheme, just look at 2010 and 2011 as proof. Then look at how he operated in 2008, 2009, and 2012 behind zone blocking lines. It's a unique situation because we often think that elite players should be able to fit in any system, but it simply isn't the case. McFadden is a player who is built to hit the hole and go, the equivalent to a pass rusher "pinning his ears back". In the ZBS, he's asked to play a more patient style of football - read the gaps in the line and then find the seam - and it clearly hasn't done him well. Mingo is the same type of prospect except on the opposite side of the football: he's is a freakishly athletic pass rusher and his speed should be utilized on every play. When you ask him to read and react like LSU did in 2012, he's not going to put up the numbers and splash plays you expect. You allow him to use his speed and God-given abilities from the 2-point stance and he'll create "blow up plays" in the backfield against RBs and QBs. His strength is underrated, but he's the type of player that generates power through his agility. When he's used in the 5-tech role from a 3-point stance, he's not going to do much besides contain or "eat" blockers - he can't generate the power that he's capable of from this stance. LSU rarely took advantage of his ability as a playmaker in 2012, rather used him as an edge setter and a decoy for much of the season. It was criminal.
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kilahchris


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetskid007 wrote:
I agree with everything they said. Here's one of my theories regarding Mingo in a sense that many should be able to understand...

As unconventional as this sounds, I think the fact that Mingo didn't produce as much as we would've liked in his role at LSU will be a better indicator of how to use him in the NFL. Mingo has never had an issue with being a hard worker, having a high motor, or a good student, but teams drafting Mingo will know how they can use him and how they can't. If your a team drafting Mingo, you need to let him be a pursuit player who plays the stand up "WLB" position where he can make plays in the backfield. DO NOT use him as an edge setter (although from what I've seen I think he has skill to anchor in the future if he bulks up), let him do some zone drops (he showed he's capable of doing this in 2012), and by all means do not use him as a "read and react" player the way LSU used him in 2012 because clearly that's not what fits his skill set.

It's almost comparable to Darren McFadden and his inability in the zone blocking scheme. Injuries aside, he has proved to us that he is one of the most dangerous players in the NFL when running behind a power(man) blocking scheme, just look at 2010 and 2011 as proof. Then look at how he operated in 2008, 2009, and 2012 behind zone blocking lines. It's a unique situation because we often think that elite players should be able to fit in any system, but it simply isn't the case. McFadden is a player who is built to hit the hole and go, the equivalent to a pass rusher "pinning his ears back". In the ZBS, he's asked to play a more patient style of football - read the gaps in the line and then find the seam - and it clearly hasn't done him well. Mingo is the same type of prospect except on the opposite side of the football: he's is a freakishly athletic pass rusher and his speed should be utilized on every play. When you ask him to read and react like LSU did in 2012, he's not going to put up the numbers and splash plays you expect. You allow him to use his speed and God-given abilities from the 2-point stance and he'll create "blow up plays" in the backfield against RBs and QBs. His strength is underrated, but he's the type of player that generates power through his agility. When he's used in the 5-tech role from a 3-point stance, he's not going to do much besides contain or "eat" blockers - he can't generate the power that he's capable of from this stance. LSU rarely took advantage of his ability as a playmaker in 2012, rather used him as an edge setter and a decoy for much of the season. It was criminal.


You are speaking gospel. Great Analysis of Mingo.
I think Rex Ryan will know how to utilize him best.
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sharpy


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sold. First pick!
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skrILL


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I can't think of a better team for Mingo to land on than the Jets. He is literally tailor-made for Rex's blitz-heavy defense.
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green24


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skrILL wrote:
Honestly, I can't think of a better team for Mingo to land on than the Jets. He is literally tailor-made for Rex's blitz-heavy defense.

Yes. I don't think there is a better player-coach fit in this draft than Mingo and Rex.
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skrILL


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
skrILL wrote:
Honestly, I can't think of a better team for Mingo to land on than the Jets. He is literally tailor-made for Rex's blitz-heavy defense.
Yes. I don't think there is a better player-coach fit in this draft than Mingo and Rex.

Bradley/Chip and Jordan is another great one but yeah he is a great scheme fit and has immense potential.

I would also love to see Star end up on the Texans somehow. Perfect 1-gap NT for Wade Phillips.
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green24


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skrILL wrote:
green24 wrote:
skrILL wrote:
Honestly, I can't think of a better team for Mingo to land on than the Jets. He is literally tailor-made for Rex's blitz-heavy defense.

Yes. I don't think there is a better player-coach fit in this draft than Mingo and Rex.

Bradley/Chip and Jordan is another great one but yeah he is a great scheme fit and has immense potential.

I would also love to see Star end up on the Texans somehow. Perfect 1-gap NT for Wade Phillips.

Cyprien and Rex is also a great fit. Very Happy
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quietjetsket


Joined: 20 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
skrILL wrote:
Honestly, I can't think of a better team for Mingo to land on than the Jets. He is literally tailor-made for Rex's blitz-heavy defense.

Yes. I don't think there is a better player-coach fit in this draft than Mingo and Rex.


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