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kethnaab's NT evaluations
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9796
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: kethnaab's NT evaluations Reply with quote

I care about the ability to defend vs. the double team, I care about anchor and 2-gap, I care about hand use and collapsing the pocket vs. 2 guys. Ball awareness and quickness are less important, movement off the snap and conditioning *are* important though

Star Lotulelei


games watched
Arizona
UW
USC
BYU



Lines up as 1-tech or 0-tech in Utah's 3-4 most often
sometimes stunts outside to opposite B gap

+ good pad level allows him to absorb double teams and give little to no ground
+ when lined head up on OG, uses a decent overhand swim to penetrate quickly
+ generates movement vs. double team to slowly collapse pocket, keeps hands and feet moving, very effective
+ when left 1v1 on the center, walks him back to QB on skates
+ ragdolls OL with violent push/pull, almost humorous when you watch it (man vs. boy)
+ solid vs. zone stretch, gets enough penetration vs. double team to extend zone stretch and force it into the backfield or force the runner into a cutback lane that may not exist
+ consistently forces big traffic jams in the middle of the field
+ capable of shedding double team and making tackle
+ constantly embarrassed Khaled Holmes, forced multiple bad snaps/fumbles, ragdolled him all over the field. Kiffen should've been slapped for allowing it to happen as often as it did
+ Consistent with pad level, when he keeps it low, he's the irresistable force
+ sick ability vs. zone stretch to peentrate the center, move down the line laterally, keeping shoulders square, and throw off the 2nd OL to make the tackle
+ sheds effortlessly

+/- lined up occasionally as 3-technique but automatically drew the double team regardless of stance or position
+/- sometimes gives up his numbers, but usuallly is quick to get his hands up


- very little pass rush pressure generated
- on the occasions he was used as a 5-tech, was rather ineffective
- not a particularly effective gap shooter

more of a young Casey Hampton/Vince Wilfork, less of a Haloti Ngata

if he falls to 1.17, the Steelers would be foolish not to take him. I honestly cannot picture 1 other guy being worth more to the Steelers than Lotulelei

rewatching these games reminded me why I had him #1 overall before his supposed heart issues
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9796
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesse Williams

games watched
LSU
Texas A&M
Tennessee
Arkansas (2011)

lines up all over the defensive line in both an odd and even front, lacks the length to be anything other than an NT for us


+ very good shedding, a violent push-pull, very effective, able to pull it off against double teams as well, will help generate logjam in middle of field
+ decent swim move to go along with obvious bull rush, even shows balance to pull off a spin
+ stunts aggressively in the occasion that he is asked to do so
+ much more effective in an odd front @ NT
+ example of him at his best: fantastic play against LSU, push/pull/ragdolled the OG and swam over the center, forced an errant pass to wide open WR
+ rare to see NT chase RB 20 yards downfield to the sideline and not come off the field immediately - this has implications against zone stretch, no-huddle, and quick-huddle teams as his conditioning allows him to maintain his effectiveness level
+ breaks into backfield and pursues down the line - some of the best hand fighting/shedding you'll see


+/- very aggressive with hands, might need to watch hands to face in NFL
+/- lined up as a slanted 3-tech sometimes and generated moderate pressure, but isn't quick enough off the snap to be a truly effective 3-tech
+/- great ball awareness in pass rush, jumps up to get hands in the way of the lane...DUDE, YOU'RE SHORT, STOP JUMPING!!!

- not always quick off the snap, that keeps him from being a 1st rounder (in my eyes)
- doesnt' always keep shoulders square, easily coachable but shows that he is still learning the game
- sometimes gets a bit too low and ends up face down, sometimes gives up his numbers
- not a sure-handed tackler, stubby arms don't help in this respect

when he keeps his pad level good and gets his hands up, he's an absolute monster. This is an easily coached thing and his conditioning and work ethic will enable him to show drastic improvement in a short time in this respect. When asked to do everything for 'bama, wasn't that effective. When he lined up as a 2-gap NT, he got the job done, point blank.

Coaching will get him to keep his pad level consistent, will keep him square to the line of scrimmage, and our system is an ideal fit for his skillset. I'd be fine grabbing him in the 2nd as long as we grab a playmaker in the 1st. The biggest thing he has over the competition is his conditioning, which will keep us from getting gouged vs. the cutblocking/no huddle/zone stretch teams, who wore Big Snack out and forced him to seek oxygen. That said, I do NOT think he'll be effective in any scheme which requires him to make plays himself. He is a pure block absorber. He is Pat Williams, not Kevin Williams. He is Casey Hampton with good conditioning, middling pad level, and a less developed snap anticipation
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9796
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonathan Hankins

games watched
Michigan State
UCF
Michigan
PSU
Nebraska
California

lined up as 1, 3, 5--techniques, left and right DT in even front, all over in odd front; most effective as a 3-technique and 5-technique to be honest

Hankins is the polar opposite of Jesse Williams. I'm not sure he's a 3-4 NT fit for us AT ALL, but he would be an ideal NT for a Philips system. He is as much a 3-tech as he is a 1-tech, but I just don't see him as a 0-tech. He's a penetrator and uses his explosiveness off the snap (Which eclipses Star at times) rather than his hand fighting technique


+ great explosion off the snap
+ good ball awareness, drives from 3-tech position and sheds/tackles with ease
+ polished swim and push/pull
+ demonstrates remarkable quickness from the 3-tech position, penetrating, shedding, and pursuing down LoS against RB screen
+ when he keeps his pad level down, his explosiveness off the snap enabled him to practically launch OG into air backward. Rather impressive (look around for about 14 minutes remaining in 2nd QTR vs. Michigan St)
+ heavy 2-hand punch to initiate bullrush, knocks OT/OG back and forces them to reset and reanchor 2 yards into backfield
+ actually covered in short flats against TE on a few occasions after taking a chip block, demonstrated surprising awareness on these plays
+ inside stunt was so effective sometimes he'd draw "holding" penalties (i.e. the OT had to dive and trip him up by the feet)
+ pursues aggressively to sideline on stretch plays after coming off block successfully

+/- possesses power to drive 2 men into the backfield when his somewhat inconsistent pad level is ideal
+/- inconsistent vs. double team, sometimes held ground, othertimes turned shoulder, lost his anchor, and got driven and uprooted from his gap

- sometimes tries to do a spin move. Looks like Jupiter rotating on its' axis...SLLLOOOOWWWW......
- fatigues and gets lazy with his pad level, and he becomes JaG
- seems to sacrifice leverage when forced to move laterally vs. zone stretches


with Hankins, it's all about his energy levels. When he's energetic and hasn't tired out, he's dominant as a 3-technique. He is violent with his push/pull, coordinated with his swim, and aggressive in his pursuit. When he's tired, his pad level sucks, and he becomes irrelevant. I don't see a place on the Steelers' team for him. He's a 3-technique or possibly a 5-technique or 1-technique for a Philips system. He'd make a pretty good LDE for Pete Carroll as well, in that he's a big ole' beast like Red Bryant but unlike Bryant, he can generate a solid pass rush.

which obviously means that who we will draft at 1.17
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kethnaab


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Posts: 9796
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sylvester Williams

games watched
Virginia
Maryland
NC St
VaTech
Clemson (2011)

+ very quick swim and push/pull, comfortable and well-balanced when using them, even pretty well coordinated spin. strong rip (not used all that often strangely enough)
+ pretty good anticipation of the snap, really fires off the ball
+ when asked to do nothing but penetrate, he was extremely effective at it, beating the OG off the snap and at the PoA with a surprisingly well developed repertoire of pass rush moves
+ good balance and base, quick hands
+ at his best (vs. Va) bullrushed and shed OG, spun away from OT, pursued QB to other side of field forcing errant throw

+/- maintains pretty good pad level, but when the OG meets his contact, doesn't really drive his legs to push the pocket
+/- he's a one trick pony but it's a pretty darn good trick, he fires off the ball extremely well and torpedos into the backfield with a variety of pass rushing moves, but he isn't that great of a run stopper and he left his anchor at home
+/- interestingly enough, got away with an old-school headslap/club on at least 4 occasions that I saw. I smiled. Smile
+/- sometimes shows surprising quicks and agility to avoid cut blocks and move down LoS, other times looks like he is allergic to lateral movement: with big chubbies like this, is frequently tied to conditioning and fatigue

- does not anchor well enough against the single-team let alone the double team
- not as agile as one might assume from measurables, somewhat heavy-footed actually
- ball awareness not ideal
- when lined up against a double team, showed no anchor vs. run and got no push vs. pass
- pad level is just too high to maintain anchor, he initiates contact low but then tends to pop up
- at his worst (far too often): got turned by single OL in run game

pure 4-3 DT only. He isn't a 3-4 NT by any stretch, even for a Philips type team. He's a pure 3-technique. I don't even see him as a 1-technique in a 4-3

honestly, I watch him play and I see Ziggy Hood with better hands and lesser conditioning/motor. All penetrator, no anchor. Sad


EDIT - ok, read that he had a bum ankle, so perhaps that is the problem as his anchor was surprisingly weak for a big strong guy
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Jenkins

games watched
Bama
GaTech
South Cakalackey
Auburn

supposedly, Jenkins has dropped about 20 lbs of blubber from his frame and is down to the 330s. I can see this helping IMMENSELY because so much of his issue stems from obvious fatigue and poor conditioning

+ frequently lined up as a 5-technique, has pretty good length and quicks for a guy his size
+ quick enough feet to avoid cut blocks; downright nimble feet early in the game and earlier during drives before he tires; oddly enough, Auburn was the only team that seemed to land cut blocks on him, no idea why
+ explosively fast in pursuit down LoS from 5-technique spot, picking through traffic and avoiding cut blocks with quick feet and quick hands
+ really uses his hands well and extends his arms to keep blockers away from his numbers (and his knees)
+ will pursue ball carrier to the sideline and not give up as much ground as one might assume from his 345-lb frame
+ can split double team and generate pressure

+/- hand use is inconsistent. When he gets his punch off first, he does a good job knocking the OL back a step, but that happens less often than it should
+/-uses push/pull and bullrush fairly consistently, almost exclusively, which for a 5-tech could be good. Surprised I didn't see a more consistent swim as he's a pretty tall cat and when he used it, it was effective

- really demonstrates an inconsistent anchor especially vs. double teams
- inconsistent balance, causes him to get driven by even single teams at times
- has a tendency to pop off and expose his numbers off the snap, gets driven by single blocker in these instances
- in short yardage situations, would line up as 1-tech or 0-tech; frequently ineffective in these situations
- surprisingly blocked rather easily at times by inferior players of inferior size

not a NT. If he really did drop 20 lbs, I see a Ngata-style dominant 5-technique. I'm totally torn as to whether I'd draft him in the 2nd, as his conditioning will play so heavily (ahem) into his effectiveness. I don't see a NT at all in him though. Once he gets tired, he becomes an absolute liability
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Gatoradus


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Location: Virginia Beach, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesse williams and Star evaluations sound about right. Obviously I like Jesse Williams more mainly due to his versatility to play in passing downs and different schemes. Way I see it, its a better odd of us landing C.Patterson/T. Eifert/D. Hopkins(hopeful!) Then Jesse Williams in 2nd than star in 1st and then... sudden 2nd round wide receiver isn't so sexy.
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jebrick


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Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fovorite play from Jessie Williams was in the NCG where he put a hand on the OG and the other on the center and held position until he located the ball. Then he push/pulled the OG and shed the OC to get in on the play.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Based off Kethy's evaluations, if we landed Eifert/Hopkins in round 1 and then Jesse Williams in round 2, Trevardo Williams round 3, and Bostic in round 4 Id be pretty happy.

Last edited by at23steelers on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

didn't read it all....

but looks like you put a lot of work into this keth.

Good job!!!
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual, excellent stuff keth.

Really applaud the effort.

I thought your Jesse Williams write up was going to be brutal on him, but it seems fair and accurate.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
As usual, excellent stuff keth.

Really applaud the effort.

I thought your Jesse Williams write up was going to be brutal on him, but it seems fair and accurate.


Applause Applause Applause Applause I think dis dude is from the future doe!!
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9796
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the kudos gents. It wasn't work though, it was just me watching football with an analytic eye. Smile
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keth, your write ups are amazing. After I get done reading them I go back and rewatch games. Like Lemonier never noticed that till you mentioned it.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9796
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
Like Lemonier never noticed that till you mentioned it.


when you obsessively overanalyze football games for decades, certain things jump out at you. Razz
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steelers75


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: draft Reply with quote

good write ups keth.
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